NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:47 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Vote Count 3.04


Untrod Tripod (4)- Empking, Plan B, JacobSavage, RedCoyote
Nostredeus (4)- 4nxi3ty, Gentlemen Bastards, N, F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Empking (2)- Untrod Tripod, Nostredeus

Not voting: No one!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LA


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Deadline


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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:40 am

Post by Gentlemen Bastards »

Elements of Nosts specifically the last paragraph and "If you can't see why Emp needs rope we've got more problems than me posting a mistaken draft" comes across as genuine frustration. Need to look at it again when it's not near midnight but for now I'm not as confident that the slots mafia. I want to do a massive go-over of a lot of players in the game because right now my PoE means that I have one or two things wrong likely and need to work out where it's at.

Unvote


F-16, can you explain what happened to your strong scum-read on Jacob, it seems to have dropped of after yesterday; does it have to do with you just being more confident in Nost being scum or did you actually listen to us and re-read him in a different light noticing the genuineness inside his posting.

PlanB, of DemonCores list in out of everyone there that's still alive the person I'm most confident about being town is UT or N. Regarding UT I think you need to really think a lot more on the interaction between Doom because while I know you're stating it's your only hesitation it's a relatively big point to him being town plus his play and interaction with us after D2 onwards comes across as town, don't think he'd be 'ignoring us' if he was scum and we were town-reading him. And regarding N now that Black Flag Mafia is over where N was scum that game combined with the other scum-meta he prior linked point heavily, and I mean heavily towards him being town here. I'll explain the difference in his play here vs there if you want in detail tomorrow but I think skim-reading his ISOs in the other game and then re-looking at him here should suffice in showing that he's probably town. So that means on the list we're looking at likely scum inside of RC and Adorakble (Nostredeus) so want to hear your thoughts in quite some more detail on those two because I'm growing less certain on my reads inside them at the moment and now that Empires vanished for exam period I'd rather hear have somewhere to bounce reads of.

RC, I have no issue with you taking into account your town-reads reads but the degree you're weighing them above your own is the issue I have and sure I'd love examples of you doing that as town in the past so if you remember doing so in any particular games then link me the situations. And I'd like an updated reads list from you or at least the scum->town thing you do with a little bit of reasoning behind the stronger reads. Need to understand where your heads at and see if I can follow your line of thought at all. Also I know this is an odd kind of question but can you explain what you think the difference between your scum and town meta is.



Nostredeus wrote:So A rests on the assumption that I read the OP made up some crap about Nero that just happened to be what my slot thought then miss spelt demoncore even though it explicitly says the correct spelling in the OP and then tried to leverage that? Yeah, err, okay then... Alternatively I might have miss spelt demoncore because there is a player called doomyoshi and I've just read 25 pages in a ridiculously short period of time. But w.e I'll let the town decide which is more likely. If B was true why would I be voting for empking right now? I'm sure you've got something convoluted to say about that too right?(As for the vote swap based on your predecessors, that's nice for you but to paraphrase another player from a different game "This isn't church, the sins of the father aren't absolved because you replaced in".)

I want you to slow down and explain all of this in real detail for me. Help me understand what I'm missing here. You replaced in, looked at what page first? 1? The most recent one? Looked at the OP? Typed your post, then looked at the OP? I need to understand the order in which you did things here because you knowing that NC had died means that you should know that DoomYoshi and DemonCore had died too so your reads on them and commenting on them but not on NC comes across as a fake attempt to town-tell. Sure, lets say the typo is nothing - it was a weakish element to why we suspect you anyway and much smaller than what you attempted to make it out to be in of yours. Okay; lets say your scum-read on 4nxiety and us isn't based solely on us having a scum-read on your slot and pushing it, explain to me slowly why you think we're scum because the scum-reads and your entire reads come across as just an OMGUS and attempt to de-credit your attackers, stating 'voted x/y' or 'your predecessors sins are yours too' doesn't explain any of it. At the same time you can explain your read on RC that you've been avoiding that 4nxiety has requested. Also about your where you're stating that Empking had no justification for voting Doom. In he stated there's very likely scum inside Demons list, in we pointed him towards our Toon scum-read explanation and told him to join us and that he should look at our read on Toon. He followed up on that and voted Toon in so I don't think his change of stance on Toon is that bad at all.
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:34 am

Post by Nostredeus »

Empking wrote:
Nostredeus wrote:you know what, fuck that, give me a single Scum read on Toon made by Empking IN THE ENTIRE GAME. If you can't see why Emp needs rope we've got more problems than me posting a mistaken draft, Emp even calls Toon town in the only read of Toon he/she actually does make.


Don't pretend that I didn't mention DC's list several times on D2 as the place to look.


