Newbie 1315: Van Helsing (Over)

[awestfie]

Spawnisen, I'm curious as to why you don't want to reply to Nekoko's comment to regarding:

Townie is the best, you won't get caught up too much in your lies!

Would you mind explaining to me me a situation where you feel like lying as town is a good idea? The fact that you reply to Nekoko's comment saying:

You're reading too much into my answers right now.

Makes me even more curious, because you're "avoiding" a question so quickly into the first day.

[Untrod Tripod]

Votecount 1.1

Spawnisen - 1 (kwll)
awestfie - 0
MP5 - 1 (Nekoko)
Superdeclan - 1 (serrapaladin)
FalconPunch - 0
serrapaladin - 0
kwll - 1 (MP5)
Nekoko - 2 (Ser Arthur Daye, Spawnisen)
Ser Arthur Dayne - 0

Not Voting - 1 (awestfie)

[kwll]

To answer you Arthur I am in two other games and also I have completed 3 games

My question back for those who wonder about my consistency, is it my writing style that bothers you or the content of them. I am curious because I am not a very good writer and I actually practice my writing by playing this.

Also I am curious....to the answer that awest asked. Saying a comment that it is Ok to lie to town sounds like a slight scum tell.

[awestfie]

I had to cut my last post short, my apologies.

Regardless of that, I feel like Spawnisen had a very bad start so far, two of his answers out of the five we were asked during the pregame are making me quite curious.

3) Townie is the best, you won't get caught up too much in your lies!

I cannot think of many moments where town would try to outright lie about something; the only real time where lying as town could be beneficial would be if you're trying to draw a reaction. Although, I don't want to discuss about the pregame answers too much, I feel like you need to explain why you answered that question the way you did.

As for the second thing..

5) Claiming townie

Now, I don't see anything wrong with this, I've reviewed roughly about five other Newbie games and, sometimes a VT can choose to claim very early into day 1 to try and draw a reaction, and if anything; it's beneficial for town, because the reactions people will give gives town a lot of information, but, it is a very high-risk, high-reward strategy, because it can backfire; as some people will think that claiming very early like that is a scum-tell, because it can look as if you're a desperate scum trying to look townie, by claiming.

However, the biggest issue I have with all of this, is this:

You're reading too much into my answers right now.

I see two things here, either:

A) You got defensive really quickly.
or
B) You feel like your pregame answers didn't matter all that much.

A is pretty self explanatory really.

As for B, well.. it's perfectly understandable, it's early into day 1, however, we don't really have much to go on right now, and your answers made a few people curious, including me, serrapaladin and Nekoko.

Anyways, for now I will VOTE: Spawnisen - I'd like to get some answers from you, as I am quite curious.

[serrapaladin]

You're reading too much into my answers right now.
And would you care to explain to me why my vote on Nekoko seems off? It's as off as Nekokos vote on MP5, or your vote on MP5 for that matter.

We'll see about that. Your vote was conscious/serious enough for you to realize its hypocrisy, while Nekoko's and mine were firmly RVS.

Can you tell me why Nekokos vote on MP5 is more RVS than mine. Because he added a bullshit reason for the vote? But yeah, obviously me trying to explain my voting and posts is going no where so i'll just shut up for the time being.

Her vote was about MP5's name also lacking vowels, despite him voting kwll for that exact reason. That is an RVS reason. Your vote included a game-related reason, which may or may not be valid, but also included your claim that you had realized your hypocrisy, which shows a level of thought not usually present in RVS votes. Additionally, as Arthur has pointed out, self-consciousness shows the intent to keep a good image. This game-related intent attached to your vote makes it less random than Nekoko's.

I wish you would explain your voting and posts. The general content of your 'explanations' has been:
"I am trying to confuse people and you shouldn't read too much into my posts."

