The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[pidgey]

Yeah fkn finally! Are you joining another game soon, and most importantly will you be town? also why did you wanted to lynch me wtffff?

[pidgey]

Reading chicago land is painful! Poor CKD. At least the stress i had read from him was genuine.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fastest theme game ever? Fastest theme game ever.

[pidgey]

Get out homie

[pidgey]

Disney villains was faster probably, at least time wise. 4 days lasted less than a real life day i think.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why isn't pidgey lynched yet, GAWD!

Disney villains went all the way to Lylo though.

[sword_of_omens]

Yeah fkn finally! Are you joining another game soon, and most importantly will you be town? also why did you wanted to lynch me wtffff?

Actually yeah..Ser Arthur Dayne has a Simpson's Mafia coming soon..he might still have room for a /pre-in..get over there...
and sorry for the vote to lynch but you did look a little scummy there...

plus you did try to vig me last time i was town

[ICEninja]

Holy crap, I have such a ridiculous amount to say about this game that I'm literally feeling overwhelmed about it and don't really want to actually do it. So I'll just touch on a few things.

I would like to personally take credit for the Grey's lynch on day 1. I know I wasn't the only one pushing it but for crying out loud I pushed hard and early.

As for my statement's about green being scummy because of not having an avatar, OBVIOUSLY I DIDN'T FIND HIM SCUMMY, I just really wanted him to get a damn avatar, I wasn't kidding in the reasoning I gave. I don't look at names.

I had vast suspicions that my powers only worked for redscum, despite never having been told this. Due to the fact that out of 2.5 possible scum to investigate, 1 of them was investigation immune, and there was also a miller. When I pulled my role I was like "WHOO IM SO STRONG" and then I eventually realized...wow I had a pretty weak role in the grand scheme of things.

A question for MoI...what result would I have gotten had I investigated Sells? Would he have come back not guilty (and thus make my investigation role actually negative, being that I can accidentally clear/incorrectly convict more people than I can actually get a guilty on meaning my investigation was actually ANTI-TOWN)?

SoO played great this game. So did Sixty. I think I like Tierce hydras *chuckle*.

Klick you're a moron. I don't want to play any more games with you in it, in fear of being on your team next time. The people who mentioned that you were a terrible player early on were completely justified. I'm sorry I don't mean to be cruel, but I really haven't seen many examples of worse play than yours.

CKD, sorry you had to go through that. I would have replaced out instead of getting that upset. If a game makes me that upset I stop playing it, it just isn't worth it.

One final note, this game was very enjoyable. Thank you very much MoI for putting it together. Honestly I would have preferred a non-bastard game that followed the flavor more closely but the experience of playing in a large bastard theme game having played almost exclusively smaller normal setups opened my eyes to the joys of playing this game a little less seriously.

AND FUCK YOU FOR MAKING KARRIN SCUM OMG. WE AREN'T FRIENDS ANYMORE. Jk <3

[Zdenek]

I believe that the credit for Grey's lynch on day one goes to the two scum teams.

[Tierce]

I would like to personally take credit for the Grey's lynch on day 1. I know I wasn't the only one pushing it but for crying out loud I pushed hard and early.

You did, but so did we, and we had a considerably better constructed case, if I say so myself. The puppy deserves a share in the credit. ^.^

I believe that the credit for Grey's lynch on day one goes to the two scum teams.

No. Even though all the scum bussed Grey, there were Townies (e.g. this lovely puppy) ignoring Klick's "guilty" on Thor and acting rationally. And we got a two-for-one special when we nailed ckd as well from his D1 play and interactions.

[ICEninja]

I was the only one shoving on Grey, and I was sitting there wondering if I was insane because no one else realized how scummy he was. For quite a while. It made me sad.

[Zdenek]

It's not that Grey wasn't scummy, but Kimor was scummy, Thor was scummy and there was cop guilty on him. I'd wager that there's about (and really it's probably less than) one game a year where the right play was lynching GreyICE (or well the player in his position in that game :p), and in this game they would have both flipped scum, so they're both good lynches.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well done Tierce and Vi. High five town!

[ICEninja]

Zdenek, I mean LONG before the guilty claim.

Then as soon as Klick claimed day cop vigilante I knew I had to investigate that fool before I could take his word for anything.

[ICEninja]

Oh and woot, looks like I got some respect from Thor in their QT.

[Oversoul]

Klick, just because it was bastard doesn't mean you had to use Lucid Dreamers creativity.

[Oversoul]

I liked CKD's role a lot.

Would have been better if he was independent and bulletproof with either faction's kill.

[Oversoul]

By better I mean cooler, not trashing the setup MoI. Was interesting to read everything. I liked the originality.

[ICEninja]

Oh and for the record I'm curious...was my catch on Grey's "slip" genuine? Since scum really do have daytalk, did I catch it or did I really just misunderstand that he meant tracking down?

