Micro 65: No Town Lynched (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

I'd like to wait to Greg to post something solid before I do. He's always been coming in after the fact, and it'd be nice to see what he produces when he's forced to take the initiative for once.

this is why i'm not voting yet
why are you so impatient, F-16...?

[Gregory]

he has a point nacho. It sucks that I've posted this little, for me too. Gonna take a break for a while, till RL gets steady and a little more relaxed.

day 1

nacho votes thor after thor voting nacho
f16 votes coyote
shos votes f16
shos switches to myk
shos unvotes after myk being l-1
f16 questioning myk, asking for link
nacho puts myk l-1 again
f16 hammers myk 1 hour later when myk doesnt give link
sho's pretending to be shocked. well, he was maybe.
sho's questioning obv town call on f16 by thor
sho's asking again why f16 is cleared
nacho calling gregory obv town, questioning town call on f16
f16 questioning obv town call on himself

day 2
f16 clarifying its not lylo
f16 hanging back not wanting to go in on nacho
shos voting f16 for quickhammer
f16 asking why sho's didnt vote thor instead
shos more bs about quickhammer
f16 explaining quickhammer: gutread
f16 setting up a vote on thor. not voting though.
shos again questioning townreads on f16 and gregory, still raging on f16 quickhammering
f16 explaining his hammer: myk uninterested.
nacho wifom theory why f16 is town, votes shos
shos more going on about the quickhammer, asking nacho why he finds me town.
nacho confirming vote on shos
shos defending himself, kinda
nacho more trying to lynch shos
f16: nacho is town. weak reasons but k
shos questioning nacho townread by f16.
f16: shos is scum
shos still questioning nacho townread
nacho explaining himself after gregory questioning him why greg would be town
nacho more stuff about why shos quickhammer reaction was fake
shos explaining himself again concerining strawmanning
f16 confirming his position on shos. still no vote. want to hammer eighter thor or shos.
nacho more about shos strawman
f16 votes thor. "eighter shos or thor".
shos wanna lynch eighter f16 or RC
nacho ok with thor lynch. keeps going on about shos though.
nacho putting thor l-1. reassured that RC and greg are town
shos voting nacho, while on the same page calling f16 and RC voteble.
shos again questioning nacho's townread on greg
nacho patiently answering again
f16 confirming vote

day 3

shos wanna vote nacho, doesn't
nacho voting shos
f16 opens option to vote nacho
f16 confirms townread on RC. questions townread on greg
nacho questions townread on RC
shos questioning RC's vote on him
f16 questioning RC's townread on nacho
shos also questioning RC's townread on nacho
shos :RC and Nacho scumteam
shos saying greg will be killed at night?
f16 questioning this
shos bullshit reason why greg would be NK
shos finally voting nacho
f16 voting nacho. putting him l-1 too
unvoting
f16 calling hammer on shos
f16 votes shos 5 min after

day 4

ok, I lied. 0.18.
now: I defenately don't see nacho being scum with shos. The way he acted towards shos day 2 doesn't make sense when those 2 would be partners. I mean, bussing is k, and distancing is used pretty often, I just don't see why nacho would go for shos this hard when nobody was even looking at him. If it had been towards any other player in this game, I'd see this as a null-tell. take for instance thor. You could trow anything to that guy, he ain't gonna be shocked. just a nice bs discussion to distract town. To shos, nah. He's gonna make himself more suspected every post.
so, onto F16.
day 1 quicklynch, not much reason. ballsy. shos going for him non-stop, only bout the quickhammer. weak case, isn't gonna hurt. hanging back, not voting till somebody is really suspected. calling shos scum though not voting. strange gambit day 3, you've showed you're ballsy before.
0.34. sucks.

[Gregory]

vote:F16_Fighting_Falcon

yeah I really wanted to make another post just for the vote.

I'm gonna hit things if you really are the most Ice cold partner there could be.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, Greg is town.

VOTE: Nacho

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Greg, you need to unvote quickly before Nacho can hammer so I can explain why he is scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

... And he logged off. I am going to hit things if Greg's inactivity is going to cost us this game. This is honestly the dumbest thing I've seen. Log on once every two days, complain about people ending the day earlier, and voting wrong at LYLO and actually logging off without discussing anything so that scum can hammer. Seriously, Greg, you've single-handed lost us this game. I really don't have any hope you'll log on again before Nacho because your next log on is probably going to 10 days later. Lurker-town ftw.

[Nachomamma8]

NACHO CAN HAMMER

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, why aren't you?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE:

[Nachomamma8]

The vote you posted on me was absolutely terrible. Absolutely and completely terrible in every sense of the word.
like seriously are you fucking kidding me

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Lol, so it was Greg all along? I thought so at the beginning of the Day Phase but his mega-post seemed really mega-town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, I guess it was terrible. I don't know what to say. He sold me on his townie-ness with that single post. He seemed to have put in way too much effort that he got me to backtrack on my scum-read of him.

