Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

No, I've seen a towny do it several times with eerie success and I've tried to break the pattern as scum.

Your scumteam's vote-twinning theories are rubbish and won't win you the game.

Now on to the much anticipated torture of your scumpal springlullaby.

[DrippingGoofball]

Shallow understanding = I've played with someone who does votal analysis often and that's one of the most upheld ideas.

ie, I didn't make it up.

Heck I don't even know why it happens, just that it's really hard to break the habit.

The only thing I understand about your so-called votal analysis is that scum don't vote one after the other, which is a totally invalid assumption.

Please list all the other assumptions you are using.

You may ask your scumpals for answers before you post. We're sure to find it more amusing that way.

[DrippingGoofball]

Just for the record, if you know what 'leverage' is, you have

none

. You don't come out of a mega-lurking phase asking a bunch of painfully phony questions. You're supposed to provide analyses and opinions so that we can hang you for them, or have mercy on your scrawny little neck.

Reading I don't particularly like how the discussion is centred around NK wifom but a couple of questions first:
@DGB, you are calling Tracey, seastorm and me scum. Why are you voting for Amrun?

I HAVEN'T DECIDED AND IF IT KEEPS HER POSTING, WHY NOT.

@Amrun, so your reasoning is that Tracey is scum because DGB is alive. But then why should Tracey kill Tammy, she had a town read on Tracey too.

USELESS QUESTION. THE ANSWER IS SELF-EVIDENT.

@Camn, I haven't caught your reason to vote for Traceylyn, can you explain again.

ISO CAMN, IT'S THERE.

@Brandi, same question to you. What do you agree with in Amrun's case?

USELESS QUESTION. DO NOT WASTE HER TIME.

@Fujiko, what information have you gained from your vote on DGB?

USELESS QUESTION. YOU SHE WANTS A FLIP OF ME.

@Seastorm, can you explain in two sentence why you are voting Sucrose?

USELESS QUESTION. I'M TRYING TO GRILL HER SLIPPERY EEL.

Now that your pretending-to-scumhunt with worthless questions is taken care of, please supply us with reads on every one currently alive, and with exquisitely elaborate detail. That's your punishment for insulting us with your continued lurking. You have 24 hours to deliver.

And, in token of encouragement,

VOTE: springlullaby

[springlullaby]

DGB, I like you and all but I do not see your attempt at hijacking my questionning as town.

1) If you are town, please do get out of my way. Since you seem eager to know my reads, you answering in place of other and preventing me from in the place of other is counter productive.
If you are scum, am I threatening your control of the game? I do tend to have that effect so you pretty much will have to NK me, I'm afraid.

2) I also warn you, please do not use the collective "us", I'm not a kid you can bully around and it pisses me off.

I can accept the criticism about lurking, and I will do my best to catch up, but you do not get to paint me as 'insulting'. So yes, this is my notice to you that I will do this in my own time and own way, and that you cutting my questionning when I'm trying to establish reads, then voting me is noted.

Because I do want to believe that you are town, I will write your reply to my current post for you: Ok, let's see what you've got, and yes no one is exempted from answering her questions.
Thank you.

[springlullaby]

I HAVEN'T DECIDED AND IF IT KEEPS HER POSTING, WHY NOT.

.

I can accept that. The thing I find most scummy with you today is you have gone on for quite a long time with the NK.
a) I'm of the opinion that trying to outguess the NK is pointless and it is actually playing the scum game because obviously NK are a way for scum to manipulate the game that town has no control over.
b) I can't remember if it's usual for you to be outguessing NK so much.

But then there is the disconnect between your suspicions and the people you are voting for.
On the other hand I think it is ok to pressure people, even though I don't particularly your post directed toward me.
So yes, I'd like you to make your thought process clearer.

[DrippingGoofball]

You've had tons of time to establish reads.

My thought processes are extremely clear and out in the open.

Your thought processes on the other hand, have been obscured by chronic lurkage.

You have not delivered reads on everyone alive.

Vote stays.

[Eidolon]

Hi girls. I know i haven't been active. terribly sorry. i'll hopefully have a post soon.

[TraceyLyn11]

Post later tonight if I have time.

