The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[pidgey]

If hes thirdmparty he still had no reason to just claim like that and if thats the case we can still go along with his play??

One question, why did you decided to target thor? Yah "he is thor". But why in that moment of the day when greyice was l-1

[Zdenek]

Day one lynches are crapshoots to begin with and we've got a guilty on Thor. Frankly, I don't care if the game is bastard, lynching Thor is by far the best play that we have.

Next, the GreyICE wagon was somewhat a counter-wagon to Kimor/Thor. A Thor scum-flip means that GreyICE is less likely to be scum. Similarly, guilty on Thor means that GreyICE is less likely to be scum. GreyICE is a straight-up shitty lynch today. Of course, the value of this argument goes down if it's multi-scum.

This Seer argument from CKD is one of the worst in the thread, and the fact that he is trying to use it to discredit Klick, makes me want him dead, but that's for later.

This is an point that's worth keeping in mind:

(Hint for you non-themers, the big bad villain of the second book was an FBI agent who had a belt who turned him into a werewolf. Day cop, night kill?)

It fits really nicely, and well including a role with that flavor might be irresistible. I mean, I still think that Klick is town, but if this multiscum, Klick certainly wouldn't be cleared by Thor scum flip. I generally find the flavor arguments to be weak, but that is just *so cute*.

The GreyICE flip will produce more information in terms of who voted where and why.

So, why not just flip Thor and look at wagons on GreyICE and Kimor/Thor? Sure, it's more meaningful if they are both flipped, but with a guilty on Thor, there's a rsonable chance that we'll be looking at at GreyICE town-flip and a Thor scum-flip.

Huh, sorry I have heared that Klick likes to gamble.

Unvote

Vote: Thor

Sorry Klick, I should perhaps taken you serious from the beginning.

Where did you hear that Klick/Kondi likes to gamble?
What changed your mind?

I have a killing ability as well. Thor will die tonight.

Holy fuck. Considering the possible scum-roles in the game, I'd be shocked if your kill went through. We should still be lynching Thor.

Ugh. After thinking it over, I'm taking back my town read on Klick. His having a night kill just doesn't mesh well with me. I'm almost thinking third party.

unvote;

How is that relevant to the truth of his claim?

[ICEninja]

It fits really nicely, and well including a role with that flavor might be irresistible. I mean, I still think that Klick is town, but if this multiscum, Klick certainly wouldn't be cleared by Thor scum flip. I generally find the flavor arguments to be weak, but that is just *so cute*.

Holy shit, I even mentioned Agent Dalton earlier in the thread, saying I'd give Dalton either Billy or Georgia as a fake claim because they're both wolf-motif characters if I was designing this game. I can't believe I didn't think of this. It would also explain why Klick was so hesitant to go in to detail about his claim, because it might be on the weak side.

This makes an unbelievable amount of sense.

But at the same time...guilty on Thor. For a day 1 lynch. God dammit.

Thor's flip will be very telling for both Grey's alignment and Klick's. I say we go through with it, and deal with Klick/CKD/GreyICE tomorrow.

[Thor665]

@ICE - please explain to me again how Klick's play looks scummy at all?

@ABR - your buddying is appreciated. You still should die.

[Konowa]

Vote: Thor665

I'm thinking too hard about this.

[curiouskarmadog]

KLICK ANSWER THESE DAMN QUESTIONS...BOLDING AND CAPS SO YOU DONT MISS THEM AGAIN.

looks like you missed answering this question klick.

Klick, if you have a kill ability, why come out? you could have crumbed it (for later use) killed thor..and kept on going without anyone knowing.

also i dont see where you answered this question either..

WHEN during the day did you decide you wanted to investigate thor....and when did you submit your request to do so.

[Thor665]

@Konowa - your read on ABR. Go!

@CKD - true/false - you have a town read on me (and why, for either reply)

[Konowa]

If you flip scum, I think likelyhood of ABR being scum increases. His early sitting on Kimor played to me, had strong gut read on Kimor but couldn't extrapolate. Timing of switch bothers me. Can't really read ABR as he hasn't really said anything about anyone outside of Kimor, Klick, and you.

[Thor665]

You did notice he called me town before he actually called me town though, right?
Read on that?

[Konowa]

I'm getting too far into the Bordeaux here. ABR was set all day on Kimor, but now has town read on Thor?

[Thor665]

And, honestly, if he sat on this slot off 'strong gut' that makes his comment even more scumworthy.

And the town read is almost normal, the town read via slip is pretty gakked though.

[curiouskarmadog]

@

@CKD - true/false - you have a town read on me (and why, for either reply)

WTF??...I dont have any read on you...I dont believe someone with Klick "power" would claim day 1....it doesnt make any sense, I want to know the timing...I kind of think that Klick was trying to protect grey....and it seems to be working...why would someone with a kill ability AND day cop, come out? he could have killed him tonight and kept going and no one would have fucking known.

if grey flips scum, klick will die tomorrow....

if Klick is town, I never going to join another god damn game with him again.

also note how he is avoiding my question...if he really believed that you were scum, he would answer the questions...fuck he would be voting you....NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE.

