Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Jal]

You realize that logic can just be reflected. If you argue it the same way it doesn't become better when I said it was bad before.
As for the no lynching thing while it's a wrong idea I've argued the same idea a ton off site where people generally play cautiously/don't see how a mislynch isn't worse.
Lastly have you ever played a game where you say someone is scum and everyone who disagrees with you is scum? I doubt it so want to clarify how me defending him is different from a townie thinking your accusations are wrong.

You don't even have a valid argument. You are just making assumptions and arguing it like it actually means something. So you've seen someone do X before. So what? What does it mean? Is it a town tell? A null tell? What is it?

You never even answered my question: Is Lurker a town read?

I know how people offsite think. I have seen them argue it before. This isn't Robert's first game here, though. I really haven't divined any sort of alignment just from that though.

Lastly, I

just

made a post to Lurker clearing up that negative reactions to a wagon doesn't necessarily mean scum. You obviously had to read that post just to respond to my point towards you. Don't pretend to be ignorant. I haven't even called you a scum read and already you're getting all up in your pants about the possibility that I may think so.

Still feelin' like Xis is scum for post 31?

@Xis

: I think Mehdi has the most negative reaction. I'll get back to you on my read on him though. Need the Chinese food guy to answer my leap question.

Robert's responses to me and my vote on Lurker seem kinda townish. He just seems confused by what's even going on there.

[Baby Spice]

Firstly, 72% of the first wagon to get to four votes in a game has scum on it. (Using the vote count posts to determine when that four votes occurred)
So
{Agent Ireland, Jal, Mogadishu Jones, Xisiqomelir} At least one scum in there.

<snip>

for lurking... wait

I'm glad you read four posts after your last one and decided you didn't need to play the game anymore.

<snip>

Holy crap somehow I missed posts 43-46.

I'm down for this

unvote: vote lurker

@lurker: regarding post #44, why did you feel the need to announce you weren't moving your vote?

I'm curious as to where this Lurker wagon will take us. In fact, I'm willing to help it along.

<snip>

So we have an obvious RVS vote, Bull shit misrepresentation as justification for a vote, blatant sheeping with a vague question to try and hide the sheeping, and blatant wagoning.

Leaving aside the sheeping/wagoning for the moment which are in the slightly scummy field of activities, Jal's post and vote just scream scum.

Unvote
Vote Jal

[Mehdi2277]

So what happened to your read on me spice (do you want to be called that or something else?) Curious how Xis's sheeping is better then Jal though when he did to get off pressuring someone who hadn't responded yet.

[Jal]

@Jal. If u really want to bring that game up. They were serously lucky to have that luck. 2 The town LOST the game still with lynching of scum day 1. So it dosent really help your case. Im talking about my exp on Ika Mafia.

Town losing down the line after lynching scum D1 I can assure you is not due to that lynch. Doesn't help your argument either.

@Baby Spice

Firstly, 72% of the first wagon to get to four votes in a game has scum on it. (Using the vote count posts to determine when that four votes occurred)
So
{Agent Ireland, Jal, Mogadishu Jones, Xisiqomelir} At least one scum in there.

Oh dear lord please show me where you get these stats and how the first wagon actually means there is scum. Also, one of those votes is RVS and not actually a "real" vote against Lurker at this time.

Also, what if the wagon actually

is

on scum? Do the stats stay the same then?

Curious: Lurker a town/null/scum read?

Jal's post and vote just scream scum.
Unvote
Vote Jal

If it screams scum, it should be no problem to tell me how it does then.

[Mehdi2277]

You don't even have a valid argument. You are just making assumptions and arguing it like it actually means something. So you've seen someone do X before. So what? What does it mean? Is it a town tell? A null tell? What is it?

You're pushing something as a scum tell without explaining how it occurs more commonly from scum.

You never even answered my question: Is Lurker a town read?

I did.

No

, but I still think the reasoning you're pushing is dumb. Sure scum have done it, but you're not rejecting the general statement. Treating early comments as still random isn't new from town either and either explain how it happens more often from new scum relatively then new town or it isn't a scum tell.

Lastly, I just made a post to Lurker clearing up that negative reactions to a wagon doesn't necessarily mean scum. You obviously had to read that post just to respond to my point towards you. Don't pretend to be ignorant. I haven't even called you a scum read and already you're getting all up in your pants about the possibility that I may think so.

Not necessarily. Scummy scum also love to just defend the shit out of random people thinking they're pro town.