Quote these apparent posts for us, seriously if I'm gunna get mislynched today I'd like town to have a visual record of what you think undermines the case I've been making so that at least tomorrow they'll string you up; show us all where you made it plain as opposed to slipped in and went along with the lynch. All I can find is you being told to "have another look at Toon" and you replying with "I will"; that's really not going to hold water so if there's something better then pick it out for us.


GB I will do exactly as requested, I've got to go into town and wont be back for a good few hours but asap.
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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:44 am

Post by Empking »

Empking wrote:
JacobSavage wrote:is anyone a little concerts that they went for Demon core?


Demon "UT is scum: law & order tell" Core? Haven't given it as much thought as it deserves actually.

Empking wrote:
Gentlemen Bastards wrote:PEdit: Empking, the same thing could be attributed to N / Toon / RC / Adorkable.


Undoubtedly at least one, and probably two, scum are in those five names. As I said, I've paid less attention to it than it deserves.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:04 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

Nostredeus wrote:
RC Is buddying up to Emp based on Emp's reads; which is interesting because:

this happened D3. Your other reads are mainly based on D1 or D2. You didn't really put a lot of thought into that read. Feels like you just wanted RC in a scum group, but you didn't actually want to pay too much attention to him.

IN FACT
; you know what, fuck that, give me a single Scum read on Toon made by Empking IN THE ENTIRE GAME. If you can't see why Emp needs rope we've got more problems than me posting a mistaken draft, Emp even calls Toon town in the only read of Toon he/she actually does
so empking is scum for having a townread on toon, and me and gb are scum for having a scum read on toon. :?
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:09 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Elements of Nosts specifically the last paragraph and "If you can't see why Emp needs rope we've got more problems than me posting a mistaken draft" comes across as genuine frustration.

It is more of an appeal than a frustration.

the more you doubt Nost the more likely UT is going to get lynched, just so you are aware.
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:29 am

Post by JacobSavage »

UNVOTE:
I think given the current situation it should be a choice between Nost and Empking rather than UT for the time being.
Personally I would prefer to give the replacement some period of grace out of coutersy but at the same time Empking doesn't seem scummy enough to warrant a lynch.

Hmmm... Ill look over both of them soon.
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:18 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

Gentlemen Bastards wrote:
F-16, can you explain what happened to your strong scum-read on Jacob, it seems to have dropped of after yesterday; does it have to do with you just being more confident in Nost being scum or did you actually listen to us and re-read him in a different light noticing the genuineness inside his posting.


I investigated him. He is town.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:07 pm

Post by Nostredeus »

Gentlemen Bastards wrote:I want you to slow down and explain all of this in real detail for me. Help me understand what I'm missing here. You replaced in, looked at what page first? 1? The most recent one? Looked at the OP? Typed your post, then looked at the OP? I need to understand the order in which you did things here because you knowing that NC had died means that you should know that DoomYoshi and DemonCore had died too so your reads on them and commenting on them but not on NC comes across as a fake attempt to town-tell. Sure, lets say the typo is nothing - it was a weakish element to why we suspect you anyway and much smaller than what you attempted to make it out to be in of yours. Okay; lets say your scum-read on 4nxiety and us isn't based solely on us having a scum-read on your slot and pushing it, explain to me slowly why you think we're scum because the scum-reads and your entire reads come across as just an OMGUS and attempt to de-credit your attackers, stating 'voted x/y' or 'your predecessors sins are yours too' doesn't explain any of it. At the same time you can explain your read on RC that you've been avoiding that 4nxiety has requested. Also about your where you're stating that Empking had no justification for voting Doom. In he stated there's very likely scum inside Demons list, in we pointed him towards our Toon scum-read explanation and told him to join us and that he should look at our read on Toon. He followed up on that and voted Toon in so I don't think his change of stance on Toon is that bad at all.


Okay here's how I do things when I replace in.

First of all I didn't read the OP Alive/Dead list before reading the game instead this time I opened up a wordpad document and started reading. As I go through games I write down my thoughts along the way meaning town get a feel for what I would have thought in those situations versus what my predecessor would have thought. So I started reading (at speed, less than an hour for 25 pages is on average 2 minutes per page assuming I didn't spend any time writing, which I did, or re-reading certain parts, which I did; try and bear that in mind here, post time stamps will objectively confirm this.); as I came to the end of D1 I saw the hammer/lynch of piggy and put my thoughts in the wordpad document (the first comment and the second comment) I also agreed with my predecessor in post #394. The next thing I did was look at the swap from Nero at the last minute to Piggy and think it was scummy (The third comment) which is why you got a load of suspicion from me, I then presumed Nero would be scum too or you two would have had less reason to bail on Nero but that wasn't the main read there it was solely implied; I later noticed Nero got killed N2 and went back to add the bit in brackets to avoid confusion (The 4th comment). I then skipped to the N2 lynch and read backwards since I had a basic impression of everyone already, I really don't need to see every post. When doing this I decided the way you and anxiety pushed for a Toon lynch was horrible, but more importantly the way Empking pushed for it with zero justification and sheeped you when in reality Emp had Toon as a Town read set off crazy alarm bells everywhere (This is why Emp gets added to the scum list). I then came across a tonne of quoted posts of interactions between UT and DY (Who at this point I hadn't seen was dead because I left that bit until last) and interpreted them both as town wasting each others time (which explains the next comment). Emp continued to coast along adding no content (which explained the comment after that) and then I see RC congratulating Emp on a load of reads/votes which Emp didn't justify; it was clear buddying with a tonne of straight up lies about the quality of Emp's play. (Hence the last post about RC)

