The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[StefanB]

EDBP: Line about never mention, should be between the post he didn't mention Kortul or me again.

[Tierce]

How serious was 428 Sixty?

What about it? We were quoting GreyICE.

(You are not a scumread.)

[Thor665]

@Konowa - okay, Sixty can be scum.

Thor: Thanks for first serious answer.

I don't think you know how to tell when I'm serious.

BUT THERE IS A COPGUILTY ON YOU. From a slot that is by all logic town and asides from this is bastard I have no reason to disbelief it.

Aside from the water the ocean is not wet.

You are not claiming miller (Yepp, call this rolefishing, I don't care)

I haven't claimed anything yet.
Also, if Kimor hadn't claimed Miller that's probably a good hint as to the chance of me being Miller.

[Sixty]

Ahem. The puppy is cuter than Mazikeen.

How serious was 428 Sixty?

What about it? We were quoting GreyICE.

(You are not a scumread.)

[StefanB]

Thor: Then let me paraphrase: This was the first time that I got the feeling that you were ready to have a normal discusion with me and not just trying to piss me off.
About Bastard: Well there are bastard games and bastard games. I searched yesterday, didn't find anythink about MoI and copsanitys. (Except that he doesn't think Godfather and copsanitys are a sane combo)
I said before that I execpt different thinks than that here. Insane roles but not trollrolles.
I would belive a insane/naive... unlimited nightcop, I have trouble to see the logic of 1-shot daycop sanity ?, without any hint.
Also be realistic, if you have a guilty on a player, without any reason to doubt it, so early in the game, you lynch. This is logic. Even in a bastardgame.

[greenknight]

What he's not done is make a real case as to why Klick's cop result could be invalid; his initial stance was "confirm the sanity is guaranteed and I'll selfvote" and he questioned Klick about the flavour, but suddenly dropped that entire line of inquiry after Klick proceeded to claim vig as well.

1. Actually I have expressed my beliefs as to why the cop claim is incorrect in the results. I have also stated i believe the cop claim...so, yeah, whut?
2. Klick ended up not claiming sanity in any real way, he says he thinks he's sane...because! Show me where I got that wrong and you can have your self-vote. I'm excited about this.

That's klick's sanity flavour claim which you didn't address:

No, it does not say that I'm guaranteed to be sane. However, I feel like the flavor heavily implies that I'm going to be sane in my investigations.
...Yes. There is flavor in the area that it tells me I have them.

I really doubt she has insane wolf senses. MAYBE paranoid, but I seriously doubt it.
...
Alright, I'll paraphrase the flavor for my Daycop. It says that I can use my powered senses along with my psychology skills to my advantage and judge whether someone is town-aligned or not town-aligned.

However, I refuse to full-claim.

1. It isn't? This wagon gets worse and worse - frankly I thought that was about the best logic there was to it, lynch me to learn about Klick - derp. But...I guess it's not...?

2. Well, with everyone commenting on how "bad" Klick's method of play is thus far I would have thought someone wouldn't trust his shot. Giving him a couple of prime targets of preference (*cough*Grey*cough* might be useful for town. What's the worst that happens, scum blocks a Vig everyone is calling derp? Yeah, cry me a river - what will that change besides scum not being up on anyone else?

3. I disagree with this, but at least it's a stance that's less derp than your one earlier in this post where I'd already provided enough reads. Which do you believe more?


Also, what's your read on ABR?

1) No I'm voting you because I think you're more likely to flip scum than Grey. There's a guilty on you, I don't have a compensating town read from your play, and I don't like your predecessor in the slot either. Any relational information on other players' alignments is secondary. Grey's play has been bad and I think he's on the scummy side of neutral, but the case against him is mostly meta. We know he does this posturing and shouting "scum scum scum" at people as town, the question is would he have dropped the act by now if he is. The fact that he hasn't means there's a better than random chance that he could be scum faking it. But there isn't really a smoking gun imo.

2) er... Redirect? Busdrive? The fact that scum can exploit a known target by blocking Klick 100% if his known target is scum and letting the kill through with 50% probability if the target is town? And you think we really need to encourage him to shoot Grey given that he

unvoted you, his guilty result, to vote Grey

?

3) it's the same thing. I don't see a need to push you for more reads. The case on you doesn't hinge on your connections/lack thereof to other players. As for "posterity": if you're scum they're unreliable WIFOM and if you're town you're posting reads without prompting anyway.