Want to contradict more? Since my post on that came right after you said scum love to defend people a lot (and I'm the main defender so who else would that refer to).

Still feelin' like Xis is scum for post 31?

Vote still on although now with him sheeping you when he was trying to pressure someone but good luck for him doing that when you just unvote him.

[Baby Spice]

So what happened to your read on me spice (do you want to be called that or something else?) Curious how Xis's sheeping is better then Jal though when he did to get off pressuring someone who hadn't responded yet.

Happy with anything, though BS does lead to confusion with the phrase Bull Shit.

Still wondering why you appear to be concerned with Lurker attracting votes, since there doesn't appear to be specific concerns expressed. (You do post a lot and with context problems. I may have missed it)

Xis sheeping, well technically it's more wagoning, is blatant. There's no appearance of hiding it behind bogus reasoning. But as fairly blatant wagoning I think it's less likely scummy.

Jal, as the post itself should indicate, by going back through the completed mini game queue.
If the wagon is on scum, then history shows about 50% of the time it has scum on it.

Just the first wagon mind you. I never checked the others that occurred day 1.

Jal's post and vote just scream scum.
Unvote
Vote Jal

If it screams scum, it should be no problem to tell me how it does then.

My favorite way that people try to put down reasons they don't like. Skip quoting the reason and ask what it is.

Bull shit misrepresentation as justification for a vote

[Mehdi2277]

I'm concerned since A. they're not on someone I think is scummy and B. I completely disagree with the reasoning. On the blatant wagoning it's more of the fact he unvoted someone he was trying to pressure. The other thing is the fact Jal is leading the wagon so I just think of her as a bit better then who followed her on to it.

[Jal]

I'm going to clarify by what I meant by negative reactions. I more-so meant how divided the reactions are. I didn't expect it to start some sort of big conversation on it, and I'm very much intrigued there is.

You're pushing something as a scum tell without explaining how it occurs more commonly from scum.

I'm pushing someone for doing shit all, and yeah, some scum love to sit back and do shit all. You have to pressure people to learn what they are and him suddenly coming in and posting content (and only related to himself still) isn't helping to achieve town status either. You're trying to argue that sometimes some people like to do some things regardless of alignment. That isn't really an argument against my push.

Want to contradict more? Since my post on that came right after you said scum love to defend people a lot (and I'm the main defender so who else would that refer to).

Main Defender = scum, how?

Really curious as to

where I said that

.

I was just saying that in general. Been there and done that as scum before and I've seen plenty of my scum partners do the same. Do I think there is a possibility that is what you're doing? Sure. As I said later though, I'm not so sure.

Vote still on although now with him sheeping you when he was trying to pressure someone but good luck for him doing that when you just unvote him.

Why was it still on before then? Why him for sheeping me versus that Chinese food guy (I admit, I am too lazy to scroll back to see his name and I don't care enough)? Why not me? He was barely posting and you're telling me you still had enough reason to keep your vote on him the entire time for the Mhork dealio?

Pedit: You basically answered some of the last questions.

[Mehdi2277]

All to Jal in order of quotes:

As for the argument it's more of newer players thinking early discussion is relatively unimportant isn't new. What lurker did isn't very different from Robert's idea that no lynching is better day 1. Both show the idea that current discussion doesn't help much and while it's bad idea it is not a scummy idea.

You say some scum like to defend a lot. I'm the only defending him a lot. And I'm supposed to naturally understand it was meant in general vs at me?

I'm assuming all the questions for 104 are answered.

[Mehdi2277]

Actually for the before then question I had 0 reason to unvote him. He hadn't done anything to make me trust him more since when I gave the question nor did anyone else do something to make me think they're scummier.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug

: I read all of Dirty Dealing, so I sort of see where you're coming from. Do you think your perceptions of that game are more or less instructive from modding it rather than playing it? I'm having trouble phrasing this but I mean could you pick up on things more subtle than salamence faking a post-restriction?

Not really. If I pay much attention to anything other than the players' votes or the players talking to me, I make much of the same kinds of mental notes as a player (e.g. so and so's in trouble, so and so's really a driving force in this game). I find that modding

INHIBITS

picking up on tells. Players do not give the mod the same expectation to have an eye for detail as they do other players—you are really expected to keep an accurate vote count, post it regularly, make sure you process role actions right, and that's it. It's a bit like getting away with cheating from a test in theory—in practice, you're not doing the work and you don't learn how to come up with the answer yourself.