So that's where I got to with the reads, exactly how it happened. I next looked at the case against my slot and responded before putting down a summary of the scum, FoS, Town reads that I had. After doing this I copy and pasted my wordpad document over to the Reply box and went back and read through to see if anything was missing (which is where I saw my DY mistake) and corrected it in the wordpad; and this is also where I derped, I posted the reply before copying across the new draft, that's where this massive distraction has come from. Then, as soon as UT pointed out the mistake I corrected it and DID NOT leverage any of that mistake to try and reinforce or gain town cred.


Now either that convinces you, in which case yay. Or it doesn't in which case meh you're on my scum read list anyway so I don't expect it to.


As for Emp, all those two quotes show is one really nebulous comment that means very little and is certainly not reason for a vote and one comment that allows Emp to sit on both sides of the fence after the vote goes south. I'm anything but convinced.
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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:02 pm

Post by N »

Gentlemen Bastards wrote:And regarding N now that Black Flag Mafia is over where N was scum that game combined with the other scum-meta he prior linked point heavily, and I mean heavily towards him being town here. I'll explain the difference in his play here vs there if you want in detail tomorrow but I think skim-reading his ISOs in the other game and then re-looking at him here should suffice in showing that he's probably town.

Really? Is my play
that
different? I didn't realise I've done anything differently.

F15
, you were in that game too. What do you think of me here compared to there?

JacobSavage wrote:Personally I would prefer to give the replacement some period of grace out of coutersy

I don't understand why you keep saying this. If someone made a post as terrible as that at the start of the game, but you ignore that too?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Gentlemen Bastards wrote:F-16, can you explain what happened to your strong scum-read on Jacob, it seems to have dropped of after yesterday; does it have to do with you just being more confident in Nost being scum or did you actually listen to us and re-read him in a different light noticing the genuineness inside his posting.

I investigated him. He is town.

I think you've done the right thing not claiming your complete role, but can you tall us who you investigated n1 as well?
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:23 am

Post by JacobSavage »

@N. yes, well I would certainly wait a little for some explanation.
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:36 am

Post by Gentlemen Bastards »

We're not lynching UT or Nost today. I need to reasses on a few other people today, will be doing a stack of reading tonight and want to look into a little bit of meta onto two or three people but everyone needs to unvote, state their thoughts on others and all up increase the content in the game. Right now there's far too much of people coasting along and being just active enough to dodge prods.

4nxi3ty wrote:It is more of an appeal than a frustration. the more you doubt Nost the more likely UT is going to get lynched, just so you are aware.

I think it's actually genuine, as is his recent posts and I got a message from Empire today with him saying that he thinks is townish and I completely agree with him on that. And really, I don't want another day where it's two wagons that end up being on town so I rather step back, reassess and read everything rather than just pray that my doubts are wrong. Also the attitude of 'unvoting means other wagon goes through more' is bad, there's plenty of time to go today. And yeah, just finished reading through Nosts slowly and holy fucking shit that's genuine. It also explains a lot of his stances and comments that he made in his catch up post and the 'wanted to put himself in the game as if he was there when reading it' is a massively town thing to do.

Oh and N, your play
is
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:07 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

Nostredeus wrote:When doing this I decided the way you and anxiety pushed for a Toon lynch was horrible

What is the difference between our pushes on toon compared to others who were on the wagon?

I next looked at the case against my slot and responded before putting down a summary of the scum, FoS, Town reads that I had.

If this were true, why have this reaction?
Nostredeus wrote:So to be clear you guys are saying that after 3 days your strongest scum read is down to me mis-spelling a name after reading 25 pages in a ridiculously short time? Really?
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:23 am

Post by 4nxi3ty »

Gentlemen Bastards wrote:
I think it's actually genuine, as is his recent posts and I got a message from Empire today with him saying that he thinks is townish and I completely agree with him on that.
that post and similar statements are all appealing to notion that "town is making a mistake". it is a very "don't lynch me" oriented mindset.

Also the attitude of 'unvoting means other wagon goes through more' is bad, there's plenty of time to go today.
not when you factor momentum into it.

