Newbie 1310: A WILD CHARIZARD APPEARED! - GAME OVER

[CF Riot]

Also, it'd be cool if SKrew posted soon. V/LA's are fine and all but yeah, I'd like his participation.

[Om]

Smash wrote:

That's not the case, because I have only said I will compromise on an Emp Dear vote if we near deadline.

I think the chances of Nacho being town are greater than Emp Dear,

so I will vote for the latter if we approach deadline.

Why?
Because as far as I can see from what you've said in your point 1 of the post #363 is lot more then

''player X is passive''

, which isn't strong indicative of alignment either.
Certainly enough to vote Nacho right now, isn't it?
*Pretty pleas*
I hope that was convincing enough ;D

Nobody is going to give you 'strong tells' if you don't vote or ask questions from different angles and you've been really cautious about where you put your vote for my liking. Also, you saying

''player X & Y are suspicious but I wouldn't mind voting for player Z if deadline come''

doesn't help it. Vote>FOS, we are not in LyLo.

Em-p_d wrote:

Or save him. Or make an assumption about what really happened last night.
But why would scum claim the townie they had just tried to kill the night before as innocent? It seems like it would be pointless, right? (Though honestly I am curious do scum actually use this strategy?)

Scum slip's, not strategies. You implying (needlessly) what happened during night when your opinion on other matters is of lesser magnitude looked like one.
PR's simply wont put a target on their back for nights by implying that, so that point is moot.

@Tracey

:

I think Dyrynify is due for a prod.

[SleepyKrew]

Also, it'd be cool if SKrew posted soon. V/LA's are fine and all but yeah, I'd like his participation.

Love you too
Will catch up tomorrow
In the meantime, Nacho, who's scum?

[mykonian]

@mykonian;

What was the point of your post #308?

It felt like a waste not to post what I had till then.

Emp dear, it's pretty simple. If you feel nacho is voting you in error it's because he's w wrong town or scum. In my mind you're hanging yourself by being too timid. Of you feel he's wrong town you need to engage a and convince him. If he's scum you also need to pursue that line of questing. Engage with the game.

This guy is scummy as hell. This post stinks. And it's 2 am now and I can't tell you know why it stinks but it does. Lets see if I know tomorrow.

Ok, more awake now. Lets see if I can find the words to explain what's wrong with that smashbard post.

As scum, you have one major goal: survival. This results quite quickly in "make sure you don't get voted". There are a couple of people who don't get voted. People who just lead a wagon on scum tend to be in that catagory, but in less strong sense, people who seem actively participating, people who seem to know what they are doing, and nice people do not get lynched easily. Since participation in terms of scumhunting is a bit hard for scum, or at least many of the tells people use depend on that (so lets assume they are right), giving the impression that you know what you are doing and that you are a nice guy is a good strategy as scum.

The thing is that this is a newby game and that clouds things a bit. It also doesn't help Emp_dear is a female, because we all know men are pigs, even on the internet. But even then, there's being nice to a female newby and there's the post above.

Couple of pointers: "Emp_dear it's pretty simple" is the thing that got my attention. Smashbard is giving the impression that he knows what he's doing. This is the internet equivalent for that manager who puts his arm around you and points at everything you have to do. Then comes the piece of advice which is basically fueling OMGUS feelings, but very strongly coming from the point where Smash

knows

emp_dear is town. As is the next sentence "In my mind you're hanging yourself by being too timid.". I seriously wonder how smash could ever see the difference between timid town and timid scum if he doesn't know the person.

And in all that, he's giving "objective advice", covering all the options. Now, everything everybody says has a motivation. Otherwise you could just as well have shut up. So if his motivation isn't getting emp_dear to vote nacho, what is?

It's the fact that he could put his arm around her and point her at what she could do

. He's the nice guy, emp would be a fool to suspect her help in all this trouble, right?

[Smashbard]

I was not aware of Emp Dears gender, so bringing up me being a pig trying to mascaraed as a nice guy when I have a wife and a kid on the way is pretty egregious character assassination of me on your part. If that's what you're trying to say.

