Open 459: There is a New Scum in Town. Game Over Town Wins!

[Lastsurvivor]

UNVOTE:

Need to reread this game. Hopefully will do that soon.

[pirate mollie]

Just for the sake of argument, this was what I'd written when I realized that I was a n idiot, and heading down the wrong track:

Spoiler: Wall of Crud

...

Okay, listen here, chucklenuts. If anybody is going to tell me I suck, it'd better be my own damn self, or at least some other person not currently riding the express train to Crazy Town.

You want changed playstyle? You'll have your fucking changed playstyle.

Let's take your problems with my previous post first, shall we? "An appeal to emotion", you call it, because I dare speculate upon the scum distribution on my wagon. Because I, in my own words, call it a mislynch. Well, champ, there's a wee fucking problem with that; namely, the fact that

any

conscientious townie would call the wagon on them a mislynch, because that's what it'd bloody be, by merit of them not being scum! "Aha," you might then say, "But how can we know that you're town?" Well, dearie, you can't. For now. But chances are, or at least were, that I might end up hammered anyhow, and if that were to be the case, I figured that perhaps I'd get a few thoughts jotted down before one such event took place, as you'd then, later, know for a fact that these opinions did not, in fact, originate with any person playing as scum - I'd be dead, but I'd also be a confirmed townie, so you'd have that to work with.

Elementary? I dare say, yes.

Now, on to the actual game itself. Let us start with the person whom I am currently voting, shall we? Pirate Mollie, yes:

I thought, at least initially, that she'd be town, if only due to her absolutely ridiculous reaction to the "Daykill", but I have seen almost no investigative scumhunting from her side. "How do you think this person looks?", "I think that so and so", "IMO this is that" and so on, and so forth. There is no substance to her posts, no proper arguments, no solid positions she's taking. It feels as if she's doing her outmost to stay on everyone's good side, which is just not what town ought to. She's reacting to others, yes, but where is her own initiative? Look at her ISO, just skim it if nothing else, and consider what I said.

But fine. If y'all think she's stupidly town, so be it. At the moment, I'm trying to find arguments for anyone being scum, and conversely, for why they're not - Town constantly goes bugfuck insane by focusing on one person, and being unable to ignore them until they're dead. That's good, if they're scum, but more often than not, they aren't. So let us say Mollie is town, then, for now. And let us look at others.

KMD, I believe, has already been covered, so I'll ignore him for now. Nobody Special is hard to say much about, as he hasn't said much himself. I would leave him be for now, and hold him accountable tomorrow instead, for I reckon that will prove far more beneficial. Fe is dead, and hardly merits much comment, and thus we come to you.

You haven't been too consistent, lately. [This is when I tried to find arguments that supported this, found none, decided to shut up and multiply]

hey maenara...stop fucking misrepping me okay? the potential for me to go nuclear on your ass is pretty high and rachmarie has already said she wants to try to keep it somewhat civil.

I fingered fe on d1 for rolefishing. malacat shut that convo down which made her look specially and probably why she was nk. have you put that together yet? after mala shut down the convo I to defend myself against dummies who were trying to say that

I

was the one doing the rolefishing when it should be obvious that I wasn't I was going after fe for it.

I think fe fucked up with his mini-list. I have said that since the start of the day. I personally would rather lynch nobody special - hello does anyone see this person skating cos I do! he is avoiding this game like the plague while posting in other ones. do you want to see who is not scumhunting? him. and people are giving him a pass.

the only thing that is throwing a spanner in my pet theory (and I think we should at least give my pet theory a try) is nacho's hard wking of of majiffy. from what I have noticed those 2 tend to go at it and in this game they are kind of staying away from each other. plus nacho's arguments are terrible like really, he isn't making any sense.

but I am sticking with my pet theory, I am good with either a kmd or a nobody special lynch. I am even backpedaling on my town read on kmd in order to see if I am on to something. majiffy is in that pet theory too but I do not want to test my theory out on him in case I am wrong. games are boring without majiffy.

I do not need to post long winded posts in order to prove I am scumhunting I scumhunt through interactions I have with other players along with looking at their posts and determining if they are town motivated. you know this we have been over it in 2 games I even provided a total of 18 links where I was town and scum and my playstyle is pretty much the same. it changes a bit when I am dealing with different people but most of it is the same.

the problem you have with me is with my playstyle and that sucks for town cos I am going to take a stab that you are town too or you would not be trying to push for my lynch with the retarded reasons you have so generously provided. it especially sucks for me cos I was enjoying this game and I was here first. you coming in with a predetermined bias cos you don't like me is just shitty and douchey and I again appeal to the better part of yourself and not sign-up or sub into any game that I am in if you are going to want me out of the game based on personality alone.

also you shouldn't try to use meta unless you are a very experienced player so unless you have been lying about being so new then you probably should not use it.

I think kmd looks more town than nobody special so i am back onto nobody special. he has been doing the thread avoidance thing and I suspect actively lurking.

UNVOTE: kmd

VOTE: nobody special

[RachMarie]

Nobody Special has been prodded.

