Micro 65: No Town Lynched (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.05

Thor665 (3) - RedCoyote, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Nachomamma8

Nachomamma8 (2) - Thor665, shos

Not Voting (1) - Gregory

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, November 16, 2012, at 8:10 PM EST (UTC-5).[/area]

[Nachomamma8]

Just waiting on Greg now. Still happy with my vote.

[Nachomamma8]

I see Thor is L-1, nacho is L-2.

If you're town - that alone is a clue.

Also, I can't for the life of me understand what you're trying to say here.
Because my mind immediately jumps to both scum being on my wagon with town voting elsewhere, but that's clearly not what you were going for.

[Thor665]

I see Thor is L-1, nacho is L-2.

If you're town - that alone is a clue.

Also, I can't for the life of me understand what you're trying to say here.
Because my mind immediately jumps to both scum being on my wagon with town voting elsewhere, but that's clearly not what you were going for.

I'm saying scum are pushing my wagon and that's why it's larger.
Because I'm town.

@Red - In the least offensive way possible - the wall post of yours kind of hurt.
WHy not help me "bus" Nacho for lulz? Maybe explain why my scumtells of 'not tunneling' and 'saying something about my read which you decide is actually meant to be taken as someone else's read' makes me more likely scum than him, yeah?

[Nachomamma8]

scumtells of 'not tunneling'

I wish you weren't scum, Thor.
I enjoy your posting style when we are town together.

[Thor665]

You do realize he did accuse me of that though, yeah?
How do you feel about Red's case on me?

[Gregory]

Also, if you're town - replace out, I don't need someone who is going to be not interested in the game on my team.

Don't like it. As myk allready mentioned, town doesn't call itself town. scum does.
His vote is omgus and he keeps going on about myk not being overly motivated. Myk isn’t, true, but that doesn’t make his vote on myk any better.

Early day 2 vote on nacho, as expected. He and nacho had shit reasons to be on the lynch.

I see Thor is L-1, nacho is L-2.

If you're town - that alone is a clue.

Yup, eighter you and shos are partners and are trying to get a counter wagon rolling. Or, you’re town and I’m probably voting a wagon where 2 scum or on already. 1st nacho, and 2nd…
Don’t know yet. Prob cobalt then, as it would make sense for nacho to keep day 1 wagon at L-1 to let his bud totally out of the chaos of day 1. A fast lynch would have been great then. F16 is an option.... nothing more really. been playing decently except for the page 3 hammah. Buuut, I don’t buy that.
Thor has been the most concerned about looking town of all players. Shos has been playing like he’s pretty insecure. I could see those 2 together easily. Much more then nacho-cobalt, cobalt is playing pretty decent so far, no reason to suspect him really, and nacho-f16, well, if that were to be true, then they’d have played a pretty nice HAMMAHSLAMMAH page 3 trick. Both not likely.
While I feel nacho is scummy as hell, I guess it’s his playstyle. I’ve been wrong about him last time all game long, Don’t really thrust my gut read on him anymore.
So

vote:Thor665

Pretty sure bout this.

[Thor665]

That was a terrible case full of derp, and if you're town you should have said it out loud first so people could have explained it to you.

I'm town.

Nacho needs lynching.
Red needs looking at.
Case on me is derptastic and you should all feel ashamed.
Nacho is mostly scum because he let it slide by and he's smart enough to understand how bad it was.
Oh vey, town, seriously?

[Thor665]

Good lord, and Greg is now the second person voting me while saying they think Nacho is crazy scummy.
What is this gak, does it make sense when you think it?

[Thor665]

Because I probably have the time I'm going to run through this because it annoyed me that badly.

Don't like it. As myk allready mentioned, town doesn't call itself town. scum does.

Town doesn't call itself town...scum does.
Newsflash: Every player in this game is claiming town.
Now, how does saying it out loud make me scummy? Oh, wait, it doesn't. Worst you can claim is that I'm trying to convinve people I'm town, but that's a null tell in most ways because town should be trying to do that too.

