Open 459: There is a New Scum in Town. Game Over Town Wins!

[pirate mollie]

fuck it

VOTE: kmd

[pirate mollie]

eta: I don't give a shit how likeable you are.

[Kmd4390]

Mollie, I haven't ignored anyone. If I missed something, quote it for me.

[the director]

fuck it

VOTE: kmd

Now this is the kind of thinking I can get behind. As I said, get this KMD kid to l-1 so I can hammer.

ETA: TANGLE, GIRL.

in all seriousness kmd is today's kill. let's do it.

[the director]

VOTE: pirate

[pirate mollie]

Mollie, I haven't ignored anyone. If I missed something, quote it for me.

how can I quote something that you are ignoring? uct is wanting interaction with you and you are pawning off simple sentences while making eulogies to my posts.

eta: the director you are a dummy. but carry on

[Kmd4390]

Huh?

[penguin_alien]

So reading through Kmd4390's ISO, it seems like he's putting forth a situation where if Nobody Special is lynched and flips scum, Kmd4390 offers himself up for lynch, and if Nobody Special is lynched and flips town. Which is only helpful if Nobody Special and Kmd4390 are the remaining two scum. Not so great if Kmd4390 is scum with someone not Nobody Special and is thereby using him as a shield to throw us off. So the whole self-sacrifice angle makes Kmd4390 seem less town to me, what with the idea that town has no motivation to make us contemplate wasting a lynch, as would be the case if Kmd4390 were town and as such had himself down as certain town.

Someone was putting Majiffy and Kmd4390 forward as a scum team option, which based on how much they've interacted over the course of all three days seems unlikely to me.

Given that there have been serious wagons on Kmd4390 for two days, I feel like there should be a clearer case to go on. Kmd4390 was pushing the minority wagon of Fizz on the day Fe got lynched, but we don't know much about that slot at this point. Then the self-voting today just doesn't seem to have a good motivation from a scum standpoint. Not that it does from a town standpoint either, but my understanding is that the only reason to self-vote in this type of set-up would be as scum cutting off conversation. Which leaves lousy reasons, which tend to be town-sourced. It does fit in a bit too nicely with Majiffy's mention of AtE, but aside from pique, there's no real explanation, particularly since he's been bandying about the 'lynch Nobody Special to get information on me' plan.

Overall it feels like really small sets of circumstances that come together to make a case on Kmd4390. I would consider voting him if we don't have any other consensus on the table come deadline, but I'd feel a lot better about it if anyone can articulate the case against him more clearly than I've been able to construct.

The 'playing like I play town' uctriton00 quote is a non-starter as far as I can see. After his plan to lynch Kmd4390 early on (Day One, IIRC) for information rather than scumminess per se, his posts haven't rung any bells with me. So I'm not following where others are seeing a vote-worthy case. Although if uctriton00 is going to judge my play based on the game we just finished playing together where I flipped scum, I do hope he's looked at the multiple games where I wasn't scum.

Right now I am disinclined to buy that Nobody Special isn't scum. Looking over his ISO again, he manages to be on just about every major wagon with almost no explanation. Very much a 'lynch anyone but me' attitude as far as I can tell from his posts, which I consider to be pretty darned scummy. So my vote's staying where it is.

[Nobody Special]

***UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT***

Kmd4390 (3) Buldemar, Nobody Special, pirate mollie

pirate mollie (1) the director

Nobody Special (1) penguin_alien

penguin_alien (3) Nachomamma8, borkjerfkin, uctriton00

uctriton00 (3) Majiffy, Maenara, Kmd4390


Not Voting

...

With 11 it takes 6 to lynch


(expired on 2013-01-14 17:06:10)

I honestly don't know who to lynch.

[Majiffy]

Mollie you're bad and you should feel bad. I'll address why once I sober up and have some time, but in the meantime you should vote Uct because your KMD vote is awful.

[Kmd4390]

Penguin, why does your post sound like you are trying to make a reason to vote me up until the part where you say my play doesn't make sense as scum today? Like, you go on about how if I'm scum, I'm handing the game over to town, and you seem to think I'm scum, yet it's a bad idea to lynch me except in case of deadline? And then you have a mini-case on Uct, but you say there's no case. It's very hard to tell what your opinions are when you throw both sides of an arguement out there without much of a committed conclusion. Like after reading that post, I still have no idea what your read is on two of the three players you talk about.