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 3 - 6

• TraceyLyn11

  (4) (Amrun - PiggyGal15 - Brandi - camn)
  
  
  DrippingGoofball
  (3) (TraceyLyn11 - Fujiko - Huntress)
  
  
  Huntress
  (1) (Sucrose)
  
  
  Sucrose
  (1) (Seastormjt)
  
  
  springlullaby
  (1) (DrippingGoofball)
  
  
  Amrun
  (0) (

  DrippingGoofball

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (2) (springlullaby - Eidolon)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.

Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-11-06 20:10:00)

[Sucrose]

Sucrose: Right, the Sucrose hammer was sort of suspicious to me. I mentioned that I like to wait for people to talk, which was why I didn't vote Telo. I'm used to 120 hour days and I've seen wagons build or dissolve in a matter of hours -- Heck I've seen an entire day start and end in an hour. What I didn't like about Sucrose's hammer was that Telo had still wanted to post reads, iirc, and not letting her give them feels a lot like she was trying to silence a scummate. She talks about how Telo was caught scum, but I'm not sure how she knew Telo was scum before the hammer. I've been giving Sucrose a town-read because of the vig soft-claim, but honestly the way she changes her mind on the kill makes it pretty clear that's not the case.
Light scum.

Okay, in this very same post, you acknowledge that scum has daytalk, yet you still accuse me of being scum trying to shut up Telo. Like I've said before, I hammered Telo because she was either scum or so anti-town that she should have been lynched immediately. If she was town after that, I would have put her on personal blacklist. But, it turned out to just be scum-nonsense, so no foul on Telo's part. I

still

don't understand why people think scum would try and shut up their partners, even if there wasn't daytalk. Telo was playing bad, but not that bad. What, do you think scum might think she would throw the game? I don't think so. Anyone should know that anything caught-scum says is going to be pure unadulterated WIFOM, and scum probably know this too.

And why do you choose to comment on the Day 2 vig issue now, rather than when it was happening? You make it sound like you've come to this conclusion on your own, but your opinion is an exact duplicate of DGB's theory/confusion, to the letter. I know this is OMGUS, but I've seen other players attack me, and I thought they were being genuine. I don't think that with you. And that's not even mentioning the following posts where you back all this all up by saying you can use the lynch to get info, on nonsense "votal analysis" reasoning, but that's been discussed.

This is interesting given that she wasn't on the Telo wagon, and wasn't strongly predicting Telo was scum, just that she was "okay with the lynch" followed by the quoted post.

Spring also quasi-defends Telo in her first post that mentions her, #177. She's a scum-read, but "only redeeming feature is that she reads as if she's not all there." This comment also came

after

Eidolon had said that Telo was "out of the loop." Spring later describes Piggy and Telo together as "derp and more derp."

I'll wait for Spring to respond to this.

I don't really see what I can respond to. Telo didn't make sense either way, but given the amount of wtf I was ok to lynch her either way. It's true I never felt deeply convinced Telo was scum though,

plus I think Brandi was on that wagon too.

What do you mean by the bolded part?

And why on earth would you be equally willing to lynch a player that you merely thought was out of it?

! Isn't legitimately being baffled a town trait? Hell, that's why Telo was faking it in the first place! You said yourself it was a "redeeming feature," AKA the thing that made you doubt your scumread. And now you're saying you actually had been okay to lynch her over it. First it made you leery of lynching her, now it's equally one of the reasons you wanted to lynch her.

And Telo's posts weren't at all what I'd call "WTF," just confused and then scummy. Telo's play was not nearly erratic as you make it out to have been.

[Brandi]

Happy (belated?) Birthday, Brandi!

Aw~ Thank you!
And thanks to Fuji as well. <3


Spring doesn't seem to have the best attitude in response to DGB's postings, but the way she's wording things doesn't seem to indicative of scum to me. She seems legitimately peev'd that someone would discount her questions- though DGB does have good points regarding them.

I still like my vote on Tracey.

[Brandi]

ebwop: MY end quote tag disappeared! D: mod fix please! <3

[Fujiko]

@Fujiko, what information have you gained from your vote on DGB?

So far, two pages of reactions and counting.

[Huntress]

When did Tammy call Sucrose town

apart from in

her first thoughts at the beginning of the game

, and

during the period she thought Sucrose was vig

? Her only other comment on her was in post 578, where she expressed doubts about her.