VOTE: Gregory

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll post a case on why Greg is scum later tonight.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 4.01

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (1) - Gregory
Gregory (1) - F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Not Voting (1) - Nachomamma8

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, November 28, 2012, at 11:30 PM EST (UTC-5).[/area]

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mine?

Okay, you gotta tell me what this means.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why Greg is scum:

1) He has been mostly inactive. In the games Greg has played as town, he usually has some of the highest post counts in the game. He is spontaneous as opposed to reactive. I checked his meta. I could link it but you have played with him in Mafia by the River and he has been very active then too.

2) He has never led the town in any direction. He has always been following whatever others have said. He said he found you scummy because of your "wierd" vote on Myk - which isn't even a scumtell. He said he doesn't "like" Thor a bit leaving himself open to as many options as possible. When you, me, Shos, and Thor were going at it, he posts a prod-dodge. Later he comes in and hammers Thor when it seemed like Thor was the likely lynch.

3) Here is the best evidence of Greg-scum: Ambiguity and Equivocation. And refusal to commit to a position.

Part 1:

agreed. What if smart scum would be the hammerer? That would give scum a pretty good reason to vote any of the bobs attacking him. thats win win, just need balls or brains.

but then again, I don't see you and thor together, and i don't like him a bit.

Part 2

:

nacho's seemed the weirdest. ye, that hammer was weird as hell, but at least it had a reason (kinda). putting someone at l-1 just for the sake of it?

Part 3:

nacho finding me obv town seems strange, as we tunneled last game 24/7 on eachother. I know, it shouldn't matter. new game etc. Still, him calling me obv-town might be a way to dodge that situation.

Part 4

: Wtf does the bolded part mean really? I mean, this guy is keeping open every option while waffling and fence-sitting abotu every option.

Don’t know yet. Prob cobalt then, as it would make sense for nacho to keep day 1 wagon at L-1 to let his bud totally out of the chaos of day 1. A fast lynch would have been great then. F16 is an option.... nothing more really.

been playing decently except for the page 3 hammah. Buuut, I don’t buy that.

Part 5:

yesterday in the train though it hit me that nacho-sho's doesn't make a lot of sence. if my memory doesn't fail, I'd say I remember nacho being the guy going head first against sho's. and while I know there are scum players who like nothing more then to buss their partner 24/7, and I could see nacho doing that, the reactions by sho's seemed different then I'd expect if nacho were his partner. gonna read into that again.

4) Interactions with Shos - Shos never said much about Greg at all. Greg never really said much about Shos at all. There was no FOS on each other, no buddying, nothing. Just the sort of interaction I would expect between scumbuddies - mostly focus on other players.

[Nachomamma8]

i thought i'd be ready to make a decision right now
i'm not
will reread tomorrow, make a post for you guys to respond to

[Gregory]

you vote nacho in lylo. He doesn't hammer you so you make a 1 minute case on me? I don't understand. nacho and shos doesn't make sense and you know it. I don't understand why you didn't crossvote me in the first place. ah well, panic maybe.

1, spontaneous, reactive. ye sure. I don't think that fits my personality at all, though I can force it yeah. I'd say my play is more hanging back, not voting much, reading people in iso. But w/e. I don't like meta votes.
2, I've kept my options open, luckily. If I hadn't, I might have thought you were town for sure, as I found it pretty likely. Guess nacho would have been dead then and we would have lost. Not liking thor a bit is an FoS, if you don't want to see it like that.
3 commiting to a position is cool and all, just gotta be sure you're right. If I'm sure, I vote. I don't see why I should vote someone and then hang around his neck for the rest of the day, impossible to change my view.
4 you're right, not much interaction. shos did mention me couple times because of a townread on me but nothing serious.

oh, if you want to get a meta case off the ground f16, better read more than 1 game.
confirming vote on f16. well, there isn't much of a choise here right. nacho is conf town.

[Nachomamma8]

But w/e. I don't like meta votes.

wasn't your initial suspicion on me based on meta?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why would I "panic" as scum? I'd know that I would need to go one on one with you. I had already said you were my FOS. Then you voted me. There is nothing to panic about if I were scum.

You are pointing out my bad vote on Nacho but you don't explain why it is necessarily scummy at all.

What happened at that time was that this:

- I was convinced you were scum.
- I didn't understand why Nacho didn't see me as so obviously town.
- Nacho asks a few questions and I have a slight suspicion of him.
- Nacho-paranoia sets in and I start to wonder whether I was wrong and whether Nacho really was scum and pulling a fast one on us. His recent victory in Avast C++ doesn't help.
- You come out with a pro-town looking post and vote me. Suddenly, I get scared that Nacho might hammer and that you just lost town the game.

