Gay Mafia II: RIDE THE LIGHTNING (Game Over)

[Om of the Nom]

I was going for Om having flexible read depending on if a wagon on pretentiousdra is viable.

I've stated for most of the game that the only lynch I'd really consider on them would be a policy lynch. The only reason they aren't a full townread is because I find something odd about all the Wyrd business.

[Iecerint]

I mean do you think there's any actual point where fate WOULDN'T have claimed it in the thread? What do you think I expected to get out of it as scum? Fate dead? If I was that afraid of him I'd just night kill him?

I think you originally meant it as a joke and then neglected to clarify when it was headed in an anti-town way without your further involvement. Well, I KNOW you did that (joke benefit-of-the-doubt notwithstanding), but I'm assuming the reason you didn't clarify is because you're scum.

[One Direction]

But to what end would I not clarify? What was my nefarious scum goal? To gain negative attention?

[One Direction]

I mean I get the feeling we're just going in circles actually because I'm obviously not going to agree with you because I know you're wrong.

[One Direction]

I mean the theory is I'm sloppy/going to be sloppy about that as scum but I think it's literally the opposite and I'm far more thoughtful as scum and that's obvious from my scum games but I think I'm just being brick walled because you've kind of made up your mind I'd not do that as town.

[Iecerint]

What you did was sneaky, not sloppy. You were letting CHESSKID and Katsuki be the public face of the wagon.

[One Direction]

Are you seriously suggesting my initial proposal would never have came out? That's ridiculous. (And pretty bad scum play)

[vollkan]

How? Quilford claimed he'd done something for X reason. X reason did not appear to make sense. So I questioned him about it.

Yes, it didn't end up being a smoking gun, but that doesn't mean it was "silly" - nor does it mean I was "trying too hard" (hint: "The Interrogator" is my title for a reason)

It was dragged out far too long for how little sense it made as a push.

Time-wise, it lasted 45 minutes.

If you want to talk about things that don't make sense lasting too long, maybe try looking at the first 15 pages of this game.

More constructively:
- Quilford's 343 contained two relevant points:
1) Impliedly, that the p-dra wagon had a risk of going to lynch; and
2) Expressly, that Quilford had decided p-dra was town.

- 1) above was plainly false and 2) was unexplained
- In 350, quilford then added that the reason for the unvote was to "free" his vote. This doesn't make sense because, like I said, you're just as free to move your vote to a player when you are voting somebody else as you are when you are not voting anybody
- 355: I respond to Quilford's argument that the wagon was getting high (It wasn't)
- 361 is just me clarifying the same point about "freeing" (which Quilford argued was being too technical)
- 369: he explained at least the fact that he was compiling the list, so I ended pursuit there.

You can stop explaining. I understand it I just think it's stupid.

Look, Ythan, I get that the swaggering/macho behaviour is part of your schtick, but this is just ridiculous.

An argument is either right or wrong - there's no separate third category of "it's stupid". The reason I kept explaining it is to see whether or not you actually had any logical reason for disagreeing with me - and it's clear that you don't.

Insecure? No, not at all. I've just never played in a game this large before - not only that, but I'm lazy. It's kinda hard to produce something new and original when there's a bunch of other players trying to do the same thing. So, yes, if I find something that I genuinely agree with then yes I'm going to use the words of others to place my vote. Why should I simply repeat something that's already been said without quoting it? Seems pointless.

And the laziness/inexperienced risk is the reason why it's not a damning tell, but that doesn't change the fact that the apparent absence of any original analysis in your attacks is suggestive of you trying to cover your arse.

Ahh. Honestly, didn't see that. Really thought Vollkan and Kuribo, who had just got done grilling him for a small thing, were both voting him.

Either way, it wasn't very difficult to use their arguments to try and start one.

ThunderHog+3

Starting a wagon is completely different from questioning, and trying to conflate them by saying that the questioning made it not very hard to start a wagon is just a weak means of trying to conflate the two. You got proven wrong on this, and your response is to merge the two things to defend your original, refuted, claim.

UNVOTE:

have at it kuribo and vollkan; with 40 pages i don't even know who to place a vote on

What do you think of my ThunderHog case?

This game is a spamfest, but there IS alignment-useful content scattered gem-like throughout. It's just a shame that 99% of it is spam from BS personality clashes.

How? Quilford claimed he'd done something for X reason. X reason did not appear to make sense. So I questioned him about it.

Yes, it didn't end up being a smoking gun, but that doesn't mean it was "silly" - nor does it mean I was "trying too hard" (hint: "The Interrogator" is my title for a reason)

It was dragged out far too long for how little sense it made as a push.

Time-wise, it lasted 45 minutes.

If you want to talk about things that don't make sense lasting too long, maybe try looking at the first 15 pages of this game.

More constructively:

- Quilford's 343 contained two relevant points:
1) Impliedly, that the p-dra wagon had a risk of going to lynch; and
2) Expressly, that Quilford had decided p-dra was town.

