Newbie 1315: Van Helsing (Over)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Your last post in this thread is on page 4 of your list of posts.

To come in here quickly and post in GD/post a VC in my game/post a quick post in game not yet wall-y/etc, but haven't had the chance to actually sit down for a good period of time.

[MP5]

@

Bitmap

- I know you said "could be scum", in fact that was relevant to the point that I made. You threw out "could be scum" without sufficient reasoning behind it - as I pointed out, that's scum-motivated because you can fall back on that if you're ever pushing for his lynch in the future. You had to contradict your earlier read on him to put it out there as well, and that is what is scummy.

I get why you would say that a vig should target Spawn - at the moment, Spawn is dividing the town with his weak defence. If he were to be killed and flip town, then any scum on his wagon would have to come out of hiding and attack a less easily lynchable target. It's not quite the same as lynching him, we only get two mislynches and I don't want to run the risk of wasting any just yet - however, if this was a game with a vig, we'd only need to avert one night kill with a doc/JK/RB that we'd still get two mislynches.

@

paladin

- wouldn't a rose by any other name still smell as sweet? I don't know what objection you have to the name of the category - I merely conglomerated the collective suspicions of all players under the one heading, which I figured would be natural to title "Under suspicion". Remember that this communal "under suspicion" and our own individual scum reads are two separate things, which are not fully mutually exclusive but sufficiently separate. I do hold a level of confidence in my own town, scum and null reads, the degree of that confidence gives me the strength of those reads.

@

kwll

- I agree with the dichotomy (choice between two options) of post 167. My question - why point this out yet not take a stance either side and give some reasons? Up until this point, you hadn't even considered the "frustrated townie" possibility, so throwing it in now is just WIFOM. If it is 50-50, then do you feel you should have your vote on him? And if not, why?

P-Edit: Hi SAD. All will be forgiven if you can show us how to scumhunt and play It is a newbie game after all, and I feel it could well do with some consistent IC input to encourage the more quiet to play along. Plus, y'know, would kinda like to get a read on you.

[serrapaladin]

MP5, my objection was directed against you defining these three groups as roughly dividing us:

• Under Suspicion
  
• Flying Low
  
• Contributing

followed by the question which one is most likely to contain scum.

'Active vs. inactive' is one logical partition, another is 'under suspicion vs. not under suspicion'. In the former, your question is 'correctly' answered by stating WIFOM, but the later should, by definition, be answered with 'under suspicion'. Mixing these two types of partitioning, as you did, and then asking the same question can only lead to objectionable answers. You claim to have laid a trap for unsuspecting newb scum, when, in fact, you could have objected to any given answer, as the question itself was flawed.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Okay, caught up. Some things to point out:

I like Bitmap’s aggressiveness in 138 and 140.

Spawn

, you said in 142 that you “think kwll is scum which is also why [you’re] voting on him right now”. What is your scumread on him based on, if I may ask? Also, don’t always associate voting for someone with you have a scumread on them. Most times, yes. But your vote can be used for things like pressuring, etc. But you say you have a scumread on kwll. I’m interested in hearing where it comes from.

145- “Do you disagree with the general notion that scum has more of an incentive to avoid attention than town?” This is definitely not always true. Scum can be in the spotlight the whole time, or directing lynches, or “guiding” the town. Don’t get stuck into thinking one way, of how an “ideal” scum would work.

Like Bitmap’s 146. Think the aggressiveness is a lot more genuine and townish than scum-motivated.

Awest

, 149, interested in hearing why Bitmap is your strongest townread (In fact, I would love it if you can explain all those 3 townreads when you get a chance )

150- “Need more questions asked of SAD, Bitmap, awest, and myself.” Ask away

156 Not good enough. Seems like you’re just soft-pushing spawn at this point without really doing much, and just looking for reasons to camp your vote.

166 “Decide already, lynch me or not. I'm tired of this. I should just start playing even more scum like so it will be decisive.” No, no, no. Just no. Just, every time you feel like writing this again, take a deep breath, scratch off what you wrote, and start new with something more pro-town (assuming you’re town). But to be truthful with you, this is HELL of a scummy post, where you just attempt to do this “woe is me” and “self-pity” defense. Also, definitely not liking the appeal to emotion.