I'm not going to get all bent up out of shape about it demanding an apology, but I am going to say that you're just flat out wrong. Like, about everything.

You've been harping on me since you replaced in, despite having nothing to really go off of on me, and now you've just posted a giant piece of fluff trying to indite me against some stupid case about how scummy I am, without even really scumhunting against anybody except for myself all day.

Obviously Emp Dear is afraid of trying to defend themselves against the suspicions of an IC because of their earlier post wanting to know whether or not it would be wise to even go after an IC due to the need for an IC to answer questions from new players. She is obviously lost as to how to proceed with the game so I was giving advice.

The same kind of advice I was giving Xegar about his Page 1 Roleclaim. I know I said earlier in the game that I was merely an SE and not trained to answer newbies questions, but when I see bad play in a newbie game I can't help that little tick that goes off in my head that makes me want to correct it.

If I'm trying to coach Emp Dear on how to better survive, I was also coaching Xegarus on how to better survive as well. So if you're trying to say that I am scum for that, I guess you and I would be scumpartners too right? Since you replaced Xegar and all. Two problems, there can't be three scum and I'm not one of them.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

[Smashbard]

Smash wrote:

That's not the case, because I have only said I will compromise on an Emp Dear vote if we near deadline.

I think the chances of Nacho being town are greater than Emp Dear,

so I will vote for the latter if we approach deadline.

Why?
Because as far as I can see from what you've said in your point 1 of the post #363 is lot more then

''player X is passive''

, which isn't strong indicative of alignment either.
Certainly enough to vote Nacho right now, isn't it?
*Pretty pleas*
I hope that was convincing enough ;D

Nobody is going to give you 'strong tells' if you don't vote or ask questions from different angles and you've been really cautious about where you put your vote for my liking. Also, you saying

''player X & Y are suspicious but I wouldn't mind voting for player Z if deadline come''

doesn't help it. Vote>FOS, we are not in LyLo.

I'm sorry I'm just not convinced that Nacho is scum at the moment. He's been pushing Emp Dear a lot with zero traction going either way, but I don't read it as scummy. Emp Dears done even less though. I don't think I've seen them ask a single serious scumhunting question since the start of Day 2. All they've done is concentrate all their time on answering Nacho's questions, which have honestly been like a series of soft balls because Nacho really isn't trying that hard to convince anybody but Riot that Emp Dear should be lynched.

Vote: Emp Dear

I'm gonna need to know that Dear is going to have some sort of useful contribution to the town before I move this vote. All I'm seeing is walls not even defending oneself but going "Yeah, I can see how you feel I'm suspicious".

[Dyrynify]

Wow. I get sick and both everything and nothing happens. I agree with the above; there is not a whole lot of solid defense around here. Full analysis to follow later tonight, but in my read so far, I have become further convinced of Emp's guilt. And unlike some of us, that means I will vote!

VOTE: Emp dear

[mykonian]

I was not aware of Emp Dears gender, so bringing up me being a pig trying to mascaraed as a nice guy when I have a wife and a kid on the way is pretty egregious character assassination of me on your part. If that's what you're trying to say.

I'm not going to get all bent up out of shape about it demanding an apology, but I am going to say that you're just flat out wrong. Like, about everything.

You've been harping on me since you replaced in, despite having nothing to really go off of on me, and now you've just posted a giant piece of fluff trying to indite me against some stupid case about how scummy I am, without even really scumhunting against anybody except for myself all day.

Obviously Emp Dear is afraid of trying to defend themselves against the suspicions of an IC because of their earlier post wanting to know whether or not it would be wise to even go after an IC due to the need for an IC to answer questions from new players. She is obviously lost as to how to proceed with the game so I was giving advice.

The same kind of advice I was giving Xegar about his Page 1 Roleclaim. I know I said earlier in the game that I was merely an SE and not trained to answer newbies questions, but when I see bad play in a newbie game I can't help that little tick that goes off in my head that makes me want to correct it.