- 1) above was plainly false and 2) was unexplained

- In 350, quilford then added that the reason for the unvote was to "free" his vote. This doesn't make sense because, like I said, you're just as free to move your vote to a player when you are voting somebody else as you are when you are not voting anybody
- 355: I respond to Quilford's argument that the wagon was getting high (It wasn't)
- 361 is just me clarifying the same point about "freeing" (which Quilford argued was being too technical)
- 369: he explained at least the fact that he was compiling the list, so I ended pursuit there.

Here's something I was looking for.

This answers one of your questions Quilford.

1. wasn't plainly false to me, call it the heat of the moment
2. unexplained =/= reasonless. it just happens that i didn't put my reasons in the unvote post, because i didn't think it was worth the effort.

THEN SUDDENLY I AM SCUM FOR UNVOTING WITHOUT REASONS WHOOPS

Quilford+3

1) is a very evasive answer. "wasn't plainly false" does NOT at all mean the same thing as "You believed it to be true". Heat of the moment/not thinking it, I can accept, but that doesn't invalidate the argument (just qualifies the extent of scumminess)

MattP is obvtown

Why?

Iece, you'll note I never said fate/nuwen scumslipped, just that their posting was akin to a scumclaim. There was no "slip" and Kats was sticking to the fake that he slipped plan at that point in town, which is obviously not going to work now.

That doesn't make him any less scum, but no, there was no scumslip like HEY GUYS NICE MAFIA QT. Just some scummy scummy posts

Somebody used the word "slip" before, but whatever. If Fate said something super scummy, then just explain what the nature of it was. In simple, clear language.

So much freaking ink has been spilled over this, when the easiest thing to do would just be to post a proper explanation and let everybody else weigh in,.

The QT makes it clear that Fate's description of what was going on was basically accurate. There's no way that that entire mentality came from town. The next step is to identify which hydra is scum.

TownKatsuki actually faked an (inaccurate) guilty on me once as town, so I can imagine Katsuki just being a mean asshat town player with an inflated opinion of his own skill. I don't know if CHESSKID has ever done or contemplated something so stupid as town, but he has the kind of ego where I wouldn't totally put it past him.

TownFaraday would not have let that happen, let alone propose it, and if he meant the proposal as a joke (regardless of alignment), as town he would have stopped it before things got out of hand. The fact that he let it go like that totally changes my read. I think he's the most likely hydra scum.

Vote: One Direction

OneDirection+5

Sheeping

[dramonic]

The QT makes it clear that Fate's description of what was going on was basically accurate. There's no way that that entire mentality came from town. The next step is to identify which hydra is scum.

TownKatsuki actually faked an (inaccurate) guilty on me once as town, so I can imagine Katsuki just being a mean asshat town player with an inflated opinion of his own skill. I don't know if CHESSKID has ever done or contemplated something so stupid as town, but he has the kind of ego where I wouldn't totally put it past him.

TownFaraday would not have let that happen, let alone propose it, and if he meant the proposal as a joke (regardless of alignment), as town he would have stopped it before things got out of hand. The fact that he let it go like that totally changes my read. I think he's the most likely hydra scum.

Vote: One Direction

OneDirection+5

Sheeping

Huh?

[Iecerint]

1. If CHESSKID or Kawaii tried to blame you for a Wyrd town flip after what they did in-thread, they would be lynched immediately.

2. Your initial proposal was in keeping with the jokey context of the QT thread and was pretty blameless/construable as a joke on its own, so I don't think your attempts to construe it as "too edgy for FaradayScum" makes sense, either.

PEDIT -- Vollkan's saying he agrees with my reasoning on OneDirection.

[Sir Elton Hercules John]

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19b)

QTs and Private Communication:

If it is a moderator provided method of communication (i.e., neighbor QT, or masons who can daytalk and use AIM)

do not quote it in the thread

. Obviously, do not provide links to the QT in any way shape or form.

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[Gammagooey]

hey iec please be a cool dude for me who shares interesting opinions on people that aren't hydras

[One Direction]

1. If CHESSKID or Kawaii tried to blame you for a Wyrd town flip after what they did in-thread, they would be lynched immediately.

Why would you think Wyrd would not say it before their death?

[One Direction]

I mean that's not even a point. If hypodeadtown wyrd said it it'd still not be taken seriously? That's just dumb.

[Sir Elton Hercules John]

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zoraster is V/LA until 12/18
whispersilk has not posted, therefore she is being replaced.

[Iecerint]

hey iec please be a cool dude for me who shares interesting opinions on people that aren't hydras

I think I would really have to have a compelling reason to lynch someone who isn't in [OneDirection, PretentiousHydra, Kawaii] today. I would basically only do it at deadline.

Looking through the playerlist, I don't have particularly warm feelings about Drench, Quilford, or maybe Nacho, though it's just gut. I think it's that they either don't seem to want to engage with the game or seem focused on aspects of the game that I don't find as compelling. Seems funky.

I thought Zoidberg was scum until the post-Wyrd stuff, when he became the only sane man in the game. It felt genuine. I also agree with DGB about his "anger cool-down" post. Ythan I thought was town until his Wyrd vote, which I'm not convinced by despite his "Wyrd saga knowledge made me vote Wyrd" story, since I had the opposite impression at the time.