[serrapaladin]

kwll, regarding my comment about your consistency:
I wasn't referring to content and nothing about your writing style bothers me. As I said, it was a rather cosmetic point about some posts like

vote spawn

that just sounds sinster

being superficially different from the others (this is the most obvious one, the other differences are more nuanced in terms of your tone).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Are you a native English speaker? And what different platforms do you use to write posts?

Nope, English is my second language (out of three), though like you, I have been speaking it for almost all of my life.

If I am posting, I am either doing it from a laptop, or a tablet. Very very rarely will I post from a phone.

To answer you Arthur I am in two other games and also I have completed 3 games

Hmm, okay, so I checked myself, and your first game on site (I believe) was scum.

I was mainly wanting to check if you had landed a scum role for the first time, as this:

Where is everyone? I want to get this party started!!!

usually comes from a person who has landed scum for the first (in a very weak way), because they're usually excited to have landed the alignment (but different people react in different ways so etc). But, uh, yea, you've been scum before

[kwll]

does the mod post vote counts on the bottom or the top of a page?

at arthur...Thanks for noticing my excited tone. I am actually excited because this is my first game where I am at the beginning before it started...all my games I have replaced in...some rather late...so yay!!!

[serrapaladin]

Regardless of that, I feel like Spawnisen had a very bad start so far, two of his answers out of the five we were asked during the pregame are making me quite curious.

3) Townie is the best, you won't get caught up too much in your lies!

I cannot think of many moments where town would try to outright lie about something; the only real time where lying as town could be beneficial would be if you're trying to draw a reaction. Although, I don't want to discuss about the pregame answers too much, I feel like you need to explain why you answered that question the way you did.

Would you mind explaining to me me a situation where you feel like lying as town is a good idea?

I'm not particularly happy with this line of going after Spawnisen by

awestfie

. My objections are along the lines of kwll's comment:

Also I am curious....to the answer that awest asked. Saying a comment that it is Ok to lie to town sounds like a slight scum tell.

Also a slight hint of wagoning on Spawnisen by going after him a slightly different way to Nekoko and me.

---

I'll be travelling tomorrow, so might not get to post until Sunday.

I'll perhaps get off a short post tomorrow morning.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

does the mod post vote counts on the bottom or the top of a page?

Most mods, including UT, post vote counts at the beginning of the page. This post:

VC

will soon be turned into a vote count when UT can make one. He's placeholding for now

[kwll]

Thank you Arthur I wondered what the VC was.

Pala, why do you think wondering about information is a hint of bandwagoning?

[awestfie]

Would you mind explaining to me me a situation where you feel like lying as town is a good idea?

I'm not particularly happy with this line of going after Spawnisen by

awestfie

. My objections are along the lines of kwll's comment:

Also I am curious....to the answer that awest asked. Saying a comment that it is Ok to lie to town sounds like a slight scum tell.

Also a slight hint of wagoning on Spawnisen by going after him a slightly different way to Nekoko and me.

I do understand why you wouldn't be particularly happy with my line, however, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Why? Because Spawnisen is currently being pressured and I think his response, and perhaps reaction, will give us good early information.

And if you're wondering why it will give us good information, here's why:

Spawnisen:
How is claiming townie something you'll be known for?

Well, because I will be the first one to do it? (Take this as me claiming VT)

5) Claiming townie

Don't unless you're about to be lynched.

If you're from a forum where the players mass claim to catch scum, this won't work here
because this setup is designed to discourage "Follow the Cop."

Me saying that i'm claiming townie means pretty much nothing. Don't worry! I can still be cop, jailkeeper, scum. I'm just confusing you all!

With that said,

vote:nekoko

for being the first one to start stacking up votes on one person (Yes I'm aware that makes me the second guy...)

The issue I have here, is that Spawnisen says that him claiming townie means "pretty much nothing;" when, he soft claimed that he was a VT, just to go on and say that he could still be a PR or Scum. Confusing people isn't townie, and if anything it's a scum-tell. Now, the only logical reasons why he could be doing all of this, would be because he's trying to get reactions, and that's why I want him to reply to my concerns, because it will give town a lot of information.