If I'm trying to coach Emp Dear on how to better survive, I was also coaching Xegarus on how to better survive as well. So if you're trying to say that I am scum for that, I guess you and I would be scumpartners too right? Since you replaced Xegar and all. Two problems, there can't be three scum and I'm not one of them.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Pretty sure I'm accusing you of buddying, but if that's the way you want to go, be my guest.

vote smashbard

for this post as much as the previous. Who wants to fish out the amount of arguments which had nothing to do with the accusation posted? Or do I have to?

[mykonian]

And with those two votes I can now proudly say that Emp_dear is a shit wagon. All three possible scum on one wagon! JACKPOT.

[em+p_dear]

Oops- sorry myko! I knew it started with an 'm'. Still need to get used to these new usernames ^^;

emp, when did your read on drynify change?

Day 2, really. The fishing for night kill answers may have put him on my radar, but what really got to me was that he didn't give any indication of suspecting me in posts or in reads until after I said I was starting to suspect him. He was asked twice what he thought about who is who, and both times he merely replied that he would 'read earlier posts' (paraphrasing) giving plenty time for others to post their reads and him to figure out who was safe to suspect. No indication even of what he was looking for/thinking about.

@Nacho-'Kay I answered your questions, why haven't you answered any?

Oh it seems there's a wagon on me. Awesome. And L2, huh? Shit, I guess a lot can happen over night. I'm still not seeing smash as scum though. He had eyes on me since-I believe it was post #55?- anyway. Of course, he could have seen that as a tell that I would be a weak player and knew that pointing the finger at me now might help him later, but if he was really weeding out possible weaklings to pick on, he would have also suspected Xeg-which he did not-unless the two of them are both scum, which I find ever-the-more unlikely. Dyr & nacho don't surprise me, though.

[em+p_dear]

Also

VOTE: Dyrynify

PS-congrats smash on the new family member on the way

[Smashbard]

I was not aware of Emp Dears gender, so bringing up me being a pig trying to mascaraed as a nice guy when I have a wife and a kid on the way is pretty egregious character assassination of me on your part. If that's what you're trying to say.

I'm not going to get all bent up out of shape about it demanding an apology, but I am going to say that you're just flat out wrong. Like, about everything.

You've been harping on me since you replaced in, despite having nothing to really go off of on me, and now you've just posted a giant piece of fluff trying to indite me against some stupid case about how scummy I am, without even really scumhunting against anybody except for myself all day.

Obviously Emp Dear is afraid of trying to defend themselves against the suspicions of an IC because of their earlier post wanting to know whether or not it would be wise to even go after an IC due to the need for an IC to answer questions from new players. She is obviously lost as to how to proceed with the game so I was giving advice.

The same kind of advice I was giving Xegar about his Page 1 Roleclaim. I know I said earlier in the game that I was merely an SE and not trained to answer newbies questions, but when I see bad play in a newbie game I can't help that little tick that goes off in my head that makes me want to correct it.

If I'm trying to coach Emp Dear on how to better survive, I was also coaching Xegarus on how to better survive as well. So if you're trying to say that I am scum for that, I guess you and I would be scumpartners too right? Since you replaced Xegar and all. Two problems, there can't be three scum and I'm not one of them.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Pretty sure I'm accusing you of buddying, but if that's the way you want to go, be my guest.

vote smashbard

for this post as much as the previous. Who wants to fish out the amount of arguments which had nothing to do with the accusation posted? Or do I have to?

If I got something wrong out of your post then I suppose that would be because you A) weren't very concise and B) what you did say was fluffy and didn't make a whole lot of sense. So I took what I could from it. So I'll actually be the first to say yes, please explain which arguments had nothing to do with your accusation. I have nothing to dodge, I'll answer anything you got for me.

Next time you try to make a case, make sure you've got plenty of sleep. Because half asleep wall posting is never going to get you much support.

If all you've got on me is RQS and Buddying, what do you have to say about Nacho buddying CF Riot and yourself? Of Xegarus (you) buddying CF Riot? Of Kitie (Skrew) buddying me?

Oh that's right, you're ignoring all of my perfectly valid questions because you feel I am scum. Believe it or not that's why I'm not hounding you as one of my top two scum suspects, because so far the way you've conducted yourself is town in my eyes. Really bad town, because you're not willing to listen. But town all the same.

