Open 459: There is a New Scum in Town. Game Over Town Wins!

[Nachomamma8]

buldermar do you plan on doing something interesting soon?

[buldermar]

buldermar do you plan on doing something interesting soon?

Like claiming scum?

In all seriousness, I don't really know what to do with this game. Do you have some specific questions to ask me? Something you would like my opinion of? In other games I've had an easy time replacing in, but I find myself a bit left behind in this one for some reason.

[Kmd4390]

He actually hopped on the initial fizz case though.

He hopped onto the initial fizz case, but backed off it later and started defending him.

I follow you up until him being town...

[Lastsurvivor]

He didn't make any "real posts" for the majority of the game. But when he showed up again, it was just more of the same crap. I'd expect that to reinforce your scumread or affect it in some way, but again, you ignored it until other people called it scummy.

Him prod-dodging was a null tell. He could have really been busy for all I knew...I'm not going to say "Omg I doubt you're too busy to post Fe," because there's no way I could have known.

Majiffy never specifically changed my mind, but he encouraged me to keep looking over Fe's posts. Originally I had him read as the type of player who would probably be too nervous to pull something like #361 as scum and it seemed like a pretty honest effort, but then I looked over 1298 and I saw how completely different his play was there, and I was pretty okay with hammering.

If you say so. Why didn't you bring any of that stuff about looking over his other games before?

You weren't even going to mention buldermar without him making a post? And then we he did and you found it townish (why did you find it townish?), you weren't going to bring him up then either?

Re the first question: Yes. I don't see how that's scummy or bad or even worth note.
Re second: Hist post #666 struck me as someone actually listening to reasons for/against a lynch.
Re third: Me not mentioning him was mostly just because I was too focused on Maj and in general I felt out of touch with this game. Hence why I didn't really comment when he did that bad KMD vote.

[Nachomamma8]

If you say so. Why didn't you bring any of that stuff about looking over his other games before?

Why would I? I was hammering him, it wasn't like I had to make a case or anything.

[Lastsurvivor]

Peng, I don't like how Majiffy was referring to my flip even though he was voting Maenara at the time. Maj insists that he still wanted Maenara lynched, but he didn't really mention her for awhile even though she was still making posts. Maj said those posts were unnoteworthy, which I find hard to believe since she changed her votes a few times and made actual noteworthy posts (like the "Wall of crud").

My theory is that Maj thought he was voting me when he made that statement and when I called him out on it he just decided to argue that he still wanted Maenara lynched even though lots of evidence points to the contrary. But that doesn't have to be true for Maj to be scum.

Kmd,

I don't have fancy statistics or anything to prove this, but I feel like I've seen more scum keep their buddies as scum reads without voting them until they are going to be lynched anyway than I've seen them completely change a read like that. And I feel like I've seen more town go from a town read on scum to a scum read as cases are presented. Scum like to keep their reads consistent because it looks town for whatever reason. A good townie will change their reads quite a bit as more information becomes available.

My problem with Nacho is that there was no new information to encourage a town -> scum flip. Just a rearrangement of the information already given.

PEDIT: @Nacho: No, I mean why didn't you mention that in your last few posts where you've been explaining why you switched your Fe read? Saying that your read was influenced by Fe's meta seems like an important thing to bring up before now.

[Nachomamma8]

I follow you up until him being town...

The entire process looks town to me. The initial suspicion to sort of a revelation that "hey, this guy is playing how I used to" to a bit of paranoid leanings after he's already defended him. I think scumUCT would end up pushing to mislynch him or white knighting him; don't think he would pull something like what he's ended up with as scum.

LS, I haven't taken your suspicion very seriously until recently. So my responses have been more dismissive than actually trying to assuage your suspicions. But now I'm seeing you town as a possibility, so I'm being a bit more cooperative.

[buldermar]

Nachooooo y u no answer me?

[Nachomamma8]

shit i don't know what to ask of you
this game is kind of strange. i just wondered if you were lurking or lost.

[buldermar]

The latter of the two.

[the director]

Good fish sticks can someone put this scum at L-1 so I can hammer?

[Majiffy]

Speaking of interesting posts...

[Kmd4390]

Last, every post is new information. More tells to see, cases made, votes placed, etc.

Nacho, ok. At the very least, I can follow your thought process. I can't say I'm swayed, but I see where you are coming from with that.

Director, I would but I'm already voting him.

[pirate mollie]

Why?

scum don't usually give reads right before they go down. they run the risk of possibly highlighting their scummates or clearing town. he is actively fosing majiffy and nacho.

[uctriton00]

Good fish sticks can someone put this scum at L-1 so I can hammer?

Errr.... if you think someone is scum, why does it matter

[Kmd4390]

Mollie, they do if they want to look just town enough to let a wagon form elsewhere.

[Nobody Special]

You acted like my flip was going to happen. And you didn't say it,

but you certainly implied that it was going to happen soon. Like today.

You can argue that that doesn't mean I'm your highest scum read. But why would you act like a secondary scum read's flip was going to happen sometime soon? And why would you be considering connectional tells (i.e., Nacho is scum if LS is scum) if I was only a secondary scum read?

Bolded: Not really. You're just reading into it like that because you're an idiot.

Well, then, I'm an idiot, too, because that's how I read it.

qualia

I love you. Never leave me.


Anyway, prod received. As Rach said, RL stuff has been being real.

I'm happy with LS as scum, Nacho as town, and pretty much everyone else leaning one way or the other.