It doesn't make sense from a scum perspective. I didn't really let Nacho-paranoia show at all. Logically, I knew you were scum. But at the back of my mind, I wondered if Nacho was in fact scum who orchestrated a brilliant bus of Shos to get himself to LYLO. Now if I were scum, I'd smoothly and flawlessly vote you back knowing that Nacho was town. My vote on Nacho was terrible but it doesn't show scum intent.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay I am trying hard to see Falcon as scum but the townread is just too strong. Going to save this game for last, but there's like a 99.9999% chance I am going to hammer Gregory.

[Gregory]

But w/e. I don't like meta votes.

wasn't your initial suspicion on me based on meta?

sure it was, but I didn't let it lead me. Ofc I was biased because of the other game, how could I not be?

@f16. so you were going to vote me, and my oh so pro-town post which explained why nacho couldn't be scum with shos made you think nacho had to be scum? that's like a double u turn man. greg-nacho-greg, in just 15 mins.
you're vote was plain terrible indeed. as town or as scum. apparantly scum-f16 makes such mistakes when pressure is high. don't know bout town-f16.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: F16

only vote, not saying anything? obvscum ok yes

This would have to be an early start for distancing, which would suggest that they planned to bus decently hard pregame.

I am not buying Mykonian as town. He makes a really weak case against Thor. When asked to back up that statement he doesn't and keeps talking about whether or not he like Thor. I think in this situation, a quicklynch is good. Better a quicklynch with a shot of getting scum than a long-drawn out process. My gut is saying "go for Mykonian." Hope he flips scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mykonian

This suggests that scum chit-chatted about quickhammering in this setup, which is not a bad plan. But shos unvoted when myko was at L-1, which sort of defeats the purpose of the whole quickhammering strategy by warning town about it beforehand.

there were 5 people voting you, why am *I* the scum one? when it was L-1 I unvoted since I'm always afraid that stuff like this happens.

look in ALL my latest games.

ALL OF THEM. are you scum with F16?

bullshit lying
would he pull off a bullshit lie like this to push a lynch on his partner? probably not.

okay, help me on this one, why is FF obvtown.

WHY IS FF CLEARED

this seems like some excessive questioning on people calling townreads on his partner, even if they planned to bus. at this time it's just time to roll with it if they're both scum, but if he's going for a mislynch, then he can't let that shit stand

dafuq, ok, I'm new to micro's. Is it normal to lynch someone on fcking page 2? like, really? Is the deadline 5 hours or something?
f16, can you explain why a quicklynch is the best option when not even everyone has posted yet?

more suspicion on f-16, no mention of shos who is the only person who shares the suspicion

I don't really follow Thor's logic in saying I am obvtown if Mykonian flips town. The instant reaction from Thor when I hammered was that if Mykonian flips town, I am obvious town, which makes hammering a townie a good scum-gambit. Or perhaps that is what Thor wants us to think.

and now the whole scumteam is questioning the town read people have on F-16? why?

wow this flip is taking long. I bet the mod didn't expect that so soon hehe.

ninja'd by Equi! lol! cmon cmon flip flip flip! (imagine it's like speech speech speech)

arrogant as fuck waiting for the townflip
but if he's planning on bussing the fuck out of his partner and riding solo, he needs to be more conserved, more careful
not this

I can only assume this panic from Shos is because their scumplan of Thor buddying me while Shos trying to lead a mislynch on me isn't working. I think Thor thought I would buddy him back and Shos could get town to mislynch me. Even if Shos goes next, Thor would look innocent at LYLO. Decent plan - but if all goes well and we lynch Shos and Thor, it will have failed spectacularly.

so his plan is to burn some towncred in getting Thor lynched, and then bus his partner the next day
but there really isn't any point in bussing the next day because the towncred becomes mine not his

Yes, it would because nobody else caught onto you. I caught on because I am smart town. I may not be the best at persuading players but I am usually always right. That is part of the reason I hammered Myk and was shocked that I was wrong - it rarely happens.

saying shit like this while he's wrong makes me think he believes in his case
this is unnecessary posturing as scum that's going to make him lose a SHITLOAD of credibility (which he needs) when Thor flips

Can someone explain to me why me-not-voting-thor makes me scum in your eyes? I'm voting F16, reasons should be clear?? the thor scum case is much more arguable and unsure imo.