[Smashbard]

Could someone play middle man for me since Mykonian is going to do the whole "I'm not talking to you! *plugs ears*" strategy. All I need is for someone not named Smashbard to ask the exact same questions I am asking, since so long as he feels I'm scum he's going to refuse to answer any of them.

[Smashbard]

Oops- sorry myko! I knew it started with an 'm'. Still need to get used to these new usernames ^^;

emp, when did your read on drynify change?

Day 2, really. The fishing for night kill answers may have put him on my radar, but what really got to me was that he didn't give any indication of suspecting me in posts or in reads until after I said I was starting to suspect him. He was asked twice what he thought about who is who, and both times he merely replied that he would 'read earlier posts' (paraphrasing) giving plenty time for others to post their reads and him to figure out who was safe to suspect. No indication even of what he was looking for/thinking about.

@Nacho-'Kay I answered your questions, why haven't you answered any?

Oh it seems there's a wagon on me. Awesome. And L2, huh? Shit, I guess a lot can happen over night. I'm still not seeing smash as scum though. He had eyes on me since-I believe it was post #55?- anyway. Of course, he could have seen that as a tell that I would be a weak player and knew that pointing the finger at me now might help him later, but if he was really weeding out possible weaklings to pick on, he would have also suspected Xeg-which he did not-unless the two of them are both scum, which I find ever-the-more unlikely. Dyr & nacho don't surprise me, though.

If Dyrnify is scum, why would he hammer TheDoc before me purposefully drawing attention to himself? I'm still trying to figure that out. If it wasn't for that I would be in total agreement that Dyrnify is scum. But I can't figure out why as scum he would feel the need to quicklynch when he could just frame me for hammering TheDoc and causing a mislynch.

What makes you believe Nacho is scum? Is it based solely on the fact that he hasn't let up on you?

What is your opinion about Kitiekat/SleepyKrew?

[em+p_dear]

Even the hammer I don't feel as overwhelmingly town. If he was mafia, would it really have been that bad a move on his part considering he's seen as innocent by everyone else for making it? Though that line of thinking may be very WIFOM, it isn't enough to make me drop him as a suspect by itself.

As for nacho, I don't think it's so much him not letting up as it is the 'flip' in his reading of kittie/sk. Also, even though he's asked me plenty of questions, he has yet to address any of mine.

I would idealy like to see more of SK's posts to get a more solid read, but was not overtly suspicious of kittie and am not at the moment suspicious of SK.

[TraceyLyn11]

VOTE COUNT 2.5

[L-4] Dyrynify: em+p_dear

[L-5] mykonian:

[L-2] em+p_dear: Nachomamma8, Smashbard, Dyrynify

[L-5] Om:

[L-5] SleepyKrew:

[L-5] CF Riot:

[L-4] Smashbard: mykonian

[L-3] Nachomamma8: Om, CF Riot

Not Voting:

1 (SleepyKrew)

• With eight alive, it takes five to lynch.
  
• Day Two's deadline: January 18, 2013 CST or in (expired on 2013-01-18 01:10:00).
  
• V/LA: SleepyKrew (indefinitely)

[mykonian]

If I got something wrong out of your post then I suppose that would be because you A) weren't very concise and B) what you did say was fluffy and didn't make a whole lot of sense. So I took what I could from it. So I'll actually be the first to say yes, please explain which arguments had nothing to do with your accusation. I have nothing to dodge, I'll answer anything you got for me.

It made sense to me.

Next time you try to make a case, make sure you've got plenty of sleep. Because half asleep wall posting is never going to get you much support.

And I was fully awake while making that post.

If all you've got on me is RQS and Buddying, what do you have to say about Nacho buddying CF Riot and yourself? Of Xegarus (you) buddying CF Riot? Of Kitie (Skrew) buddying me?

And all that makes you scum together with how you are dealing with the accusations. You spend as much time talking about personal stuff as the actual case.

Oh that's right, you're ignoring all of my perfectly valid questions because you feel I am scum. Believe it or not that's why I'm not hounding you as one of my top two scum suspects, because so far the way you've conducted yourself is town in my eyes. Really bad town, because you're not willing to listen. But town all the same.