[Thor665]

@Kimor

<3 you for your conversations in your QT with your buddies about what was happening in game - I feel like we were sad mirrored souls watching a train wreck, seeing what would happen, and yet being totally helpless to stop it

Wish you hadn't kept urging CKD to talk me out of killing Sixty though.

[Vi]

Oh and for the record I'm curious...was my catch on Grey's "slip" genuine? Since scum really do have daytalk, did I catch it or did I really just misunderstand that he meant tracking down?

Barring GreyICE saying otherwise we're still pretty sure that you, ckd, and others seized on nothing.
Daytalk isn't that uncommon, especially in Large games, especially in complex Large games.

[greenknight]

Oh and for the record I'm curious...was my catch on Grey's "slip" genuine? Since scum really do have daytalk, did I catch it or did I really just misunderstand that he meant tracking down?

I don't think it was a slip either even knowing that he was scum, but at least you did flush out CKD. Part of the reason I considered CKD and Thor better lynches than Grey on d1 was that CKD was pushing the Greyice lynch in a scummy fashion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So someone in the Dead QT (I think it was StefanB) asked me a couple of questions about how long this game took to create and what my favorite role was.

This set-up has been a long time coming. I originally started actually putting ‘pen to paper’ as it were in December of 2011 but had been percolating the idea around in my brain for at least a couple of months beyond that. The Dresden series I find to be the perfect stomping ground for Mafia games. You have the nice mixture of genres (fantasy, detective), a very large cast of characters, and any number of characters who nicely blur the lines between Dull Hero and Stereotypical Villain.

Originally the set-up was going to be Large-r. There were several elements that got axed over time - the StreetWolves originally were to be a three player “Shared Vig” similar to the Angry Mob from ElectricBadger’s Mini Theme. Marcone was originally slated to be the Chicagoland Doc (using his criminal influence to call off hits). However the back to back crashes (that occurred while I was running Final Fantasy 6 Mafia) resulted in me reassessing how large a game I wanted to run. The game got downsized and elements dropped or re-assigned.

Duality (which I mentioned in the Dead QT) is the word that defines this set-up. Each Mafia team had an information role, an Investigation Immune member, a blocking role, and a way to defeat secondary Town powers (Tracker and protection, specifically). Town had mirroring roles revolving around the two Mafia factions – there were Cops for each (Zdenek and ICENinja), Docs for each (Dresden and ICEninja), Bulletproofs for reach (Shumgen and greenknight), Millers for each (Konowa and greenknight), and recruitables for each (fatlikepig and jasonT1981). Once it became public that there were two factions I expected there to be re-assessment by every player about what their role actually did. This is a case where reading into the flavor of the role PMs would pay off. And I think it was successful as Shamrock, Vi and ICENinja all made comments at some point driven by the flavor that led the to correct assessments of hidden elements of the game.

Interestingly in set-up review their was never that much worry at all that Town was over-powered. In fact the sentiment among the reviewers was that if anything scum still probably was slightly favored but the set-up was so swingy it was really going to be hard to balance. And the actual result bore that out – Town steam-rolling scum on Dayplay rendered whatever worries about scum being over-powered moot.

Fun fact – this is the first time Town has won a set-up of mine.

As to the what my favorite role in this game is – I can’t say I can have just one.

I love the Mafia Wildcard. I think it is a pretty unique spin on the Informed Minority concept – a player who has more information than anyone else but is also at once more vulnerable than any other scum player and still has every reason to play to a scum Wincon. I’m sad the CKD took the route he did with it in claiming to one side so early and outing both sides to the other. I think, as things go, that is to my mind the weakest possible way to utilize that role and I was hoping for more from such a veteran player.

I also very much love the ‘boring Vanilla Masons’ who were poised to be the Worst Nightmare of every other player (Sixty’s role) or of the players who killed Sixty (ABR’s role). In fact I actually prefer Tera as a nice Wincon alternative to the standard Serial Killer. I personally think alternate Wincon roles are very under-utilized here on Mafia-scum.

I probably had the most fun writing flavor and abilities for secondary characters (specifically both bulletproof roles and Bob when recruited) who had something I could exploit in having some fun.

--

MoI, after sensor result was outed, i was stuck anyway. Killing FLP would confirm the result, and blocking pidgey is useless - everyone would decide that scum got the result and decided to keep silent. My chance was to find traitor in a "cleared" pool - then either pidgey Fairy will report that FLP was wrong (and i will be saved in process), or Fairy will report that FLP was right (and traitor will have chances to win the game).

I get what you are saying but from a Mod Spoiled perspective you were making your moves way too late. For example – by the time you actually decided to kill Sixty you were aware via fatlikepig’s claim that the Escape potion existed in the game. I’m surprised you didn’t even factor that in as a workable Doc Protect possibility.