And yeah, just finished reading through Nosts slowly and holy fucking shit that's genuine. It also explains a lot of his stances and comments that he made in his catch up post

coming up with an explanation to fit a catch up post is an easy thing to do. and his stances aren't adding up.

and the 'wanted to put himself in the game as if he was there when reading it' is a massively town thing to do.
yeah town can approach a read-through that way, but it is also an easy thing for scum to say they did that.

Have you forgotten adorkable's posting?
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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:47 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

arghhhhhhhhhh quote stripes

my eyessssssssssssssss
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:53 am

Post by RedCoyote »

Let me take delay my next post because GB are making me feel bad for not being involved enough... and I love the two players in that hydra and respect their opinions very much. I want to make a decent one. If there's one policy I stick to through thick and thin, it's that I never, ever refuse any player that asks me to post my reads. I think that should be the focus of every town player: wide open communication.
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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:09 am

Post by Plan B »

@ Gentlemen Bastards

I'll reconsider my stances, but no promises.

I've had a once over on all the posts since my last one, but haven't gone in depth. Too much real life. Should be all caught up by Thursday.

@ Nostredeus

I don't see how Empking's relatively early jump on Toon Fighter, with a conspicuous lack of explanation (not exactly a lay low kind of play), is scummier than Untrod Tripod's L-1 vote which he didn't justify either, except by kind of shifting responsibility to Gentlemen Bastards.

I'm trying to figure out if your expressed Town read on Untrod Tripod from Day 1 play is enough to explain how you appear to have looked at his play on the Toon Fighter lynch with a less than critical eye.

Because, you didn't really answer my question which was about comparing Empking's and Untrod Tripod's play on that lynch. Instead, you used it as a platform to launch a further Empking attack.
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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:15 am

Post by Plan B »

EBWOP:
Nostredeus wrote:IN FACT; you know what, fuck that, give me a single Scum read on Toon made by Empking IN THE ENTIRE GAME.

Maybe you could do the same for me from Untrod Tripod? Or, kind of explain why the burden is different for each of them?
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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:07 pm

Post by Nostredeus »

@Plan B: UT doesn't get any real credibility for his D2 lynch, he/she just loses less due to other factors; for one actually bothering to also call RC on his chumming up to Empking's reads.

The distinction is that Empking has been functionally scummy all game whilst UT hasn't, so when Empking slips onto a lynch without a word of his/her own it looks pretty bad and compounds that.
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:45 pm

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

@ Nost, what about Empking has been "functionally scummy?" Are you referring to associative tells with DY?
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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:36 pm

Post by N »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:08 pm

Post by Empking »

JacobSavage wrote:I think given the current situation it should be a choice between Nost and Empking rather than UT for the time being.


Why? Nost isn't claiming any role insight, and we (you and I) agree that UT is scum. Nost is still dumb - though "show me where you mentioned TF being scum at all before voting" being changed to "show me where you mentioned it three times before voting" does smell a little like scum wanting a dumb town read - which is null for Nost, and certainly null for me (I'm reading you correctly for your reason for wanting to narrow it down to me, right?).
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:43 pm

Post by JacobSavage »

Empking wrote:
JacobSavage wrote:I think given the current situation it should be a choice between Nost and Empking rather than UT for the time being.


Why? Nost isn't claiming any role insight, and we (you and I) agree that UT is scum. Nost is still dumb - though "show me where you mentioned TF being scum at all before voting" being changed to "show me where you mentioned it three times before voting" does smell a little like scum wanting a dumb town read - which is null for Nost, and certainly null for me (I'm reading you correctly for your reason for wanting to narrow it down to me, right?).


No, not at all. I said that because, it certainly looked (at least for a time) that at least one of the two main wagons was scum (probably 1, not sure which though) and by encouraging everyone to be one of two wagons it means that anaylsis on the flip might be easier.
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:50 pm

Post by Empking »

JacobSavage wrote:
Empking wrote:
JacobSavage wrote:I think given the current situation it should be a choice between Nost and Empking rather than UT for the time being.


Why? Nost isn't claiming any role insight, and we (you and I) agree that UT is scum. Nost is still dumb - though "show me where you mentioned TF being scum at all before voting" being changed to "show me where you mentioned it three times before voting" does smell a little like scum wanting a dumb town read - which is null for Nost, and certainly null for me (I'm reading you correctly for your reason for wanting to narrow it down to me, right?).


No, not at all. I said that because, it certainly looked (at least for a time) that at least one of the two main wagons was scum (probably 1, not sure which though) and by encouraging everyone to be one of two wagons it means that anaylsis on the flip might be easier.


The two main wagons were UT and Nost. Am I misunderstanding you?
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Post Post #674 (ISO) » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:50 am

Post by JacobSavage »

I don't think so... I'm know really confused...
"
I don't have an opinion, everything is great.
"


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