If a valid question is "I'm getting a kid, what do you think about it?". Yes I ignored that. Talking about fluff.

[Smashbard]

*Yawn* that's nice Myko. Let me know when you actually want to help catch some scum. Because you still haven't answered what you think about any of the other players in the game. Besides saying that myself. Dyrnify, Nacho & Emp Dear are all somehow inextricably linked as scum.

I'm beginning to think you just call anyone who disagrees with you scum. That would explain why half the players alive are the scumteam to you. That's ok though, I can understand that the stress of playing half asleep can cause people to be delusional and not realizing that only two scum can exist in a newbie game.

[mykonian]

Also

VOTE: Dyrynify

PS-congrats smash on the new family member on the way

That one? Ok.

vote Dyryryfy

[em+p_dear]

@Myko- You seeing Dyr and nacho as suspicious, too? They your biggest, or smash? Also, who do you see as town?

[Om]

Dry wagon is as shitty as Em+p_d one. Anyone not voting Nacho is basically avoiding to vote scummiest person on D2 and I've no idea why..

[CF Riot]

Dry wagon is as shitty as Em+p_d one. Anyone not voting Nacho is basically avoiding to vote scummiest person on D2 and I've no idea why..

[CF Riot]

Not really, I just wanted to do that for the effect. Dyr is kinda scummy but I think Nacho is a better lynch.

[Smashbard]

Unvote. Vote: Nacho.

We're not getting anywhere having everyone split within three wagons. Obviously my reasons for suspecting Emp Dear are not convincing enough to everyone else, so yes, I'm compromising with two of my town reads rather than the Dyrnify Wagon because nobody can give me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would hammer as scum on Day 1.

[Nachomamma8]

In the meantime, Nacho, who's scum?

Current thoughts are em+p and dyrnify, but they don't work as a team. Myko, Om, and CF are all pretty strong townreads.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Ping.
Myko has been talking about different suspects, has been voting different suspects. Him not having the balls to vote you is an odd point, and it seems like you're trying to play a "vote me, I dare you" game which isn't a game townies play.

You were so sure that kittie was scum and made a good case against her and then all of the sudden, she's not so suspicious anymore.

Mostly due to her leaving post. I got her to take a position, got her to give reads, and she ended up going after a target that really wasn't that popular at all, which was not a reaction i expected if she felt pressured at all. i wanted to see an additional post to see how she would handle cf's treatment of her vote, but no luck there.

Is this just because of the data the wagon gives or is there another reason?

I've been a bit aggressive with your wagons because I won't be able to read you worth shit if you don't do something, and getting that wagon on you is the quickest way to get there.

As for Majiffy (that's Xeg's replacement, right?) I began to see him as innocent when other people began accusing me of scum. As smash pointed out, I was passive about it and instead of flat out asking people why they suspected me, I went back and reread my old posts and saw a lot of the same things Xeg wrote in his posts. I said some things that were stupid/suspicious, and from an objective point of view, I seemed wishy-washy and easily persuaded/discouraged by others. Initially, these were the very reasons I suspected Xeg, but in comparison, I found that I did them all as well. The more people suspected me, the more I reread my posts and the less scum/more clueless noob I began to see in him.

I like this reasoning a lot.

Could someone play middle man for me since Mykonian is going to do the whole "I'm not talking to you! *plugs ears*" strategy. All I need is for someone not named Smashbard to ask the exact same questions I am asking, since so long as he feels I'm scum he's going to refuse to answer any of them.

mykonian is a more thoughtful player than you think he is

Unvote. Vote: Nacho.

We're not getting anywhere having everyone split within three wagons. Obviously my reasons for suspecting Emp Dear are not convincing enough to everyone else, so yes, I'm compromising with two of my town reads rather than the Dyrnify Wagon because nobody can give me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would hammer as scum on Day 1.

because he didn't see your intent to hammer
because there weren't any scum on the wagon and he was getting antsy
because he suspected doctor of being a power role and didn't want to give him time to actually claim