Mini 1398 - Game Over!

[Cheery Dog]

Cherry, what do you think of shamrock? You failed to mention him in your analysis. Or maybe you did I just didn't find it.

I don't know where you loked for my analyse, because I haven't provided any on anyone. (except the small amount on Absta in my previous post).

I am in agreeance with what people have said about him, but am unsure of actually how obvscum it makes him, definitely not enough for me to preform the hammer vote. I never actually noticed him at all during my readthrough. Currently listed in my mind as leaning scum.

[Nachomamma8]

bacde is town, ice is town, disturbed is town, jabberwock is town, jmo is town, melmond is town, iamusername is town
dunham might be scum, cheery probably isn't scum, absta probably is
we'll develop stronger reads for tomorrow, but i feel pretty good about those townreads
except maybe melmond

[Nachomamma8]

HAMMER AWAY
fuck claims since shamrock is a lurking fuck bastard

[Mirhawk]

iam you realize you have the am/pm timestamps on two of my posts mixed up right? My post 189 was about twelve hours after 185, not 14 minutes.

[Mirhawk]

Also, iam is probably town.

[Nachomamma8]

bacde is town, ice is town, disturbed is town, jabberwock is town, jmo is town, melmond is town, iamusername is town
dunham might be scum, cheery probably isn't scum, absta probably is
we'll develop stronger reads for tomorrow, but i feel pretty good about those townreads
except maybe melmond

MIRHAWK
that's a scum

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count #13

Shamrock (6) - Bacde, ICEninja, Mirhawk, Disturbed_One, Nachomamma8, Jabberwock

Disturbed_One (3) - jmo16mla, Shamrock, Melmond
ICEninja (1) - Dunhamganger
Mirhawk (1) - iamausername
absta101 (1) - Cheery Dog

Not Voting (1) - absta101

Deadline is in: (expired on 2012-12-15 00:00:00)

13 alive, 7 to lynch.

[Mirhawk]

Because?

[iamausername]

iam you realize you have the am/pm timestamps on two of my posts mixed up right? My post 189 was about twelve hours after 185, not 14 minutes.

oh, so i did. i guess that's a much more plausible time gap in which to change your mind.

so i guess you are absolutely sure that you changed your mind after you made post 185 then, huh?

[Melmond]

HAMMER AWAY
fuck claims since shamrock is a lurking fuck bastard

That's crap. There's a week til deadline, what if it's a PR? We'll probably be getting a replacement, so hold up.
I take back the nacho-townread, he's null.

[ICEninja]

If Shamrock gets replaced I'm not sure how fair that is going to be for the person who replaces in. He would basically be replacing in to claim. Unless they come in and make a

really

good case on lynching another player, I just don't see my vote being anywhere other than Shamrock or Bacde today.

Actually except for Cheery. I could lynch Cheery.

[Mirhawk]

so i guess you are absolutely sure that you changed your mind after you made post 185 then, huh?

Reasonably sure. It`s not like I write down what time I think things at. But that sounds about right.

You obviously think you`re on to something so how about you get to the point.

[absta101]

@Nacho - Answer my question in this post.

[Nachomamma8]

HAMMER AWAY
fuck claims since shamrock is a lurking fuck bastard

That's crap. There's a week til deadline, what if it's a PR? We'll probably be getting a replacement, so hold up.
I take back the nacho-townread, he's null.

couple things.
1) So, we already have a PR claim that many people have announced that they dislike. I'm sure people wouldn't really like Shamrock's PR claim either, so we would have two scummy-looking claims at the end of Day 1, and approximately three days or so to create a wagon out of nowhere and lynch someone. It will probably be a mislynch that we will look back on and call stupid, but we couldn't stop the lynch because we needed a lynch. So then, with a stupid mislynch and someone killed overnight that is not any of our two PRs, what do we do? Leave them alive another night, let them survive until LyLo? And then figure out which one of them is scum? No, that will probably give us lower chances of winning than if we lynched Shamrock the PR right now >.>
2) Shamrock is not a PR. Look at how active he was in Dresden Mafia when he was essentially a glorified VT (but thought he was a doctor). Is there really any reason why he would lurk so hard as a PR in one game while playing a PR in another? No. Especially considering his end of the game comment in dresden (the i got a VT bit) shows that it's a role he doesn't care much to play, so his lurking here probably means VT or scum.

so yes, fucking hammer him

@absta:
no

[Bacde]

ok I have to show you guys this right now because this day could end at any second. Just notice how Nacho townreads me here:

bacde is town, ice is town, disturbed is town, jabberwock is town, jmo is town, melmond is town, iamusername is town

Yet is insisting that "other people" dislike my claim here:

1) So, we already have a PR claim that many people have announced that they dislike. I'm sure people wouldn't really like Shamrock's PR claim either, so we would have two scummy-looking claims at the end of Day 1, and approximately three days or so to create a wagon out of nowhere and lynch someone. It will probably be a mislynch that we will look back on and call stupid, but we couldn't stop the lynch because we needed a lynch. So then, with a stupid mislynch and someone killed overnight that is not any of our two PRs, what do we do? Leave them alive another night, let them survive until LyLo? And then figure out which one of them is scum? No, that will probably give us lower chances of winning than if we lynched Shamrock the PR right now >.>

Though it is true that ICENinja is continually stating that he would agree with lynching me, this seems a LOT like Nacho setting up for when I flip town.

Also note in his post that he is pretty much assuming that:
1)Shamrock will claim PR
2)Neither PRs will die at night if Shamrock claims PR
3)Only one of me/Shamrock is scum

Can we

PLEASE

lynch this guy tomorrow? How can he make those three assumptions without outside knowledge? Why is Nacho townreading me yet insisting that I am scummy?