[serrapaladin]

5) Claiming townie

Now, I don't see anything wrong with this, I've reviewed roughly about five other Newbie games and,

sometimes a VT can choose to claim very early into day 1 to try and draw a reaction, and if anything; it's beneficial for town

, because the reactions people will give gives town a lot of information, but, it is a very high-risk, high-reward strategy, because it can backfire; as some people will think that claiming very early like that is a scum-tell, because it can look as if you're a desperate scum trying to look townie, by claiming.

However, the biggest issue I have with all of this, is this:

You're reading too much into my answers right now.

I see two things here, either:

A) You got defensive really quickly.
or

B) You feel like your pregame answers didn't matter all that much.

A is pretty self explanatory really.

As for B, well.. it's perfectly understandable

, it's early into day 1, however, we don't really have much to go on right now, and your answers made a few people curious, including me, serrapaladin and Nekoko.

Anyways, for now I will VOTE: Spawnisen - I'd like to get some answers from you, as I am quite curious.

The bold parts reads as though you're trying to give

your scumbuddy

Spawnisen a way out. You're basically serving him some more or less decent excuses, which he

should

be thinking of by himself. If you think those might be the reasons, why not probe for them more subtly? Him replying to your leading questions will precisely not give town any good information. To address kwll's point, my concern about bandwagoning wasn't because you were adding questions, but because you jumped on with a vote on Spawnisen, while giving a plausible town explanation for his behavior.

awestfie:

Would you mind linking to some of those examples of VT claiming D1, under no pressure, with the explicit reason of drawing out reactions from scum?

Anyone else:

I must admit my ignorance, I haven't heard of this alleged tactic. Could anyone back her up, so I don't believe it was a reason pulled out of thin air to help her scumbuddy?

The issue I have here, is that Spawnisen says that him claiming townie means "pretty much nothing;" when, he soft claimed that he was a VT, just to go on and say that he could still be a PR or Scum. Confusing people isn't townie, and if anything it's a scum-tell.

Now, the only logical reasons why he could be doing all of this, would be because he's trying to get reactions

, and that's why I want him to reply to my concerns, because it will give town a lot of information.

Well no, the logical reason for him doing all of this would be 'him being scum'...

I do understand why you wouldn't be particularly happy with my line, however, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Also, please explain this to me. If you see nothing wrong with it, how could you understand my unhappiness?

---

That's all I have for today. I hope by Sunday evening, those who haven't been very active will have given some content, so we can get a better picture of this all.

[Superdeclan]

sorry for not being active I thought it hadnt started I'll read the posts then get an avatar

[Superdeclan]

ok,read the posts

Spawnisen

is being really defensive, possibly a scumtell as I will show with the quotes below

You're reading too much into my answers right now.

I'm just confusing you all

vote:nekoko for being the first one to start stacking up votes on one person (Yes I'm aware that makes me the second guy...)

seems a bit wierd in my opinion

If this is your first game what do you expect to get out of it?

I hope to gain experience and ways to know how to play better

Are you a native English speaker?

English is my first language but I speak scots kind of and my spelling is terrible

And what different platforms do you use to write posts?

I have no Idea what you mean by that

Based on what I've shown you I shall VOTE: Spawnisen

[Spawnisen]

Oh god. Let me get everything out there.

I didn't think you guys would read so much into my pre-game answers. I've never been in a mafia game where you answer questions in the beginning so I didn't know my answers would mean so much to you guys. If I had known I obviously wouldn't have answered the way I did, because I've completely misdirected town it seems, and for that I'm sorry.

And of course I get defensive when I get attacked because of for me a stupid reason (the pre-game answers). Up until the vote on nekoko I wasn't at all serious with my posts, but on the vote on nekoko I was and I'll stand by it. He was the first guy to go for a guy that already had a vote on him. He may claim it was a random vote but it might as well be an oppurtunity to get a small bandwagon going on a townie.