And since you ask, I find ABR suspicious due to the abrupt 180 he's pulled on your slot from Kimor being obvscum to you being so town that he will dismiss Klick's claim entirely.

[fatlikepig]

@Thor: Grey is town, ABR is a firm null at the moment.

Will read posts more closely when I get back home today.

[Thor665]

Thor: Then let me paraphrase: This was the first time that I got the feeling that you were ready to have a normal discusion with me and not just trying to piss me off.

I still don't think you know how to tell when i am joking.

I would belive a insane/naive... unlimited nightcop, I have trouble to see the logic of 1-shot daycop sanity ?, without any hint.

From my research into the character - she thinks Harry Dresden is potentially insane - discuss.

Also be realistic, if you have a guilty on a player, without any reason to doubt it, so early in the game, you lynch. This is logic.

Even in a bastardgame

.

Fixed.
You lynch the players it is more worthwhile to lynch. Derp.

That's klick's sanity flavour claim which you didn't address:

No, it does not say that I'm guaranteed to be sane. However, I feel like the flavor heavily implies that I'm going to be sane in my investigations.
...Yes. There is flavor in the area that it tells me I have them.

Wow...

So, you mean you *don't* recall me asking him for the flavor?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4458509
Having him tell me he's not assured sane?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4458510
Having me ask about the flavor?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4458542
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4458574
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4460020
and then coming to a conclusion.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4460043

But, yeah, OTHER THAN THAT I haven't responded to his sanity discussion (or, started it...).
You got me!

1) No I'm voting you because I think you're more likely to flip scum than Grey. There's a guilty on you, I don't have a compensating town read from your play, and I don't like your predecessor in the slot either. Any relational information on other players' alignments is secondary. Grey's play has been bad and I think he's on the scummy side of neutral, but the case against him is mostly meta. We know he does this posturing and shouting "scum scum scum" at people as town, the question is would he have dropped the act by now if he is. The fact that he hasn't means there's a better than random chance that he could be scum faking it. But there isn't really a smoking gun imo.

2) er... Redirect? Busdrive? The fact that scum can exploit a known target by blocking Klick 100% if his known target is scum and letting the kill through with 50% probability if the target is town? And you think we really need to encourage him to shoot Grey given that he

unvoted you, his guilty result, to vote Grey

?

3) it's the same thing. I don't see a need to push you for more reads. The case on you doesn't hinge on your connections/lack thereof to other players. As for "posterity": if you're scum they're unreliable WIFOM and if you're town you're posting reads without prompting anyway.

And since you ask, I find ABR suspicious due to the abrupt 180 he's pulled on your slot from Kimor being obvscum to you being so town that he will dismiss Klick's claim entirely.

1. Okay, so you see this as a solid counterwagon to Grey. Got it.

2. I think he should be given recommendations, yes. Who would you shoot tonight if you could shoot?

3. It's not, but thanks.

@Thor: Grey is town, ABR is a firm null at the moment.

Will read posts more closely when I get back home today.

Did you notice his slip I pointed out multiple times?
I feel like you haven't read anything and just hopped on the new wagon - thoughts?

[Thor665]

Anyone ever watch a wagon build on them based off players who apparently have the memory of goldfish for what they've "read"?

It's sort of an odd mix of funny and annoying at the same time.

[ICEninja]

From my research into the character - she thinks Harry Dresden is potentially insane - discuss.

She doesn't think this until much later in the series. Georgia is actually a quite minor character.

There are other things I could comment on, but it ultimately comes down to things I've already said or "let's just go ahead and lynch Thor already". Which I've already said.

[Thor665]

I was about to ask "how does that matter a hill of beans?" when I glanced at the thread title closer.

Hurm.

Was she accurate early in the series?

[sword_of_omens]

work has been kicking my butt...
catching up now..expect a post in an hour or so...

[greenknight]

So, you mean you *don't* recall me asking him for the flavor?

I said you asked him for the flavour, he gave you the flavour, and then you said "oh I think Klick is town regardless" and dropped it. Which is pretty much what you did. And only now you respond to Stefan talking about the flavour. Why would you not have followed up on Klick with this...

1. Okay, so you see this as a solid counterwagon to Grey. Got it.

ok, so:

Thor says his lynch won't provide any information
I mention at some point that it does
Thor then claims he's being lynched for information
I say I'm voting him because he's scummier than Grey
Thor claims my main motivation is that he's a counterwagon to Grey

This is ridiculous. Pretty sure Thor's going to flip scum and I'm not wasting any further time arguing with him.