Furthermore Jason was not getting lynched with Sixty basically calling him confirmed Town. So once you died (which was going to happen) I think a large “Hmmm … two blue and two red flipped” outguessing would have taken over. For example – Tierce said she was paranoid that The Nightmare was missing. Had jasonT’s “Scared to death” flavor started showing up that probably would have fueled the fire on her thoughts and jason’s ability was one of the few absolutely proven (via his information from ICENinja) and thus likely not a secondary Serial Killer ability.

I’m not saying your choices were bad. If anything I think you already being screwed by the sensor made you rush those choices.

--

Hah, I would draw the one secret VT in a role madness game.

Yeah. I saw how you were ‘protecting’ Sixty and was waiting for them to get snuffed early and you basically throw tons of explictives my way when your protection failed.

--

A question for MoI...what result would I have gotten had I investigated Sells? Would he have come back not guilty (and thus make my investigation role actually negative, being that I can accidentally clear/incorrectly convict more people than I can actually get a guilty on meaning my investigation was actually ANTI-TOWN)?

Had you investigated Sells you would have gotten a result of Not Guilty. You only successfully investigated those aligned with the Chicagoland Mafia (or the Miller to that faction). Your role was not intended to be ‘strong’ – in fact the option to Doc protect someone should have, to some degree, signaled this. Why give you an option that logically you would very rarely choose (Docs are overall much weaker for Town than Cops) unless your investigation was not all that powerful? Additionally the fact that you were a split Doc / Cop also should have strengthened this – why give the Cop (usually the target for protection) what you might expect to be the only means of protection?

Dresden was the strong Town investigative role in the game – his normal investigation caught both factions and his enhanced protection caught everyone including the Serial Killers while avoiding the Millers. Both you and Zdenek were quasi-useful Cops with quasi-useful secondary skills.

AND FUCK YOU FOR MAKING KARRIN SCUM OMG. WE AREN'T FRIENDS ANYMORE. Jk <3

Yeah, I expected this sort of reaction to Karrin’s flip (and expected something similar if Konowa ever flipped too)

[ICEninja]

And I think it was successful as Shamrock, Vi and ICENinja all made comments at some point driven by the flavor that led the to correct assessments of hidden elements of the game.

Pshh I made comments PREGAME that I had an idea that my doc protection only worked on one faction, and suspected that my cop read behaved similarly.

Had you investigated Sells you would have gotten a result of Not Guilty. You only successfully investigated those aligned with the Chicagoland Mafia (or the Miller to that faction). Your role was not intended to be ‘strong’ – in fact the option to Doc protect someone should have, to some degree, signaled this.

It actually wasn't strong at all. Zdenek and I should have stuck, the entire game, to our non investigative abilities. Let me explain why:
Out of the 5 scum, 2 and a half are redscum. Dalton can only be investigated by myself when other redscum still live. Murphy is investigation immune and therefore will turn up not guilty. Both of the bluescum turn up not guilty. That leaves exactly 1 redscum who will always come up as guilty, and one redscum who will come up as not guilty in a majority (but not all) of situations. PLUS there is Marcone who was an uninformed miller. Therefore although there was slightly less than 2 people who I could investigate and profit from, there were 4 full members who I could investigate and seriously damage town.

The added sting is that my duality is NOT revealed upon death. Had I investigated and cleared Sells, after Bianca's investigation immune flip everyone will know there are no more investigation immune bluescum. However, when I die, I flip bodyguard cop with no indication that my cop on bluescum will fail, thus making that particular failed investigation absolutely

devastating

. Considering how close I was to investigating Thor instead of Klick, this

very

much scares me, as the game could have gone very VERY differently had that happened.

The bulletproof bodyguard role is MUCH MUCH more useful, as it would almost cut in half (not quite because of dresden's kill) the likelihood of both myself and another player dying. There's the downside of reducing cross kills, but Dalton was there to reduce the impact of those (at least early on). If I were to play this exact same setup again as either Carmichael or Susan, I would honestly pretend that investigation doesn't exist because it's poison.

Which, considering this is a bastard game and how this game was set up, is actually kind of awesome. I'm not ragging on your setup here, I actually find it quite brilliant. Frustrating as hell for me (and potentially Zden if he survived the first night) but brilliant.

[ICEninja]

Good lord I'm just thinking right now about what would have happened had I investigated Thor. Klick would have likely been quick lynched because I would have counter claimed him, Thor would have been cleared as town, both Zdenek and I would be dead before revealing anything about our dualities, and

both investigation immune scum would have flipped

, meaning that no one would have even the slightest inkling that my investigation on Thor wouldn't have been accurate.

Kowona wouldn't have shot Thor, and would have either not fired or killed a townie, thus losing his vote and probably preventing him from shooting again for the rest of the game or risk suicide. With Thor, who is a fairly good player, cleared and alive until redscum decides to cross kill him, there would have been deaths. SoO would likely have eaten it eventually, as well as Sixty, thus having that ON INVESTIGATION CHANGE making the difference between town steamrolling scum and a close game.