His vote is omgus and he keeps going on about myk not being overly motivated. Myk isn’t, true, but that doesn’t make his vote on myk any better.

My vote on myrk was not omgus except insomuch as it happened during RVS - my later case on myrk was *specifically* not omgus, and it makes me wonder if you even know what that means.
Also, read the rest of your sentence "Thor calls Myrk out for something Myrk is indeed doing...it doesn't make his vote better"
Um...yeah, that's actually the definition of making a vote better if you agree ith my reasons. So...what the heck, boy?

Early day 2 vote on nacho, as expected. He and nacho had Smurf reasons to be on the lynch.

"As expected"
Also known as "attacking someone I think looked scummy Day 1...y'know, like town would do.
The hell?

Yup, eighter you and shos are partners and are trying to get a counter wagon rolling. Or, you’re town and I’m probably voting a wagon where 2 scum or on already. 1st nacho, and 2nd…

Yeah...so both scum are desperately on Day 2 trying to combo work to lynch the raw powerhouse of scumhunting that is "obvious to vote scummy looking guy, Nacho" or...Thor isn't scum.
This isn't even a case on me, it's a case not to vote me.

Thor has been the most concerned about looking town of all players.

Again, not a scumtell - also, it does NOTHING to make me Shos' partner, which is now part of your derp logic here, so...?

While I feel nacho is scummy as hell, I guess it’s his playstyle. I’ve been wrong about him last time all game long, Don’t really thrust my gut read on him anymore.

You read Nacho as scummy, but you always do so...y'know, probably just got to ignore him because that's how to play the game, ignore the people you have trouble reading.
CERTAINLY we don't want to put attention and pressure on people who we are unsure of our ability to read.
Don't want to ask them questions or get their reads on ANYTHING, yup, that's how it's done.
Brilliant!

Nacho should be made to answer my last question to him, fyi.
Greg needs to learn his cases should be said out loud before voting - because he's not actually able to differentiate between a case and a 'well, let's do this' feeling.

Also, he should be made to explain who Cobalt is...I'm guessing Coyote, but...egads.

Random thought I just had: Is Red Coyote's QT name cobalt? I almost feel like it is.
Someone should probably check on that.

[Thor665]

Disregard. It isn't.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.06

Thor665 (4) - RedCoyote, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Nachomamma8, Gregory

Nachomamma8 (2) - Thor665, shos

Not Voting (0)

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, November 16, 2012, at 8:10 PM EST (UTC-5).[/area]

[Equinox]

Thor665. Now there was a man you never completely trusted. Most days, he was a jolly good fellow, but it had taken only a few Mafia games with him to convince you that his beard had some magical quality that made him impervious to suspicion. Sure, Thor665 could spin a tale and keep his face straight, but would he sell out his crew? You take a chug from the bottle in your hand. Perhaps it would be better if you settled this with solid proof rather than endless questioning. You approach him, and you ask for his card. Thor665 balks, but he gives it to you anyway. It is a green card, and you marvel for a second how, after all this time, identification cards are still made of plastic. At least Thor665 is innocent.

No one was lynched on Day 2!

Night 2 begins now. The deadline is Sunday, November 11, 2012, at 4:50 PM EST (UTC-5).

[Equinox]

You walk down the dirt path, taking in the scenery around you: grass as far as the eye can see, a vivid orange-red sky, and the fresh, earthly smell of an autumn evening. It occurs to you that you are almost home, and you continue on with quicker steps. Ahead of you is a great oak tree, the one under which you enjoyed sleeping from time to time. Now is as good a time as any. Underneath the wide roof of reddening leaves, you let yourself go under... But instead of sighing in relief, you gasp in horror when you realize that one of the red leaves is not, in fact, a leaf but Thor665. The gasp turns into a scream, and you sit bolt upright in your bunk on the ship and come eye-to-eye with Thor665. It takes a second for you to shift from dream to reality, but you have since realized that Thor665 is dead.

Thor665,

town vanilla

, was killed on Night 2!

Day 3 begins now.

Vote Count 3.00

Not Voting (5) - F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Gregory, Nachomamma8, RedCoyote, shos

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, November 25, 2012, at 5:30 PM EST (UTC-5).