[buldermar]

How are you not like him in this game?

That's an ass-backwards question.

How

am

I playing like him?

The whole wording is just completely counter-intuitive for a townplayer.

You're seing something that I don't see. Assuming reasonable play from you, there are two possibilities: 1) you're scum and making it up, 2) you're town and I fail to understand your perspective. Help me rule out the former of the two possibilities, please.

[buldermar]

And we're not lynching KMD, we're lynching Uct. Now hop on the wagon.

I'm lynching kmd.

[buldermar]

in combination with him defending viable counterwagons (Maenara) and pushing counterwagons that really aren't viable (bork)

Which posts do you have in mind?

[buldermar]

VOTE: kmd

Now

that's

a good vote! I knew I could count on you, girl!

[buldermar]

I think the kmd lynch would be a good idea. I think that uct is probably town cos of how petulant he sounded cos kmd is addressing me and ignoring him. I think penguin is town.

majiffy is a hardcore busser. I think he attempted to bus kmd from the get go in order to gain town cred on finding scum amongst a really good player. how do I know this? cos he has said this and he bussed me and got caught out in the recent tr game which only implicated himself. he switched to fe when kmd showed resistance and he is not giving a read on kmd now he is merely wanting to vote him based off of that 1 post. majiffy screams about cases but wants kmd lynched with not remembering why he had him as scum in the first place.

I think a scumkmd will directly point to majiffy.

That game is still ongoing, so you probably should not talk about it. I agree with you, though.

[Kmd4390]

Someone's bitter about my Day 1 push on his slot.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie you're bad and you should feel bad. I'll address why once I sober up and have some time, but in the meantime you should vote Uct because your KMD vote is awful.

I am not voting uct, I think uct is town. I am voting kmd cos I don't think he is although I could easily go for you cos I am still cross with you and I think you are scum.

I have strong town reads on the director, borky, buldey and to some degree maenara I guess I just wish she would be more helpful. I go back and forth on nacho like I could seriously go either way with him. I am not seeing

any at all whatsoever

the sharp and sophisticated analysis from him that I am used to seeing. I had a strong town read on penguin person and I find it interesting how kmd seems to be backtracking on his. looks like he is fishing for another lynch.

[pirate mollie]

I think the kmd lynch would be a good idea. I think that uct is probably town cos of how petulant he sounded cos kmd is addressing me and ignoring him. I think penguin is town.

majiffy is a hardcore busser. I think he attempted to bus kmd from the get go in order to gain town cred on finding scum amongst a really good player. how do I know this? cos he has said this and he bussed me and got caught out in the recent tr game which only implicated himself. he switched to fe when kmd showed resistance and he is not giving a read on kmd now he is merely wanting to vote him based off of that 1 post. majiffy screams about cases but wants kmd lynched with not remembering why he had him as scum in the first place.

I think a scumkmd will directly point to majiffy.

That game is still ongoing, so you probably should not talk about it.

I agree with you, though.

no, it had just ended when I posted this. our last scum begged the gm to kill her off. raven has been wanting to catch me out as scum forever and she never could until now. grrrrr......

[pirate mollie]

I wanted to come back and respond to this cos some of it seemed genuine. fyi scum can come across as genuine too.

On majiffy, I already know you are wrong on him bussing me after fe. So if he's scum, this isn't the case from my point of view. So that really doesn't help my thinking and it won't help yours after I'm dead.

As for the issues with my play, and I want to keep this brief because it may be a bit off topic, it seems like certain things that used to be town tells no longer are. Like someone will drop one of those obvtown tells, and I'll see them as town for the majority of the game. Then they flip scum and I'm all WTF. In the past, these tells would lead me to enough strong town reads to nail the scum by process of elimination. Maybe it's time to stop townhunting and scumhunt more? I don't really know, but I'll figure it out at some point.

well that is how I play too - I work from the inside out. I try to find town in order to form a cabal by d3 and it has been my experience that town wins more games that way. I am more likely to confuse special tells with scum tells and if I get knocked off balance I will force out every single special in a game lol.