[sword_of_omens]

ugh...

Unvote

i'm trying to understand Klick's play here...

@ Klick
2 important questions, please:

1. Why did you claim having a NK, pretty much for no reason?
2. Why did you then throw your vote over to the Grey wagon? (just so you can NK Thor?) Because I don't see you mentioning anywhere that you think Grey is scum.


@Jason..you still didn't answer my question..

Not sure of Swords vote on me, given he seems to defend me in this post viewtopic.php?p=4447654#p4447654

Please explain to me how you think I am defending you?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Finish off GreyIce.

[greenknight]

Finish off GreyIce.

What happened to your scum read on Kimor and why are you totally dismissing Klick's claim

[Sixty]

From my research into the character - she thinks Harry Dresden is potentially insane - discuss.

Everyone

thinks Dresden is potentially insane, up to and including the man himself. Nobody apologizes for it either.

[ICEninja]

Something happened to my post. I have no idea where it went. Anyways, I came to the conclusion that Klick simply cannot be Georgia because there's no rational way to give Georgia a kill, and that's what's been so fishy about all this.

Georgia is intelligent, shy, studious, and one of the most stable and intelligent humans (she is human, despite her ability to turn in to a wolf) in the first 3 books. It's a long stretch to give her a day cop, but I don't believe she killed ANYONE AT ALL in the first 3 books, so giving her a night kill is ridiculous.

Dalton, on the other hand, is a borderline insane FBI-agent-gone-rogue who accepted the ability to turn in to a wolf in order to go where the law couldn't. His wolf side's blood lust slowly consumed him. I can sooooooo very easily conceive Dalton being un-aligned with the gangsters and other evil forces, but have the EXACT powers Klick described, especially if he's insane day cop/night killer.

Klick is probably Dalton. But I don't feel like there's time to do anything about this so let's just lynch Grey today and figure out Klick/Thor tomorrow.

Unvote, Vote GreyICE

. You all have my permission to sheep this.

[Shmugen]

Flashwagon on Klick just isn't smart without a Thor flip.

[Thor665]

I said you asked him for the flavour, he gave you the flavour, and then you said "oh I think Klick is town regardless" and dropped it. Which is pretty much what you did. And only now you respond to Stefan talking about the flavour. Why would you not have followed up on Klick with this...

Follow up with what? Telling him I think his role isn't accurate? I've kind of already done that, so...?

Thor says his lynch won't provide any information
I mention at some point that it does
Thor then claims he's being lynched for information
I say I'm voting him because he's scummier than Grey
Thor claims my main motivation is that he's a counterwagon to Grey

This is ridiculous. Pretty sure Thor's going to flip scum and I'm not wasting any further time arguing with him.

1. Actually I said it would provide 'less' but, okay.
2. You actually said you weren't lynching me for info, and that the wagon wasn't about info.

- being for "information" (which it isn't)

3. I did.
4. You did.
5. You think I'm more likely scum than Grey and consequently support my wagon over Grey - feel free to tell me what you think a counterwagon is, because that's my definition of one.

@Sword - your vote of me and unvote after 'reading' feels really awkward. If you hadn't read enough to have a clear opinion why put me to L-2 (or L-3, whichever) with no questions asked?

@ICEninja - Did that FBI guy have an issue with werewolves? Or was it simply that he was one? I suppose the more focused question would be - would the FBI guy perhaps be a lyncher role hunting werewolves?

Also, I like the new vote.

[Thor665]

Flashwagon on Klick just isn't smart without a Thor flip.

That's good - because he voted Grey, so...

[Albert B. Rampage]

Finish off GreyIce.

What happened to your scum read on Kimor and why are you totally dismissing Klick's claim

It's clearly some type of anti-town gambit.

[Shmugen]

Flashwagon on Klick just isn't smart without a Thor flip.

That's good - because he voted Grey, so...

Yes, but he advocated lynching Klick through the entire thing.

[Thor665]

Klick is probably Dalton. But I don't feel like there's time to do anything about this so

let's just lynch Grey today and figure out Klick/Thor

tomorrow

.

Okay.

[Shmugen]

Klick is probably Dalton. But

I don't feel like there's time to do anything about this

so let's just lynch Grey today and figure out Klick/Thor tomorrow.

Okay.