[shos]

annnnnd it's lylo.

I want to vote Nacho.

[shos]

@mod: was going over the thread, the starting post needs to be edited..

[Nachomamma8]

annnnnd it's lylo.

I want to vote Nacho.

Cool because I want to vote you.
And thus I am voting you.

Vote: shos

Unfortunately, I have no idea who the fuck your partner would be. RC is probably my first suspicion; it seems strange that Greg would decide to call me town when he knows that today is most likely going to be me vs his scumpartner, and RC is already on your side. If I'm wrong about you, then I've completely fucked this game up and we were doomed to lose for a while now. But I'll reread just in case.

[Nachomamma8]

Thor-Nacho
Thor-shos
Thor-Greg
Greg-Nacho
Greg-shos
Nacho-shos

This is pretty interesting if Coyote is scum who knows that Thor will flip town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I have re-thinking a lot about this game and am wary of Nacho. Nacho made a case on Shos and then voted Thor. I didn't think much of it at that time since I was convinced that Thor was scum.

Also, I am wary of the psychological impact I had from Nacho's post where he calls me town.

I think I was right in that at least one smart scum wouldn't go after me after my hammer but rather call me town. Two people did that near the beginning of the last day phase. Thor and Nacho.

Thor merely said that I was obvtown and that scum wouldn't want to be in the spotlight. It didn't make me feel good that he said it and just made me suspicious of him.

Compare Nacho's post: (I put my thoughts in blue in his post)

This initially came across as extremely pro-town but after Thor's flip, I have a few questions as well and some of things he said do seem counter-intuitive.

Dumb scum would immediately go after someone who quickhammers and try to get them lynched. If that player defends himself and the Day is open long enough, town would eventually realize that the hammerer was town and scum are trying to use that hammer to get him lynched.

Smart scum wouldn't do that. They would call the hammerer obv-town to elicit frustrated reactions from the other townies who would hopefully pressure the hammerer.

This is sort of what I was expecting if Falcon was town. A player that's too confident for his own good who expects he can defend himself and draw out scum with what would be considered a classically scummy move, but isn't to him because he thinks that good things will come out of it. He's not voting right now (

why is this a towntell?

)AND he's attacking someone who has an obvtown read on him, and meanwhile hasn't really formed any strong reads at all (

why is not forming strong reads a town-tell?

). It all adds up to being super fucking confident that he won't be lynched because he just doesn't give a fuck.

so town reads on Gregory and Falcon so far.
RedCoyote sort of reads town I guess?

Vote: shos

Don't really like the "he's scum because he quickhammered" shit, especially since he's gone on and talked about how many quickhammers he's seen lately. He should know by now that they are not inherently scum or town, unfortunately, and the push on him seems like rush for a quicklynch on him and not "pressure to get an explanation", like Thor calls it.

Overall, Nacho's analysis made me feel like he wouldn't just say I am obvtown based on a quickhammer but rather that I would have to earn a town-read from him. When he finally did make the post I felt good because he pointed out good stuff that I did (post reads about who is going after me, etc) and used those stuff to develop his read. In my mind, it legitimized the read and made it seem like I did establish myself as pro-town to another townie.

I suspect this to be mafia manipulation. Nacho knew how to get players to believe him and he knew how to get me on his side. He calls me "confident" for instance.

As far as my experience playing mafia, and from what I've read on the wiki, it is a great move overall as scum to build confidence in a townie and sheep them to a mislynch only to watch as you break that townie's confidence. Difference here is that I caught Nacho doing it.

I was oblivious to this last phase since I thought Thor was scum and Nacho was going up against Thor. Now we see that Thor is in fact town. I can't help but wonder: Is it really co-incidence that Nacho and I have the exact same reads - Thor and Shos as scum-reads? Quite unusual. I accuse Shos and Thor as scum, and Nacho, for whatever reason suspects those same two players. We get Thor lynched and now Nacho is going after Shos. I do think he is following up from his FOS of Shos last phase, but it seemed wierd to me that he went ahead and lynched Thor if Shos was his top suspect.