The vibe I get from your posts is just that you seem to be a good player. Sure, I don't really have results to prove it and I haven't looked at your stats or past games or whatever, but you seem to be playing well regardless of your alignment. Do you see what I am saying about majiffy's meta though?

remind me again what you were saying about majiffy's meta

By slump, I mean that my reads have been much worse than normal in my past few games. I was wrong on both Fe and Last in this game. I just had a game end where two of my strongest town reads were scum and all of my scum reads were town. And the last few before that weren't much better. I like to think I've been good at this game in the past. I mean, I've nailed plenty of scum Day 1 and sometimes their partners if I survive long enough. I've generally picked right in 3P LYLO. Even in town losses, I'll be the guy going "dammit! I told you guys so and so was scum!". But lately, I just can't do it.

well we all have to do a hard reset every now and then. what I have noticed in the untimed games is that after awhile the paranoia starts to work on your brain and at some point everyone will start to look scummy. good scum know this and will use it to their advantage I would think and I think the key is to learn to tell the difference between town flail and scum flail. last was clearly town flailing. I am confused as town, how you missed this.

[RachMarie]

Vote Count 3.1

Kmd4390 (3) Buldemar, Nobody Special, pirate mollie

pirate mollie (1) the director

Nobody Special (1) penguin_alien

penguin_alien (3) Nachomamma8, borkjerfkin, uctriton00

uctriton00 (3) Majiffy, Maenara, Kmd4390


Not Voting

...

With 11 it takes 6 to lynch


(expired on 2013-01-14 17:06:10)

[Kmd4390]

Mollie, I haven't backtracked. I've said penguin is probably town swince Day 1. I'll read 1194 when I'm not on a short break at work.

[Majiffy]

I think that uct is probably town cos of how petulant he sounded cos kmd is addressing me and ignoring him.

Easily faked as scum. I do it all the time when I notice certain players are ignoring me.

majiffy is a hardcore busser. I think he attempted to bus kmd from the get go in order to gain town cred on finding scum amongst a really good player. how do I know this? cos he has said this and he bussed me and got caught out in the recent tr game which only implicated himself.

So you're going to lynch a player under the assumption that I am scum with that player, when you've not even flipped me yet? Yeah, that's intelligent.

he switched to fe when kmd showed resistance and he is not giving a read on kmd now he is merely wanting to vote him based off of that 1 post. majiffy screams about cases but wants kmd lynched with not remembering why he had him as scum in the first place.

Uh... I've called KMD townish and I'm actively fighting his lynch by pushing the uct wagon. So this is just empirically wrong.

I think a scumkmd will directly point to majiffy.

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

I am not voting uct, I think uct is town.

Do you have anything to support this other than "he was moody kmd wasn't answering him"?

I am voting kmd cos I don't think he is although I could easily go for you cos I am still cross with you and I think you are scum.

By all means, tell me why I am scum. I'll wait.

Also Director is the on-LS-wagon scum. His "I'll hammer whomever gets to L-1" is his support-but-not-support to bus his partner. Stay strong, town.

[pirate mollie]

so what made you change your mind about kmd? cos you were all salivating at the mouth for a kmd lynch earlier. I already explained why I was more willing to lynch kmd over you but you guys are pretty even tbh. I think games are boring without you though. if you guys get your way and lynch another townie, then what? I know that if uct flips scum I will be doing some re-evaluating but where are you looking to next? your cases are pretty weak this game and that is what is standing out the most. plus some other things that I am not going to tell you.

[Nachomamma8]

majiffy is a hardcore busser. I think he attempted to bus kmd from the get go in order to gain town cred on finding scum amongst a really good player. how do I know this? cos he has said this and he bussed me and got caught out in the recent tr game which only implicated himself. he switched to fe when kmd showed resistance and he is not giving a read on kmd now he is merely wanting to vote him based off of that 1 post. majiffy screams about cases but wants kmd lynched with not remembering why he had him as scum in the first place.

Majiffy also talked about going into D1s blind, meaning that your current flips are sort of useless and voting kmd for being pushed hard by majiffy take three more jumps in logic than I am currently comfortable with.

in combination with him defending viable counterwagons (Maenara) and pushing counterwagons that really aren't viable (bork)

Which posts do you have in mind?

Two of them should be obvious.

I am not seeing any at all whatsoever the sharp and sophisticated analysis from him that I am used to seeing.

This is the nature of the game and has little to do with my alignment.