You've answered the question yourself.

Your statement in post 936 implies that Tammy was continually calling Sucrose town. She wasn't. She had expressed suspicion of her and the only time she called her town in day two was over the vig thing, as you did yourself. So I'm asking you to back up your statement with facts.

Huntress has been asking for this: I feel like you've been asking questions, but you haven't actually talked about what they mean or looked at the answers (Fujiko, Eidolon), which makes me feel like you're asking questions for the sake of asking questions and looking involved in the game. You don't actually react to the answers, which makes me feel like you don't care about the answers, which makes those questions fluff, which means that you've been fluff posting most of your posts.

You've said something like this before. I asked you in post 430 whether you had anything particular in mind and repeated the request in post 583 together with another question, but you didn't reply so I suspect you didn't really want to know. I ask questions to help me determine reads of people. If necessary I follow them up as I have done in a few cases but otherwise I just take the answers into consideration and chase up the non-answers. If you want to know more you only have to ask.

Huntress: A lot of people are saying Huntress was white-knighting Telo, but I don't quite agree, and I really don't like how she tries to back off the wagon while still saying "Oh, yeah, I still have a mild scumread on her, yeah."

My stance on Telo never changed from when I stated it in posts 457 and 479. This is pure misrepresentation, similar to your describing my posts as mostly fluff in the previous quote.

Everyone on at the start of the Telo wagon D1 is town.

What makes you so certain?

@ Sucrose: Can I have a reply to this please?


Scum reads at present:

Seastorm - more to say about 1005 but I'd rather see others reply to the bits about them first
DGB - further details to come
Camn

Brandi - for post 1035 among other stuff
Sucrose - but not I think with Seastorm
Piggy
Tracey - still some niggles here

[DrippingGoofball]

Your statement in post 936 implies that Tammy was continually calling Sucrose town. She wasn't. She had expressed suspicion of her and the only time she called her town in day two was over the vig thing, as you did yourself. So I'm asking you to back up your statement with facts.

How many times does a player have to call another player "town" for it to constitute a "fact"? Your assumption that my words implied that Tammy was

continually

calling Sucrose town is preposterous. She did have a reasonably consistent read on Sucrose as evidence by her calling her town twice.

[DrippingGoofball]

Spring doesn't seem to have the best attitude in response to DGB's postings, but the way she's wording things doesn't seem to indicative of scum to me.

She did say she was looking forward to me torturing her, I didn't want to disappoint. Then she gets all upset on me! Whatttupwidat....

[DrippingGoofball]

@Fujiko, what information have you gained from your vote on DGB?

So far, two pages of reactions and counting.

ANALYSE reactions in next post, please.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Huntress:

Please make a detailed case on Brandi, especially what it is that you find scummy in her post 1035, and please list "among other stuff."

If Seastorm is your top scumread, and I'm your second top scumread (or vice-versa, since your vote is on me), do you think I'm bus'ing Seastorm after bus'ing Telo on day 1?

Why is your so-called scum read on camn unsupported?

Please list the Tracey niggles.

[springlullaby]

What do you mean by the bolded part?

And why on earth would you be equally willing to lynch a player that you merely thought was out of it?

!

Isn't legitimately being baffled a town trait? Hell, that's why Telo was faking it in the first place!

You said yourself it was a "redeeming feature," AKA the thing that made you doubt your scumread. And now you're saying you actually had been okay to lynch her over it. First it made you leery of lynching her, now it's equally one of the reasons you wanted to lynch her.

And Telo's posts weren't at all what I'd call "WTF," just confused and then scummy. Telo's play was not nearly erratic as you make it out to have been.

1. I don't understand what you mean in the green above.
2. The bolded part means that the fact that Brandi, who I thought was scum, was voting Telo for a long time, and it factored in why I was meh on Telo.
3. I said that I never felt very convinced Telo was scum, but that at one point her play was so bad that I was willing to lynch her even if I didn't feel convinced she was scum over the risk of her being very bad noob/derp town. Do you find this scummy, why?
4. Actually now that you are asking this, I remember exactly why at one point the balance tipped over for me, it was a popcorn comment she made in during Brandi/me; it was a weird comment and reminded me of Tofu mafia in which Ectomancer(scum) made a popcorn comment too in during an argument involving me (town) and Vi (scum).