[Bitmap]

@

Bitmap

- I know you said "could be scum", in fact that was relevant to the point that I made. You threw out "could be scum" without sufficient reasoning behind it - as I pointed out, that's scum-motivated because you can fall back on that if you're ever pushing for his lynch in the future. You had to contradict your earlier read on him to put it out there as well, and that is what is scummy.

Lol noob, go look at SAD's ISO. Look at 139 and 173. Two to three days of no activity from him right after I replaced in. That screams scum. It looked like from my perspective that he was trying to avoid me since 139 was around the time I replaced in. I had a town read because I just replaced in and he seemed to post regularly but just stopped after I replaced in.

I get why you would say that a vig should target Spawn - at the moment, Spawn is dividing the town with his weak defence. If he were to be killed and flip town, then any scum on his wagon would have to come out of hiding and attack a less easily lynchable target. It's not quite the same as lynching him, we only get two mislynches and I don't want to run the risk of wasting any just yet - however, if this was a game with a vig, we'd only need to avert one night kill with a doc/JK/RB that we'd still get two mislynches.

This post is quite cute. I meant it metaphorically about the whole vig shtick. It's meant to mean that Spawn is scummy but not scummy enough to waste a lynch on.

@All:

So if anyone else has any attacks on my play style, speak up. I'm going to be starting to go through and post some general tibits about everyone here. And to everyone who attacked me, I'm surprised none of you put an FOS or vote on me. Weak sauce from all of you.

[kwll]

@kwll - I agree with the dichotomy (choice between two options) of post 167. My question - why point this out yet not take a stance either side and give some reasons? Up until this point, you hadn't even considered the "frustrated townie" possibility, so throwing it in now is just WIFOM. If it is 50-50, then do you feel you should have your vote on him? And if not, why?

Unless I moved my vote off without me looking...I am still voting for him. He is my strongest read so far. As for considering frustrated townie, I am truly 50-50. Cant remember if this is his first game, if it is he needs to learn that we are after everybody and everything you

may

will

be used against you. So getting upset about it wont help you. If he has read the [urlhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page]wiki [/url] he would know this. Right here in the post I decided to reISO him to find out if he has played mafia before and he has. I will recant my statment of 50 50 and say there is way less of chance of him doing this than being a scum bag.

MP5

I am not sure if you get scum pts or town pts. Scum pts for attempting to defend a lynch target so you can save him for later or Town pts for maybe really thinking he is frustrated town.

[kwll]

@bitmap

I highly doubt there is a Vig in a newbie game. But usually you want to save them till later, they usually shoot townies early on. I was in a game where the Vig kept shooting townies till the very end where he finally bagged one. Even shot his own bodyguard.

for your play-style...I find it hilarious and refreshing. If this is your usually ...mannerisms when you post...This will be an enjoyable game.

and I am calling bullshit on SAD avoiding you. Why would he need to? Something could of actually occured with the timing of your replacement...He wasn't under suspicion so I am not buying it.

[Bitmap]

@bitmap

I highly doubt there is a Vig in a newbie game.

But usually you want to save them till later, they usually shoot townies early on. I was in a game where the Vig kept shooting townies till the very end where he finally bagged one. Even shot his own bodyguard.

This post is quite cute.

I meant it metaphorically about the whole vig shtick.

It's meant to mean that Spawn is scummy but not scummy enough to waste a lynch on.

@All:

So if anyone else has any attacks on my play style, speak up. I'm going to be starting to go through and post some general tibits about everyone here. And to everyone who attacked me, I'm surprised none of you put an FOS or vote on me. Weak sauce from all of you.

Gosh people, learn to read everything before speaking nonsense.

and I am calling bullshit on SAD avoiding you. Why would he need to? Something could of actually occured with the timing of your replacement...He wasn't under suspicion so I am not buying it.

You sir, should learn about reaction testing. Unfortunately, there's no real article on it on the mafiascum wiki so read ol' UberNinja's thread about it. It's a good read.

[Bitmap]

@SAD:

Come on SAD, chop chop. I can't be the one teaching these kids everything about mafia now can I?

[kwll]

In post 181, kwll wrote:and I am calling bullshit on SAD avoiding you. Why would he need to? Something could of actually occured with the timing of your replacement...He wasn't under suspicion so I am not buying it.



You sir, should learn about reaction testing. Unfortunately, there's no real article on it on the mafiascum wiki so read ol' UberNinja's thread about it. It's a good read.

you got a reaction right?