[uctriton00]

KMD is how Fizz was being; gathering up votes and then scaling back.

Maenara, you have anything with that vote or are you playing RVS on page 34

[buldermar]

I'm still happy with where my vote is fwiw.

[the director]

[quote="In post 828
Maenara, you have anything with that vote or are you playing RVS on page 34[/quote]

Are you calling her terribad vote on you scummy?

[uctriton00]

It's screwing with my original town opinion on her, yes.

[the director]

I feel ya man. I think everyone that votes me might be scum too. I mean what gives her the right to vote you? Fist bump broski.

[the director]

UNVOTE:

Need to reread this game. Hopefully will do that soon.

You do realize that the Fe strategy of "attempting to post but not really post but posting because I'm here" has a bad track record, right?

[the director]

Also LS, to strap-hang onto my last post, you knew enough about the game to unvote (because KMD wagon lol amirite) but you need to re-read the game. Methinks you read the game and you are scared, and are trying to go underground.

[Lastsurvivor]

You do realize that the Fe strategy of "attempting to post but not really post but posting because I'm here" has a bad track record, right?

Ok.

PEDIT: What are you talking about? What the hell does "because KMD wagon lol amirite" mean? I'm not voting KMD. I need to reread because atm I have zero confident scum reads.

Just keep on spewing out shit to plaster on to your weak ass case on me (you actually don't even have a case but whatever. Actually you're sheeping on my wagon even though you've been complaining about how other people are sheeping).

[Lastsurvivor]

PEDIT: *I wasn't voting KMD.
Tenses suck.

[the director]

Oh right you were voting Mae. It is so hard to keep track of what wagon you sheep are on. Replace KMD with Mae and it will all make sense again. Sincerest apologies.

I find it interesting that you had to have a PEDIT for my two posts that were literally 4 minutes apart. Good lordy you sound so much like Fe. Mention your name and POOF the wonderchild appears.

So how is that re-read coming along?

[Lastsurvivor]

Coincidence that I just happened to look at thread when you were doing some mental gymnastics to say why I'm scum like...hey...you just did in your last post.

I like to compile reads once I've read everyone, but I can tell you that Bork is town.

Buldermar's KMD vote looks suspicious since he never mentioned KMD at all before that vote and he doesn't provide any reasoning for it. He said he's happy with his vote but still doesn't say why. I'll have to read everyone else before I decide if he's scum or not.

[the director]

Random bork mention is kinda weird

[Lastsurvivor]

I'm doing ISOs and going alphabetically. I read Bork's then Buldermar's.

[Nobody Special]

Prod received.

unvote

I'm going to need to go back and look at some specific things, but LS is looking quite scummy with his recent posts.

[Kmd4390]

Gonna catch up tomorrow. I think I saw a couple LastSurvivor votes. I like that.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, looking back, it looks like I responded to mollie thinking it was director on the cold hard fact thing. My bad.

Penguin, I see what you are saying about mollie in my analysis. There was a point against mollie, but I just don't think that's as strong as what some other players have done. If I focus on other players and mollie is scum, it just means I wasn't able to properly separate bad town from scum. I do have it stored in the back of my mind though, so mollie isn't getting a pass or anything. I'm just more focused on my Uct/Last theory and can't accept NS or fizzslot as likely town.

--------------------------

Last, the fact that you were scumhunting by looking at the wagon you were on makes it look like you didn't believe in your vote. If I see people pile on a wagon that I'm in support of, I'll take note if something stands out, but unless it's scummier than the reason I'm voting where I am, I'll let it slide until the person I'm voting looks town or the other person voting them looks scummier than the person I'm voting. It's possible that it's just a playstyle difference, but it's hard to see you voting someone you think is scum, then questioning someone for voting the same person without a thought of "are they bussing or am I voting town?". And yes, I think your Fe vote was a last ditch bus. That's one of the main ways I look for scum after a scum flip. The way people reacted to the wagon and the interactions (which reminds me I may still ISO Fe if I get bored one day).

I don't vote replacements based on their original slot owners, so it would have been useless to vote his replacee.

Uhhhhh. You DO realize that the guy that replaced Fizz got the same Role PM as Fizz, right? 0_o

On your quotes at Fe, the first two look like throwaway comments just to say you called him scum when he flips, which you are doing now. The third mostly looks fake, but I'll give you that the "maybe twenty second" thing looks a bit less like scum on scum.

--------------------------

LS you probably should answer this cause

Majiffy knows a thing or two about bussing

.

Please explain bolded.

--------------------

I finally just saw what this flowchart thing is all about... Kinda dumb.

It'll come back around eventually, when the mood strikes.

How is the mood striking you

now

?

-----------------------

I stand by that statement unless anyone wants to explain how pushing for someone's lynch based solely off of an accusation of bussing is valid.

See this:

It's called associative tells. And we have a scum flip.

Congratulations! Scumhunting 101!

Unvote, Vote LastSurvivior

. This is better.