[Jal]

Jal, as the post itself should indicate, by going back through the completed mini game queue.
If the wagon is on scum, then history shows about 50% of the time it has scum on it.

Just the first wagon mind you. I never checked the others that occurred day 1.

I'd like to see these stats compiled. You keep throwing around different sort of stats. Is there a post on this or what? You haven't answered the rest of my questions regarding this also.

My favorite way that people try to put down reasons they don't like. Skip quoting the reason and ask what it is.

That's great, I see that. How is it mispresenting Lurker? How is saying...

I'm glad you read four posts after your last one and decided you didn't need to play the game anymore.

"bull shit misrepresentation" and please don't tell me you took the "read four posts" thing as being literal other than the meaning being he has deliberately chosen not to engage in meaningful conversation. How does this scream scum?

[Jal]

As for the argument it's more of newer players thinking early discussion is relatively unimportant isn't new. What lurker did isn't very different from Robert's idea that no lynching is better day 1. Both show the idea that current discussion doesn't help much and while it's bad idea it is not a scummy idea.

You say some scum like to defend a lot. I'm the only defending him a lot. And I'm supposed to naturally understand it was meant in general vs at me?

I can easily see what Robert is doing being associated with a newer player. I've seen it all the time and it's almost an expected discussion topic for most Newbie games. I wouldn't quite pin what Lurker did as thinking earlier/(then current) discussion as weak and and not helping much. It was more so like he was blowing everything off and just signing into the thread.

I'll give you the defending bit as I can see how you can interpret that.

[Mehdi2277]

Ok... So there was a joke with my username...

Ok then. It look like we are still in RVS, So I'll leave my vote for now.

Here's what he said. Last sentence where he calls the game still in rvs I'd consider him thinking the discussion is still weak.

[Jal]

I see that and I disagree with your interpretation. I also don't find that trait shown in newer players in general. My position remains the same and I want to see more from Lurker.

By-the-bye Nobody_Special, I see you posting elsewhere. you scummy scum you.

[Mogadishu Jones]

The more people negatively react to

three

votes on Lurker, one of which is a RVS vote, the more I'm liking this wagon.

So you're saying to more resistance, the more likely that the person is scum and scum-buddies defend each other?

Hey man, answer my question.

[Mogadishu Jones]

Since that calculater gave the exact same answer I don't think it correct.

@Jal. If u really want to bring that game up. They were serously lucky to have that luck. 2 The town LOST the game still with lynching of scum day 1. So it dosent really help your case. Im talking about my exp on Ika Mafia.

Lol no way we no lynch. Even if we mislynch we gain a plethora of information.

[Mogadishu Jones]

Firstly, 72% of the first wagon to get to four votes in a game has scum on it. (Using the vote count posts to determine when that four votes occurred)
So
{Agent Ireland, Jal, Mogadishu Jones, Xisiqomelir} At least one scum in there.

<snip>

for lurking... wait

I'm glad you read four posts after your last one and decided you didn't need to play the game anymore.

<snip>

Holy crap somehow I missed posts 43-46.

I'm down for this

unvote: vote lurker

@lurker: regarding post #44, why did you feel the need to announce you weren't moving your vote?

I'm curious as to where this Lurker wagon will take us. In fact, I'm willing to help it along.

<snip>

So we have an obvious RVS vote, Bull shit misrepresentation as justification for a vote, blatant sheeping with a vague question to try and hide the sheeping, and blatant wagoning.

Leaving aside the sheeping/wagoning for the moment which are in the slightly scummy field of activities, Jal's post and vote just scream scum.

Unvote
Vote Jal

Generally I find the first person to mention math is scum, and I'm giving the nolynch math people a pass.

[Jal]

Are you saying you find Sugar scummy or what?

[Lord Mhork]

I like

VOTE: Lurker

for thinking that he could just drop his vote and not help move the game from RVS.

Also I'm suspicious of mehdi for immediately claiming reaction fishing when pressured, and I'm pretty sure Jal is town here.

[Mogadishu Jones]

Are you saying you find Sugar scummy or what?

Who?

[Mehdi2277]

Mhork I never claimed reaction fishing. Skim too much?

[Mehdi2277]

Jal still confident in your lurker wagon considering how badly Mhork went on it?

[Mogadishu Jones]

But if youre asking about baby spice then yeah. Reasons=math

unvote

The speed of this wagon is ridiculous

[Mehdi2277]

So what other votes do you like? Currently Mhork and Xis both make good votes.