Vote: Lastsurvivor

L-1, hammer at will.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie, they do if they want to look just town enough to let a wagon form elsewhere.

what do you think the likelihood of a second bw forming on someone other than him is? not very high IMO the votes are alll spread out. in fact the lack of a competing bw is somewhat worrisome cos it means town is not coming together like it should if last flips town. it seems to me that he is being lynched for poor reasoning and yet it is poor reasoning that is being to lynch him in the first place which I find kind of funny.

last strikes me as an experienced player and an experienced player knows when they are going down. so as scum it is hard to imagine that he would ignore the golden rule of don't incriminate your teammates and don't give town any wriggle room as far handing out town reads. if he flips scum I would be surprised.

I think maenara looks objectively scummier if I abandoned my pet theory for five minutes. her votes look opportunistic as fuck. first she votes for you and I probably need to look at that early wagon and see who was on it and why if I go with my gut and give you a town read. if you are scum then aiyiyi you are good very good. you look and sound exactly what I would expect town to say. I really liked post #942, there is so much in that post that I agree with that it makes me want to pepper it with cheerleader smilies. we have a similar set of ideas about the game and how it is played but all of that is null cos good scum could pull that off to.

back to maenara, her next vote was on me but reasons she could not adequately explain. "mollie always looks scummy to me" holds no weight when you cannot back it up and she couldn't. I think she was counting on my unlikeableness to try to push for a lynch which attracted a majiffy vote. she dropped her case on me like a hot potato and I have pushed her and she has not pushed back and is now looking for a convenient bw to switch to (last's) in order to avoid the Eye of Majiffy. that is scummy behaviour. if maenara flips scum then I would move majiffy into the firm town category cos his timing was good with that. if maenara flips scum I would take a harder look at the director only because he seemed absolutely jubilant that I had momentarily put maenara in my town category and went after majiffy after giving him a town read without any good indication as to why. majiffy had not done anything scummy in between the town read and the scum read the problem that I have is that the director seems more crazy than anything else and we are thinking in similar ways so ugh I have him as town.

nacho is in some ways one of my stronger town reads cos of 2 things; his hardcore wking of majiffy and his seemingly genuine confusion "this game is strange". that comment is a stronger town tell more than anything IMO. the wking of majiffy is a relative tell that I do not have a solid basis for except to look at the motivation behind it. I am not sure if as scum nacho would wk a scummate so hard nor do I see him wk a town majiffy unless he had an expected return and I don't think majiffy would give him that just cos nacho is wking him. looking at nacho's and majiffy's interactions I would say that they were on the same team but it could be scum but I find it unlikely if last flips scum. I am just uncertain that last will flip scum and if he flips town I get to spend a whole nother day being paranoid and clinging to my pet theory when it is starting feel counter-intuitive at this point.

buldey and borky feel like town.

I had penguin person as town cos of his case on nobody special and I agreed with what he was saying I am still trying to understand why he is being given as big of a pass as he is. he is doing literally nothing. his putting last at L1 doesn't make me feel particularly good about him especially since he isn't providing a solid reasoning for it and no trail as to how he got there. penguin person's questioning of you on your townish read on me is ambiguous and I would need a flip in order to see how they reacted to that and who they went after.

uct is totally off my radar which is worrisome. like I have no read. sometimes when I have no desire to interact with a person they will later flip scum.

anyways this is me brain dumping before last is hammered cos I don't think I could convince anyone to move to maenara if I were to unstick from my pet theory which I am not entirely sure if should. if last flips scum then obviously I am abandoning it.

[the director]

VOTE: Last Survivor

[uctriton00]

uct is totally off my radar which is worrisome. like I have no read. sometimes when I have no desire to interact with a person they will later flip scum.

:[

[penguin_alien]

Wow, way to quickhammer with five days left and no call for a claim. Unless I'm missing something, Lastsurvivor didn't claim, nor was he asked to. I haven't seen any reason to skip that step in this set-up, and if this doesn't put us at two for two on nailing scum, I'm going to be looking for a really good explanation from thedirector for the hammer and Nobody Special for saying to hammer at will.

[pirate mollie]

why is nobody special not being put under more pressure than he has been? seriously. he has been steadily active in other games and is avoiding this one like the plague. see this is why I am not ready to give up my pet theory despite me being able to see other players as possibly town.

uct is totally off my radar which is worrisome. like I have no read. sometimes when I have no desire to interact with a person they will later flip scum.

:[

well its true! and you are not interacting with me either.

[RachMarie]

Vote Count 3.1



Nachomamma8 (3) Pirate Mollie, Nobody Special, borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (2 ) Majiffy, Nachomamma8


Not Voting

Kmd4390, Buldemar, Penguin_Alien, Maenara



With 9 it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-02-02 17:31:55)

[RachMarie]

As the day wore on the votes switched rapidly from one suspect to another, each time it looked like a lynch was about to happen the votes switched again. Who would the players finally pick to lynch? The mystery was finally solved. Nobody Special jumped in after sitting for hours and saying nothing, adding his voice to the wagon on Lastsurvivor. Others also suspected him. When the final vote tally came it was clear. Lastsurvivor you must be scum hang him now the players cried. As they strung him up on the branch of the tree, they were so very sure they guessed right. As Lastsurvivor breathed his last, everyone waited with baited breath for the glamor to leave him and reveal him as the scum they thought he was.......Minutes passed and though LS was dead no glamor was removed. He was exactly as he seemed a townie. A groan of despair came from the players as they drifted off to their beds for the night.



Lastsurvivor

Vanilla Townie

was lynched D2



Need any night actions by (expired on 2012-12-23 22:12:07).

[RachMarie]

As the dawn breaks and everyone stumbles into the conference room, they scan around to see who went missing in the night.....


It took quite some time and nose counting to finally realize that no one was missing.


No one died N2