[awestfie]

5) Claiming townie

Now, I don't see anything wrong with this, I've reviewed roughly about five other Newbie games and,

sometimes a VT can choose to claim very early into day 1 to try and draw a reaction, and if anything; it's beneficial for town

, because the reactions people will give gives town a lot of information, but, it is a very high-risk, high-reward strategy, because it can backfire; as some people will think that claiming very early like that is a scum-tell, because it can look as if you're a desperate scum trying to look townie, by claiming.

However, the biggest issue I have with all of this, is this:

You're reading too much into my answers right now.

I see two things here, either:

A) You got defensive really quickly.
or

B) You feel like your pregame answers didn't matter all that much.

A is pretty self explanatory really.

As for B, well.. it's perfectly understandable

, it's early into day 1, however, we don't really have much to go on right now, and your answers made a few people curious, including me, serrapaladin and Nekoko.

Anyways, for now I will VOTE: Spawnisen - I'd like to get some answers from you, as I am quite curious.

The bold parts reads as though you're trying to give

your scumbuddy

Spawnisen a way out. You're basically serving him some more or less decent excuses, which he

should

be thinking of by himself. If you think those might be the reasons, why not probe for them more subtly? Him replying to your leading questions will precisely not give town any good information. To address kwll's point, my concern about bandwagoning wasn't because you were adding questions, but because you jumped on with a vote on Spawnisen, while giving a plausible town explanation for his behavior.

awestfie:

Would you mind linking to some of those examples of VT claiming D1, under no pressure, with the explicit reason of drawing out reactions from scum?

Anyone else:

I must admit my ignorance, I haven't heard of this alleged tactic. Could anyone back her up, so I don't believe it was a reason pulled out of thin air to help her scumbuddy?

He is new to the game, so, yes B is perfectly understandable, because he probably thought those answers weren't going to matter into the actual game. I'm not serving him any excuses, I'm telling it how I see it from my point of view.

As for claiming VT on Day 1, out of the five games I've reviewed, it's only happened once; but, here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4200351 (Post #37, he was under no pressure whatsoever, and he ended up dying on Night 4); like I've said, it draws a reaction out of everybody and can be very beneficial for town.

The issue I have here, is that Spawnisen says that him claiming townie means "pretty much nothing;" when, he soft claimed that he was a VT, just to go on and say that he could still be a PR or Scum. Confusing people isn't townie, and if anything it's a scum-tell.

Now, the only logical reasons why he could be doing all of this, would be because he's trying to get reactions

, and that's why I want him to reply to my concerns, because it will give town a lot of information.

Well no, the logical reason for him doing all of this would be 'him being scum'...

Once again, I'm telling it how I see it from my point of view; he did soft VT, just to go on and say that he could still be a PR or Scum in his very next post. Spawnisen was backpedaling and getting very defensive really really fast after those two posts, and that's why I have a scum-tell on him. As for what's bolded, I said that because, as town, you have to expect every scenario, however, since this is Spawnisen's first game on here, I don't think it was a reaction test and my vote will be staying on him. If you take anything I've said about him as buddying, then you're misreading me; because, why would I ultimately push on him, just to give him excuses?

I do understand why you wouldn't be particularly happy with my line, however, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Also, please explain this to me. If you see nothing wrong with it, how could you understand my unhappiness?

Because, you said it yourself; you saw a slight hint of a wagon on Spawnisen. You thought I was just easily jumping on an easy lynch; which is why you'd be unhappy with those lines. nekoko had already commented on the lie comments made by Spawnisen, and I came in a few posts later commenting about the exact same thing; so, obviously you saw me as someone who was trying to push on something that was already commented on, to try and get an easy lynch out of the way.

As for the record, serrapaladin, I have a slight town-read on you, your concern is very townie.

[kwll]

oppurtunity to get a small bandwagon going on a townie.

ummm....so You want a bandwagon on a townie or You know they are townie and you want a bandwagon?

Not liking this one at all.