[Nachomamma8]

Yet is insisting that "other people" dislike my claim here:

OTHER PEOPLE
not me
OTHER PEOPLE

1)Shamrock will claim PR

no, i am going through a worst case scenario IF SHAMROCK CLAIMS PR

2)Neither PRs will die at night if Shamrock claims PR

WORST CASE SCENARIO

3)Only one of me/Shamrock is scum

worst case scenario
if both of you are scum, then cool, hammer shamrock now

How can he make those three assumptions without outside knowledge?

Assumption 1: How would I know with outside knowledge? If I told Shamrock to claim PR if he was wagonned? But now I am pushing Shamrock to be hammered now, and not give my scumbuddy with a fakeclaim a chance to claim. Why would I do that?
Assumption 2: How would I know as scum? You're a bodyguard, right? Which means that you could successfully protect someone and die overnight?
Assumption 3: Okay, let's assume that I'm making this assumption. And I am pushing to lynch Shamrock. And I lynch Shamrock. He flips scum. Now you are town and I cannot push you because of my assumption. So...?

you say that I am making assumptions that I am not
you say that I have outside knowledge to be making this assumptions
but that knowledge doesn't help at all

[absta101]

@Nacho - We'll see about that.

[absta101]

@Nacho - Actually, why are you refusing to answer my question?

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho - Actually, why are you refusing to answer my question?

because my reads will change depending on what shamrock flips and what happens during the night
there's no reason for me to explain my secondary and tertiary reads now

[Bacde]

Nacho, I like how you are finally addressing me as a threat to your scumship. I'm not someone to be "hahahaha'd" lightly away, and you are finally realizing this aren't you? I really like how you are concentrating on your read of me as town (as though that will affect you being scum in any way). You KNOW I have a good case on you, so you finally have to address my points. I KNEW I'd catch you.

OTHER PEOPLE
not me
OTHER PEOPLE

Blaming other people, focussing on having a townread of me. Guess what, having a townread on me won't stop the thunder. Why is it so important for you to emphasize both that YOU specifically have a townread on me, but that other people don't?

1)Shamrock will claim PR

no, i am going through a worst case scenario IF SHAMROCK CLAIMS PR

You didn't say that, and now you are backtracking. Its ok, go ahead and flail loud enough for everyone in the thread to see. You got away the first time but now you are seriously caught.

2)Neither PRs will die at night if Shamrock claims PR

WORST CASE SCENARIO

Again, something you were caught on. I like how you respond to my really good arguments in all caps. It lets me know that I'm hitting close to home.

3)Only one of me/Shamrock is scum

worst case scenario
if both of you are scum, then cool, hammer shamrock now

My vote is on shamrock, no need to tell me to hammer him. Why would you imply that only one out of me/shamrock is scum? You slipped bro, plain and simple.

How can he make those three assumptions without outside knowledge?

Assumption 1: How would I know with outside knowledge? If I told Shamrock to claim PR if he was wagonned? But now I am pushing Shamrock to be hammered now, and not give my scumbuddy with a fakeclaim a chance to claim. Why would I do that?
Assumption 2: How would I know as scum? You're a bodyguard, right? Which means that you could successfully protect someone and die overnight?
Assumption 3: Okay, let's assume that I'm making this assumption. And I am pushing to lynch Shamrock. And I lynch Shamrock. He flips scum. Now you are town and I cannot push you because of my assumption. So...?

you say that I am making assumptions that I am not
you say that I have outside knowledge to be making this assumptions
but that knowledge doesn't help at all

1) Yes, exactly those things. And because you are worried about looking town, which you have been interested in doing the WHOLE GAME. And lets be real, you just slipped that Shamrock is scum.
2) Scum know more about who is going to die at night than town do.
3) Why are you focusing on your belief that I am town, rather than my argument that you are scum? You see, I'm not worried about looking like I'm town. And I really don't give a

[removed]

if you read me as town, because you are scum. You are focusing on the wrong thing. I caught you

slip

bro. How would you know that only 1 out of me and Shamrock are scum?

Why is your defense that "outside knowledge wouldn't help me" rather than "I don't have outside knowlege"? This post reeks of "I'm caught but disagree with your reasoning" mentality.

[Dunhamganger]

I'm going to need to replace out here; I just got full-timed at work and I'm modding besides. Sorry to all involved.

<3

[Cheery Dog]

Also note in his post that he is pretty much assuming that:
1)Shamrock will claim PR

He was also answering the question asked about why he wanted a hammer without a claim.
(the second and third points are also meh, but at least they could be classed as assumptions if it happens, but this first one here is just stupid when the point of the post was a response to what if he claimed PR)
You seem to have missed some of the context of that post.

[Jabberwock]

Shamrock

has

been online. Maybe not in the last 48 hours, but I know he was online in time to watch our Post 307. That was L-1, and he didn't see fit to post anything afterward.

He's not playing like he did in Dresden Files Mafia, where he thought he was a doctor. He's not playing like he did in Mafia in Triplicate, where he was a VT. He's lurking scum.


<)≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈(''\≈(ºwº)_/'')

(Look, don't try to argue Wonderland anatomy with me.)


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[ICEninja]

Bacde's recent attack on Nacho feels off to me. Can't quite put my finger on it.

I'm good with lynching Shamrock now.

[Disturbed_One]

Melmond looks town, I'm not quite convinced either way on Cheery Dog atm.

These arguments between Nacho and Bacde read very much so like town vs. town to me. Shamrock is almost 100% confirmed scum, I can't really see Nacho as scum if Shamrock is scum.