Thunderhog had one really scummy post, but the stuff after that hasn't bothered me as much. I don't think BT is scummy. I'm pretty null on DeltaWave/Zoraster/whisperslot/JacobSavage. The rest are town reads.

[Wyrd]

"Why would I do that as scum"
-games by Faraday

The VC has made me pleased

<3 you too reck

[Pretentiousdra]

hey Jacob I see you posting on site and signing up for more games

how about you play the ones you're in instead?

[ThunderHog]

Unvote

Post-psychotic explosion, Zoidy is actually starting to be useful and making sense. I'm not quite convinced on OD wagon yet - since it seems mainly to be based on metagaming information that I don't know, considering that I've never played in a game with any of the heads of said hydra. However, the WIFOM argument that OD is retaliating with is getting kind of annoying.

Dunno why anyone wants to lynch DW either. I don't see scummy, I see bad player. Then again, I'm one to talk, huh?

BT's stoicism is convincing me of his towniness. A scum provided with the kind of BS that I threw at him would be actively trying to cut my head off. It's true that he's currently voting me, but the fact that he's been quiet for this long and not trying to get more people on my wagon is what I'm going on here.

As for P-dra - I simply hate him. It's completely 100% personal too, therefore I have no reason to put a vote there other than the fact that it would simply make me feel better considering that it's all I can do to express my hate towards him / them.

Other than that, well you have a brain, don't you? Use it.

[Gammagooey]

hey iec please be a cool dude for me who shares interesting opinions on people that aren't hydras

I think I would really have to have a compelling reason to lynch someone who isn't in [OneDirection, PretentiousHydra, Kawaii] today. I would basically only do it at deadline.

I think this is fundamentally gross unless you think that 2 of the 3 are scum together which is I guess plausibleish but not really substantiated by anything that exists imo.

Also I think that Thunderhog is scumz and you should vote him. I guess I could point to the post he just made but I dislike the earlier ones more so go look at those instead.

[Zoidberg]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4540869 please explain why you were iso'ing us in particular in the first place.

lol? "Please explain why u were reading the game" are you serious?

First of all dram asked everyone to iso you. Secondly I specifically iso'd all the hydras (well, haven't got to SPB yet but it'll come) after the QT got posted. Are you implying that I wouldn't have a good reason to iso you?

Who else have you ISO'd?

Almost everybody

fyi can you explain the basis of things like this why is there exactly one scum as opposed to zero? have you never seen two townies argue. you said the same earlier w/ regard to trollie and slb and I just don't get why you assume things like that. walk me through the thought process that led to your conclusion

I'm not automatically assuming anything. It doesn't read like town v town, and it doesn't read like two scum bussing each other. DGB went for the jugular and I don't think scum would push that hard.

I could imagine one scum family vs another, perhaps, or scum vs sk. But like I said: DGB's been making coherent arguments that agree with my own reads and are internally consistent with the rest of what she says, so I get town from DGB, so at least from my perspective I'm ruling that out.

You can call it "me-too'ing" if you want, but I'm not really too concerned what you think since my vote is on you and I wouldn't expect you to come back with anything other than "lol zoidberg is a retard newbscum lolbad" or whatever. It's standard tactics that when one of your attackers agrees with another attacker, you accuse them of being scum who is sheeping and me-too'ing, so, go right ahead with that tactic.

[Zoidberg]

The thing I think is scummy about Zoidy is that he never follows through with his questions. He just asks them a lot and never does anything with them. It's just fake content.

I can only think of one or two that I didn't follow through on, mostly because the game was/is moving so fast that by the time I came back to the thread they weren't really relevant any more.

[Zoidberg]

bad player

Trying my best.

[One Direction]

Are you implying that I wouldn't have a good reason to iso you?

No.

It doesn't read like town v town, and it doesn't read like two scum bussing each other.

What parts doesn't read town v town?

DGB's been making coherent arguments that agree with my own reads and are internally consistent with the rest of what she says, so I get town from DGB, so at least from my perspective I'm ruling that out.

Which particular arguments of hers have you found sound?

You can call it "me-too'ing" if you want, but I'm not really too concerned what you think since my vote is on you and I wouldn't expect you to come back with anything other than "lol zoidberg is a retard newbscum lolbad" or whatever. It's standard tactics that when one of your attackers agrees with another attacker, you accuse them of being scum who is sheeping and me-too'ing, so, go right ahead with that tactic.

Yes I am calling everyone voting for me scum, trying to play it off as me just picking on you JUST because your voting me is pretty inaccurate.


P.s. what did you think of DGB accusing me of OMGUS, Zoidberg?

[Om of the Nom]

The thing I think is scummy about Zoidy is that he never follows through with his questions. He just asks them a lot and never does anything with them. It's just fake content.

I can only think of one or two that I didn't follow through on, mostly because the game was/is moving so fast that by the time I came back to the thread they weren't really relevant any more.

The first half of your ISO basically.