[/SE hat on]

I would highly suggest you look at the links the IC gave out, also I would read on how gameflow goes in this type of mafia. Random questions and Random votes are design to get reactions randomly so we can begin discussions. [/se hat off]

I may have been willing to forgive some of it to new players...but WOW...that one sounds kinda messed up.

[Spawnisen]

oppurtunity to get a small bandwagon going on a townie.

ummm....so You want a bandwagon on a townie or You know they are townie and you want a bandwagon?

Not liking this one at all.

[/SE hat on]

I would highly suggest you look at the links the IC gave out, also I would read on how gameflow goes in this type of mafia. Random questions and Random votes are design to get reactions randomly so we can begin discussions. [/se hat off]

I may have been willing to forgive some of it to new players...but WOW...that one sounds kinda messed up.

Why are you replying without reading my whole posts?
I said FOR Nekoko it might be an oppurtunity to get a small bandwagon going on a townie. I never said it was ME who wanted to get a bandwagon going.
This is kinda useless if you all just expect me to be scum without reading my posts objectively. I'm not gonna defend myself anymore. You got my explanation, at least read it before you vote on me.

[kwll]

Spawn...are you getting frustrated? You have to remember....we dont know you are.

[Superdeclan]

Ok, ,here's my reads I played some epic mafia games so I've got an idea
spawn: leaning scum My reasons are in my last post
Kwll: null, leaning town just a gut feeling, He's also been quite active
Awestfie not sure slightly town
Mp5 null
Falcon not a clue
Serapaldin Lening town
Arthur null
Nekoko null

Will get Avatar when I get home as I'm on IPad ATM

[FalconPunch]

Sorry, I didn't notice it started, I'll read everything right now.

[Nekoko]

For convenience sake

Unofficial Vote Count:

Spawnisen (3): kwll, awestfie, Superdeclan
MP5 (1): Nekoko
Superdeclan (1): serrapaladin
kwll (1): MP5
Nekoko (2): Ser Arthur Dayne, Spawnisen

Not Voting (1): FalconPunch

Vote Order:

MP5 -> kwll
serrapaladin -> MP5
Ser Arthur Dayne -> Nekoko
kwll -> Spawnisen
Nekoko -> MP5
Spawnisen -> Nekoko

serrapaladin unvotes
serrapaladin -> Declan

awestfie -> Spawnisen
Superdeclan -> Spawnisen

---

slight scum read on serrapaladin and slight town read on awestfie

I find it suspicious because he could have voted spawnisen but yet sticked with RVS and randomly voted Declan.
It's always better to end RVS as early as possible so that we could start with meaningful discussion.

Also my vote isn't really doing anything, so:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Declan

until you get an avatar.

Votes could pressure a player and we could see useful reactions (if he's scum, his buddy too).
I'd be voting you because right now I'm most suspicious of you and I think RVS is over.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: serrapaladin

serrapaladin:

If you suspect both awestfie and Spawnisen, why is your vote still on Declan?
It's not doing anything because the reason is only fit for a RVS.

---

Anyone else: I must admit my ignorance, I haven't heard of this alleged tactic. Could anyone back her up, so I don't believe it was a reason pulled out of thin air to help her scumbuddy?

I haven't really played in a game where a player claimed vanilla on D1 but
I've come across 1 newbie game where scum claimed vanilla on D1 here.
He was lynched on D1 but not solely on that. He was lynched because he was insisting on a mass claim.

---

Are you a native English speaker? And what different platforms do you use to write posts?

No. English is my second language.

---

Spawn...are you getting frustrated? You have to remember....we dont know you are.

What do you expect. You misread her previous post

---

Spawnisen

Right now, who do you think are suspicious?

[FalconPunch]

I'm not sure about spawn. He could be maf trying too hard to look like town, or could just be newb town. I'm kind of in a hurry, just posting the obvious, I'll post something more substantial tonight or tomorrow. Sorry.

Falcon

:
Given you have played this before, what gives you the impression might be the worst player?