@ Nacho, if Shos was your top suspect, why did you switch so easily to Thor? Why did you not attempt to persuade me that Shos was scum? You knew I had Shos as a scumread as well and you knew that if you pushed for it, I would probably have voted him.

I don't know about Shos right now. Maybe he is town and Nacho is trying to mislynch him, maybe Nacho is bussing him for town-cred so that he becomes "confirmed" at LYLO and the others crossvote? Maybe Nacho wants me with him at LYLO. I don't know.

I want more opinions and Nacho's response. I won't vote yet. If Nacho does happen to be town, we are done. I think we could rule out scum-pairs based on when someone is online. If anyone else besides Nacho/Shos is online, I'll give a few ideas.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Regarding RedCoyote, I still read him as town. His case on Thor definitely came from a town motivation and I can see he put a lot of thought into it.

Greg: not sure why everyone calls him town (Thor/Nacho). He suspected Thor for having a townread, but other than that, he is null to me. He needs to get out here and start posting more.

[Nachomamma8]

why is this a towntell?

It was a towntell because if you were scum and pulling a gambit like that, you would be comfortable in the spotlight. So, if you wanted to get away with it, you would be sure to post all of those good reads that you've managed to accrue along the course of the day and make a solid vote. Instead, you just hammered, said that you had a hunch that myko was scum, and left it at that.

why is not forming strong reads a town-tell?

Same vein as the not voting thing. If you were scum, I'd expect you to have some defense prepared and not what essentially equates to "fuck you guys, I wanted to hammer and so I did".

@ Nacho, if Shos was your top suspect, why did you switch so easily to Thor? Why did you not attempt to persuade me that Shos was scum? You knew I had Shos as a scumread as well and you knew that if you pushed for it, I would probably have voted him.

Arrogance. I saw Thor and shos posted onto my wagon, I saw Thor pushing me for no real reason, and I thought I had him pegged as scum and had taken away his favorite toy. So when you and RC were voting him, I was happy to lynch my second suspect because I didn't really think the order mattered.

If Nacho does happen to be town, we are done.

What do you mean by this, exactly?

[Nachomamma8]

and I can see he put a lot of thought into it.

Why does this make him town? I can give you plenty of effort posting, but it won't make me town. And REDCOYOTE is fantastic as effort posting, and it most definitely certainly does not make him town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I can see where you are coming from regarding your first two points. Regarding the third, the reason you initially gave for lynching Thor was that everybody else was a townread to you.

Coming to that, your main reasoning for thinking Greg is town is that he refused to accept Thor's townread on him. Why is it a townread in and of itself? Can't scum question townreads on themselves - in order to look town?

Why do you think RedCoyote is town? You had already claimed that Greg was town on Day1 twilight when he questioned the townread on him. Why wouldn't scum-RedCoyote have potentially seen that as a way to look even more town by questioning the townread on him?

Who do you think is Shos's partner and why?

If Nacho does happen to be town, we are done.

What do you mean by this, exactly?

It means if you are town and I vote you, scum will hammer which makes me not want to vote unless I am absolutely certain. Coming to that, you really must be 100% certain that Shos is scum. Why the lack of doubt. I mean, from your POV, I/RC or I/Greg could be scum and if we were, we would have hammered for the win.

and I can see he put a lot of thought into it.

Why does this make him town? I can give you plenty of effort posting, but it won't make me town. And REDCOYOTE is fantastic as effort posting, and it most definitely certainly does not make him town.

I was unaware of RedCoyote in particular being a good effort poster. I am pointing out that the depth of his posts make him likely town. For instance, when he pointed out that Thor hadn't really addressed my response to him and specifically mentioned how Thor neglected to take into account the fact that I should be scumhunting as opposed to rejoicing as town.

[shos]

prods on gregory and RC?

[RedCoyote]

Prods? The game opened less than 20 hours from the time you made that post.

Vote: shos

Easy choice. Remaining scum are probably shos-Greg. What's up, shos? Here we go again, player.