[the director]

@KMD - In a game I played with Majiffy he bussed his partner over the course of two days, as in he literally tried to get his scum buddy killed D1, and when he failed, he tried again and succeeded D2. I know there are no heroes among thieves, but Majiffy takes that to an extreme. So my town read on Majiffy has nothing to do with the fact he was on the Fe wagon, in fact I so badly want to nail-gun a scum read on him and dance while he swings as I laugh like a crazy person, but he is town due to the fact the Fe was answering everything Majiffy said to him. Paranoid scum don't like talking to other scum, but they do like talking to town, especially those as aggressive as Majiffy.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, noted. Good to know.

[the director]

But if you want to lynch him I'm totally on board. In fact if you can gather 5 of your closest friends in this game so we can do it I'd hammer without a question.

[Majiffy]

Well if that wasn't a scummy succession of posts I don't know what is.

[Lastsurvivor]

Will respond to Kmd's stuff later but first...

----

In general, I'm pretty sure that Bork, Director, Kmd, Peng, Mollie, Maj are town. They are in order of decreasing towniness.

NS, Uct, Buldermar, and Nacho I could see being scum. Increasing order of scumminess.

NS is generally null but I don't understand his vote hop, as others have said. He goes from saying the Fe lynch is crazy -> voting Fe -> saying he likes his vote where it is -> voting Nacho -> voting Fe again. I don't understand why his Fe vote switched in the first place, because he justified his vote before switching to Nacho.

KMD has basically covered all my gripes with Uct. I don't understand why he defended Fizz after voting him nor his denial of Kmd being an information lynch despite him previously saying so. However, I don't think Scum-Uct would vote Fe so early. I don't see the motivation there.

Buldermar I believe I've already explained. He's nevermentioned Kmd before and yet he's voting him.

-------

Nacho's flip flop on Fe is scummy.

Fe is town, don't lynch him, the lynch is terrible.
Majiffy is probably town, Fizz is a ? but I will vote him to save Fe

Fourth post in the game...note the assertive defense of Fe. If Nacho were town, I would believe that he's read Fe's ISO and the points on him to be able to decide that the lynch was terrible.

#492, #494 are defenses of Fe. #492 is interesting because, although he defends Fe, he also probes at something he said. Normally I would believe that that means Nacho was beginning to doubt Fe.

But no, #496 he uses meta to defend Fe. #504, 506, and #514 he does the same thing. I reference these posts to reiterate my point: Nacho seemed confident in his defense of Fe.

Then, uh...

Thanks 'jiffy. You have my hammer as soon as my replacement catches up. But if anyone hammers before then I will be pretty sad and angry and vengeful.

Oh, now Nacho wants to lynch Fe. All it took was Majiffy quoting things from his ISO.

I don't buy it. Even if you didn't click the links because you're on your phone, just look at the first post I quoted and the last one. In #483, Nacho says the Fe lynch is terrible, which implies that he read the reasons for the lynch and disagrees with them. But in #518, all Nacho needed was a reiteration of those reasons in order to do a complete 180 in his Fe read. I just can't see that course of actions from a town perspective.

For the icing on the cake, #541. Note that this is after Nacho declared his intent to hammer Fe.

Today also isn't about Fe versus Fizz anymore, so it'd be nice if people went back to voting who they thought was scum and not their scumpick out of Fe/Fizz.

Why would he say this if he's already said he's going to vote Fe? Because he wants to take a last ditch effort to call off the wagon on his buddy.

VOTE: Nacho

[Lastsurvivor]

Sorry for long post. TL;DR: Nacho is scum because he flip flopped on his Fe read.

@Kmd:

Last, the fact that you were scumhunting by looking at the wagon you were on makes it look like you didn't believe in your vote. If I see people pile on a wagon that I'm in support of, I'll take note if something stands out, but unless it's scummier than the reason I'm voting where I am, I'll let it slide until the person I'm voting looks town or the other person voting them looks scummier than the person I'm voting. It's possible that it's just a playstyle difference, but it's hard to see you voting someone you think is scum, then questioning someone for voting the same person without a thought of "are they bussing or am I voting town?".

It's a playstyle difference. Plain and simple. On D1 I never think of teams. Also, yes, ISO Fe. It's pretty silly to look for interaction from only one side (i.e., looking at it from players -> Fe instead of Fe -> players).

Uhhhhh. You DO realize that the guy that replaced Fizz got the same Role PM as Fizz, right? 0_o

On your quotes at Fe, the first two look like throwaway comments just to say you called him scum when he flips, which you are doing now. The third mostly looks fake, but I'll give you that the "maybe twenty second" thing looks a bit less like scum on scum.

Yup, but I'm not going to vote someone based on their replacee's actions. They can't defend what their previous slot owner did.

Also, fine re: what you think of my posts. Just know that they were all genuine. I can't really provide anything more to convince you otherwise.

And if anyone's going to shout "LS, your voting Nacho based on his interactions with Fe. Why is it fair for him but not for you?" please read my next statement. What I did makes sense from a town perspective: My Fe read never wavered.

Nacho's read on Fe didn't waver -- it went from being solid town to solid scum.