[Konowa]

Thor, you lost me. "Town read via slip". What post are you referring to?

[Shmugen]

Consider the following: Klick is a member of an otherwise strong scumteam and feels like the weakest link. A player is replaced by Thor, who for the purposes of this example is town. Klick sees a way to perhaps take care of Thor at little to no cost to self, if exposed as scum Klick felt like the weak link anyway.

P.edit:

@CKD - Calm down, dude.

[jasonT1981]

Aren't warewolves, you know... usually NOT town alligned?

[Shmugen]

Jason, how many games do you play in the 'theme' genre?

[Thor665]

WTS??...I dont have any read on you...I dont believe someone with Klick "power" would claim day 1....it doesnt make any sense, I want to know the timing...I kind of think that Klick was trying to protect grey....and it seems to be working...why would someone with a kill ability AND day cop, come out? he could have killed him tonight and kept going and no one would have Smurfing known.

I'll agree the Grey wagon is being overlooked for this action - but other than that I don't really see the scum gain value there.
Explain his scum motivation to me again.
Also, if you think he's scum...you don't have an opinion about the guy he's running this crazed gambit on? Tell me more.

@Shmugen - Important question, do you think Klick sees himself as a weak link? Also, has he exactly come under much pressure? Thus far everyone has been showing up and mumbling that he looked town to them previously...

@Konowa - the ABR interactions with me last page (y'know, forever ago...when I claimed he slipped) Look at it again. he says he'll lynch Klick tomorrow. There are two presumptions made by saying that.

1. Klick (a claimed Cop/Vig) will be alive tomorrow.
2. Thor will flip town - because if Thor flips scum...um, kinda dumb to want to lynch Klick at that stage

Then gain wisdom.
Also - read m0ar.

[Shmugen]

No, he hasn't come under much pressure other than some early policy lynch talk. I don't think what I put forward is entirely probable, hence why I haven't moved my vote, but

maybe

to protect Grey until Grey's replacement could show up?

[Thor665]

Grey would pretty much have to be a wtflolomg power role or have Klick banking on getting 'best replace evah!' in the slot (and, hey, I'm already here)

So I'm going to go with...no.

[Thor665]

Also, if he hasn't come under much pressure...why sac yourself? You're more valuable than busted Grey buddy in that situation. It doesn't add up - also, his claim makes a fair amount of sense to me.

[Shmugen]

Oh you. So you're banking on the sanity then?

[ICEninja]

@ICE - please explain to me again how Klick's play looks scummy at all?

It looks fishy, there's something weird going on here, but I'm not thinking it's Klickscum UNLESS he's scum Agent Dalton, and you are non-Dalton-aligned scum. The name of your flip will be very very informative, I believe. Beyond that, I really can't say. We'll just have to play things out and see what happens.

Alright guys we're running close to deadline. I think we need to finish up this day. Honestly at this point, there is virtually zero town motivation (and plenty of scum motivation) to have your vote on someone other than Thor, Grey, or Klick, as there is no possible lynch outside of these 3. And I haven't seen any argument convincing enough to lynch Klick today, so it's pretty much lynch Grey now and deal with Thor tomorrow (or hope Klick can actually get the shot off...not counting on that) or lynch Thor now and deal with Grey tomorrow. Or Klick, if Thor ends up being innocent.

One thing I'd like to add here is that...Jason will be more likely to be able to use his night action on whoever dies the first night. I don't think there would be much of any use trying to talk to Grey, though. Thor would at least have some good insights. Grey would just fling smurf at me and possibly CKD from the grave.

[ICEninja]

Actually I just had a thought. What if Grey is town all along, and CKD is scum? The way Grey positioned himself as sort of a "its me vs him" situation, if Grey is town and dies day 1 that would look REALLY bad for CKD day 2. I can see scum buddy Klick moving in the way he did to prolong Grey's life which would potentially in turn prolong CKD's life.

It's a stretch though, and it doesn't really change my mind about Thor's lynch. However, I'd say if Thor and Grey both end up town, and either Klick or CKD turns up scum, I'll bet my cowboy hat that the other is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

All I know is that Thor is actively trying to get lynched. This disturbs me.

[greenknight]

No, he hasn't come under much pressure other than some early policy lynch talk. I don't think what I put forward is entirely probable, hence why I haven't moved my vote, but

maybe

to protect Grey until Grey's replacement could show up?

Grey antagonized a bunch of people, got himself wagoned to L-1 and vanished from the thread, if he's scum the likelihood of scum trying a spectacular gambit to save him in that situation is very low.