Before I've always been one of the first lynched, no matter what alignment I was. I'll try a lot harder here as this is a much more serious game.

[MP5]

Sorry for the inactivity, I can answer a couple of the general questions quickly as well by saying that I have been following from my Samsung GS2, but majority of my posting is done from my laptop (I hate trying to edit half-written posts from the phone, it's a nightmare to get it right on this forum). Might check in occasionally with a short post or two from my phone, but I'll try and distinguish my main longer posts on my laptop (as I am now). I had tried to get on last night but ran short of time, am staying up late to post here. Oh, and English as a first and only language.

To get on to business:

paladin

- in reading through, picked up a slight gut feel for scum early on, but have revised this towards town of late. Got us out of RVS in post 40, post 47 seemed entirely non-comittal, but after rereading he went as far as he could with what he had to go on at that stage. Particularly liking the pressure and questioning on both Spawn and awest, will like to see this picked up by more people as we go along (myself included), scumhunting cannot be done alone (especially not if the only person hunting is scum themselves).

declan

- I am not happy with, null leaning scum. Sheeps on to the leading wagon by quoting things already brought to attention, and doesn't elaborate on his reads.

@declan

- which player is your biggest town read and why? And what is your read on SAD - and again, why?

nekoko

- not happy with either (but yeah, it's still early). Posted a bit, but it falls more into IIoA. Telling newbies "Don't do the wrong thing" is helpful, but what's more helpful? Reads, please (though I did chuckle at your RVS on me - to be completely honest it wasn't till after I posted that I realised I don't have any vowels either, I'm glad somebody else saw )

P-Edit: Nice to see you Nekoko. What is your read on kwll please?

falcon

- who?

SAD

- post #56 and #59 are simply fulfilling his IC role, not yet looking for scum hard enough for mine. Null, very null.

@SAD

- care to explain your read or feel on kwll? Up to halfway through second page I don't get any solid read on kwll. But speaking of him ...

kwll

- get a slight scum leaning towards because of this:

Saying a comment that it is Ok to lie to town sounds like a slight scum tell.

Awest wasn't saying that lying as town is ok, he was asking Spawn to clarify why he had already suggested that lying as town is OK, a legitimate question. It looks like you are trying to put words into awest's mouth to arouse suspicion, which is a scum tell.

awest

- (I'm still trying to decide if I pronounce this in my head "ay-west", as in the letter then the cardinal point; or "orst" as in sounding like the start of "awesome" with a t on the end ...)
I get a town feel for awest here. I would like to see (checks gender) her commit more solidly as her reads clarify throughout the game, I feel that she is overexplaining and perhaps overthinking herself and paladin made a good effort to show in post 62 that if you suspect someone, you shouldn't be trying to offer them their excuse while questioning them.

Lastly,

Spawnisen

- there's been a fair amount already said here, and I am not the least bit happy with him trying to confuse town as well - its definately anti-town, so please stop. To add something new to the discussion, I also don't like these quotes (my emphasis added):

He may claim it was a random vote but it might as well be an oppurtunity to get a small bandwagon going

on a townie

.

Why are you replying without reading my whole posts?
I said FOR Nekoko it might be an oppurtunity to get a small bandwagon

going on a townie

. I never said it was ME who wanted to get a bandwagon going.
This is kinda useless if you all just expect me to be scum without reading my posts objectively. I'm not gonna defend myself anymore. You got my explanation, at least read it before you vote on me.

Though not for the same reason as kwll. In both, he asserts that I am town - something that he couldn't know, unless he is scum. He did try and correct kwll's assertion that it was him that wanted the bandwagon, but he didn't correct himself on asserting that I was town.

His whole "I've tried defending myself, I'm not going to defend myself anymore" coupled with how hard he has tried to defend himself so far shows that he is either newbtown or scum, and I'm thinking more likely scum.

I'm happy leaving my vote where it is at for now, as my two biggest scum reads for now are Spawnisen and kwll.