I don't think I ever used the word erratic and I don't really understand what you seem to want to pin on me here. My memory of Telo's play was first ramblings that hardly made any sense to me, then repeated mentions of nook, then refusal to claim - all this to such an exaggerated degree I feared she was derpish townie because it didn't make sense for scum. Out of all these items, the only thing I think I found possibly scummy was the popcorn comment.

_____________________________

Actually what, I just reread the part I highlighted in green. Why would you think Telo was

faking it in the first place

? Over her being really bad scum?

[springlullaby]

Sucrose answer the above please.

[springlullaby]

Spring doesn't seem to have the best attitude in response to DGB's postings, but the way she's wording things doesn't seem to indicative of scum to me.

She did say she was looking forward to me torturing her, I didn't want to disappoint. Then she gets all upset on me! Whatttupwidat....

Errr. Are you saying that your post was humour? What, I don't get it.
A question also, are you voting me for lurking or not providing reads?

[springlullaby]

I'd like to get an answer from Amrun and Brandi too. I'd also like to refrlect DGB's question to Fujiko.
I'm here all night.

[Sucrose]

Everyone on at the start of the Telo wagon D1 is town.

What makes you so certain?

@ Sucrose: Can I have a reply to this please?

I already answered this. I have fairly strong town-reads on the first three players (possible exception of Piggy, but still fairly town on her) and the fact that all those players were on at the beginning of the Telo wagon helps confirm that they're town, and that Telo wasn't being bussed early on.

What do you mean by the bolded part?

And why on earth would you be equally willing to lynch a player that you merely thought was out of it?

!

Isn't legitimately being baffled a town trait? Hell, that's why Telo was faking it in the first place!

You said yourself it was a "redeeming feature," AKA the thing that made you doubt your scumread. And now you're saying you actually had been okay to lynch her over it. First it made you leery of lynching her, now it's equally one of the reasons you wanted to lynch her.

And Telo's posts weren't at all what I'd call "WTF," just confused and then scummy. Telo's play was not nearly erratic as you make it out to have been.

1. I don't understand what you mean in the green above.
2. The bolded part means that the fact that Brandi, who I thought was scum, was voting Telo for a long time, and it factored in why I was meh on Telo.
3. I said that I never felt very convinced Telo was scum, but that at one point her play was so bad that I was willing to lynch her even if I didn't feel convinced she was scum over the risk of her being very bad noob/derp town. Do you find this scummy, why?
4. Actually now that you are asking this, I remember exactly why at one point the balance tipped over for me, it was a popcorn comment she made in during Brandi/me; it was a weird comment and reminded me of Tofu mafia in which Ectomancer(scum) made a popcorn comment too in during an argument involving me (town) and Vi (scum).

I don't think I ever used the word erratic and I don't really understand what you seem to want to pin on me here. My memory of Telo's play was first ramblings that hardly made any sense to me, then repeated mentions of nook, then refusal to claim - all this to such an exaggerated degree I feared she was derpish townie because it didn't make sense for scum. Out of all these items, the only thing I think I found possibly scummy was the popcorn comment.

_____________________________

Actually what, I just reread the part I highlighted in green. Why would you think Telo was

faking it in the first place

? Over her being really bad scum?

1 and last sentence: Telo was scum faking being confused about the setup and other points in order to gain town-cred. Obviously, being scum, she actually knew how many players there were and how many were scum.
2. Fair enough. Didn't understand what you meant.
3. You never said anything to this effect D1, but okay.
......
Generally these answers here at least make sense.

Hmm.

Unvote, Vote: Seastormjt

[PiggyGal15]

So, I haven't posted in four days... I also haven't really be reading this. I hate wall posts and that's all you people are doing. I tried to read them, you guys all seem to just be running in circles and I don't understand why Tracey hasn't be lynched yet.

[Amrun]

@spring: Your question doesn't make sense. I very clearly don't think Tracey is scum JUST BECAUSE DGB isn't dead, and I already addressed that Tracey had established Tammy as very town. When scum tends to think a player is viewed as town, they end up dead, even if the town doesn't actually view said player as town. Also, scum tend to kill townreads because they have no excuse to push them as further lynches.