[Bitmap]

In post 181, kwll wrote:and I am calling bullshit on SAD avoiding you. Why would he need to? Something could of actually occured with the timing of your replacement...He wasn't under suspicion so I am not buying it.



You sir, should learn about reaction testing. Unfortunately, there's no real article on it on the mafiascum wiki so read ol' UberNinja's thread about it. It's a good read.

you got a reaction right?

Yeah, from people other than my target(SAD) which I find to be hilarious.

[Bitmap]

I'm not sure I agree with that reasoning, Bitmap. If Spawn were the single preferential target for a vig NK, he should also be the preferential target for our lynch. If you think he's leaning frustrated newb town, you should advocate lynching or vig NKing anyone who's more scum-leaning than him.

Also, that was quite a jump on your part from 'painting me scummy for questioning your vote/argument against Spawn' to 'jumping back off the wagon.' Along with your reads of SAD (see MP5's posts), this makes you look quite fickle.

Well now, I wish I knew who was scum like the back of my hand but I don't. Do you? Thus, my reads will obviously change from time to time. And you don't get it do you? I put the L-1 on Spawn so I could see how he would react from being so close to the cutting board. My educated guess would be that he is nub town but I'm not sure yet. His play has been scummy but I've seen it out of newb town so I'm not sure yet. Hypothetically, if there exists a vig in this game, the vig should shoot Spawn because it would be a bad idea to have him stay till LyLo and would be a waste of a lynch if that happened since we should focus on people who slipped harder.

[kwll]

I am sorry...next time I see bullshit I will not comment.
(promise broken)

paladin

Why do you think the MP5 quest is flawed? I actually find it insightful on what people are looking for in scum. Some people are biased by either how they perceive scum or how they have seen scum act in other games and defeated them. I did play one game where a guy was jumping on people who acted similar to scum who bested him in his last match.

So yes its WIFOM question but also allows to glimpse at the bias people will be using on their reads.

I thinking of awarding you Scum pts for that answer on it. But maybe you have town reason for it?

[Bitmap]

I am sorry...next time I see bullshit I will not comment.
(promise broken)

It's okay. Just try not to play with the tryhards (*cough* MagnaofIllusion *cough*) and everything will be fine.

[Bitmap]

Oh hey hey hey, I see Nekoko browsing this forum.

[Bitmap]

Awest

, 149, interested in hearing why Bitmap is your strongest townread (In fact, I would love it if you can explain all those 3 townreads when you get a chance )

Seconded!

[kwll]

Nekoko probably got the prod.

btw I googled that bitmap. I am not an alt.

[Bitmap]

btw I googled that bitmap. I am not an alt.

Googled what?

[kwll]

MagnaofIllusion

[Bitmap]

MagnaofIllusion

Oh lol. Yeah, that guy will post paragraphs after paragraphs after paragraphs about his scum reads. It's kind of tedious.

[Nekoko]

My isp is crap. Will post more tonight (6-9 hours from now)

@SAD: Put some pressure on Spawnisen. Why attack kwll? You're just alleviating the pressure on spawnisen. We need a good bandwagon to make people squirm.

@Nekoko: Read the @SAD part.

Because I think spawn looks newb town???

In post 80, serrapaladin wrote:but do explain to me, Nekoko, why you feel your vote is best placed on me

I already answered that in Post #106

[Nekoko]

Nekoko probably got the prod.

btw I googled that bitmap. I am not an alt.

The mod is probably inactive too, I have yet to receive the prod message

[Bitmap]

@SAD: Put some pressure on Spawnisen. Why attack kwll? You're just alleviating the pressure on spawnisen. We need a good bandwagon to make people squirm.

@Nekoko: Read the @SAD part.

Because I think spawn looks newb town???

Okay, sounds legit. I'll be waiting for your catch up.

[kwll]

Walls of reads or a separate post for each read?
Need to do a beer run. Getting antsy waiting for might Nek wisdom on our mortal matters.

ooooo...you prod dodger....Now lets here your reads on what has been happening.

[Nekoko]

MagnaofIllusion

Oh lol. Yeah, that guy will post paragraphs after paragraphs after paragraphs about his scum reads. It's kind of tedious.

Yeah. To tell you the truth, because I find it hilarious that you guys hate walls I tried to post walls in each post like MoI in that game.