@Nacho: tell me how the hell did YOU get to gregory town. I don't get it, and you're not the first. *sigh*

questions the townread on his partner no matter what
but this gregory question took a really fucking long time
which means he's posturing to lynch him soon

not voting nacho yet, don't like the idea of being on a wagon with thor. tomorrow more. would like to see redcobalt's view on the game so far.

but you're okay with being on a wagon with F-16?
i thought you suspected the shit out of him too and just didn't suspect them as scum together?
this feels like he's posturing for thor today, F-16 tomorrow (the perfect win)

back, again, finally. school took me much more time as expected ah well. we're only 2 pages further.

I see Thor is L-1, nacho is L-2. Both on top of my scumlist allready. both voting eachoter. I don't see them being a team, while I'm pretty sure one of them is scum. So, kinda like 50/50 to me right now. Will read them in Iso.

THE FUCK HAPPENED HERE
you had a scumread on Thor and F-16 and thought one of them was scum
but now you have a scumread on Nacho and Thor and thought one of them was scum
but they are still 50-50 even though Thor was the oldest scumread? can't help but call bullshit.

we are six.
if three vote thor and three vote nacho, we be problem.

hey partner you should just hammer Thor so we put up with less bullshit

While I feel nacho is scummy as hell, I guess it’s his playstyle. I’ve been wrong about him last time all game long, Don’t really thrust my gut read on him anymore.
So
vote:Thor665

haha ok partner
i got you
where did the 1 of them is scum thing go?
where did the F-16 suspicion go?
wheee

Okay, well at least we can rule out me being scum if Shos is town.

it sounds like he actually believes shos is town

the way I see it, it's probably going to be nacho lynched, gregory killed at night, and a 3p lylo in which I vote RC and he votes me and you decide.

RC and me are going 1v1 in like 3 games in parallel xD

nope not a buddy interaction
nope nope nope

VOTE: Nacho

RedCoyote, if you are town, post but don't hammer.

HI LETS CONFIRM AS TOWN THE PERSON MY BUDDY WAS POSTURING FOR A MISLYNCH ON
HERP DERP

His later posts really made me feel like he was town just because of the fight he was putting up.

effort =/= town
god damn it falcon
but this definitely explains the odd fucking flip

Okay, Greg is town.

VOTE: Nacho

5ui4t4ewiurfiaeuhfei
but honestly, what is scum F-16 expecting here?
gregory going "oh yeah, Nacho is scum! Vote: Nacho"
or maybe gregory confirming himself as town by not hammering and unvoting...?
but why the hell does he want to go against me?
why not against gregory...?
also didn't quote it because it was too long, but that was IIoA. I know what happens, I have read this game many times.

... And he logged off. I am going to hit things if Greg's inactivity is going to cost us this game. This is honestly the dumbest thing I've seen. Log on once every two days, complain about people ending the day earlier, and voting wrong at LYLO and actually logging off without discussing anything so that scum can hammer. Seriously, Greg, you've single-handed lost us this game. I really don't have any hope you'll log on again before Nacho because your next log on is probably going to 10 days later. Lurker-town ftw.

because he knew you weren't going to quickhammer
actually pretty strongly points to him being scum
but you expect him to be town here
>.>

So, why aren't you?

"Hi, I'm the confirmed town who's going to be deciding between you and that townie who made the right choice."
"I AM STILL SUSPICIOUS"
scum falcon would be a crazy motherfucker
a really crazy motherfucker

- I was convinced you were scum.
- I didn't understand why Nacho didn't see me as so obviously town.
- Nacho asks a few questions and I have a slight suspicion of him.
- Nacho-paranoia sets in and I start to wonder whether I was wrong and whether Nacho really was scum and pulling a fast one on us. His recent victory in Avast C++ doesn't help.

I was fucking with you >.>
my original plan was to come out in LyLo and vote greg
but then I thought "wouldn't it be cool if Greg thought that I didn't think he was massively scum and maybe voted F-16?"
remind me never to do this ever again

But w/e. I don't like meta votes.

wasn't your initial suspicion on me based on meta?

sure it was, but I didn't let it lead me. Ofc I was biased because of the other game, how could I not be?

@f16. so you were going to vote me, and my oh so pro-town post which explained why nacho couldn't be scum with shos made you think nacho had to be scum? that's like a double u turn man. greg-nacho-greg, in just 15 mins.
you're vote was plain terrible indeed. as town or as scum. apparantly scum-f16 makes such mistakes when pressure is high. don't know bout town-f16.

i say that I am about to hammer you
and what is your response?
ignoring me
i hate people who ignore me

Vote: Gregory

and now we see if the game is over >.>

[Nachomamma8]

Mine?

[Nachomamma8]

oh yeah the fact that he brought up Avast! was p cool too because it shows he checked my games all paranoid like
or thought to go through my games to see if I had a recent win as scum which is like
impressive