Newbie 1310: A WILD CHARIZARD APPEARED! - GAME OVER

[CF Riot]

Cause if youre town please, lynch me today.

I'm trying.

[TheTrollie]

@om: what was ur read of xeg throughout D1? pls narrate.

What was the point of you asking me that again? You didn't really follow up on it either.
Are you planning to 'narrate' your own reads so far anytime soon? Your predecessor didn't really gave much to look into for my liking, I hope you can put more on table before D2 ends.

ive given several of my reads

[TheTrollie]

Om is town btw.

I might switch to smash wagon but only if agree Nacho is tomorrow's likely kill

[mykonian]

yeah sure, nacho tomorrow promise swear etc.

[Nachomamma8]

Links?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22799

He would if you two are scum buddies, any opportunity to shift vote from you to dry would've done him good.

Unless the point was to distance; following your scumbuddies reasoning onto a lynch isn't always the best idea if you want to separate yourself from them.

Wait. What myko push? Explain pleas, I seems to have missed something.

I'm talking about the minor arguments myko and Smash have gotten into over non game-relevant things.

If he thought you were getting pushed for shity reasons he wont vote for you in the first place. But he did, he got gut read from 2 pages you haven't posted at all or no one gave any so called new 'shity' reasons he already didn't knew of.

I'm guessing he did a little rereading as opposed to what was originally a sheep. But I see your point.

It is, for one; town push for lynch of the scummy people and scum push for weak/easy ones.

Sometimes the easy lynches are the right ones.

I believe Brad is town. If he is lynched first, it's likely that you and Om's paranoia will fuck up LyLo. If I am lynched first, I'm pretty sure my gigantic frowning ghost hanging over your heads will be enough for Brad to survive in LyLo.

I'd probably still want to lynch Brad if you flipped town. That said, if both of you are town then yeah, we might be screwed cause I'm so ready for you both to swing and your appeal to fear doesn't sway me in the slightest.

It's more of an appeal to pride, but I don't actually expect it to do anything until I actually flip.

[Nachomamma8]

TROLLIE
WHY IS DYR OBVTOWN
WHY AM I SCUM
TWO QUESTIONS

[TheTrollie]

honestly because i have:

"dyrynify town"

written in my notes i took while catching up. I saw something that made him town. I will try to find it.

Yeah ok, both my scum reads on dyr wagon, Nacho & smash wagons are all town.

Om would u consider switching your vote to smash?

VOTE: smash

i believe thats L-2

[Nachomamma8]

okay we're getting somewhere
why am I scum?

[TheTrollie]

The one scummy thing that dyr does is that he often adds rhetoric that weakens claims he makes in posts. (something i call distancing but since distancing means something else already i have to come up with another term). However, I believe this is not a scumtell for dyr because this behavior is commonly seen in newbies independent of their alignment, because they are learning the game and are unsure of themselves sometimes.

Dyr's posts come off as very genuine to me, which is why he is a strong town read. he is markedly reactive to things and markedly open when he posts. He is answering a lot of questions, and doesnt seem to be restrictive or hiding anything. Thats why hes a town read for me.

[Nachomamma8]

okay.
now why am I scum?

[TheTrollie]

@nacho: My scumread on you is because you are playing this game by poking ever so slightly at each player/issue and waiting for one of them to catch steam. You don't seem to be pushing any of your own reads, but instead are trying to pick issues that are agreeable to the rest of the players. You also will do this thing where you take someone else's case/read and add to it to try to get that player moving in a particular direction (i.e. that their scum read is obvscum).

if you guys need something more concrete to vote on, look how Nacho's read on DYR goes 180:

Spoiler: irrelevant part of the post

VOTE: Nachomamma8, cause they are the only person I have played with before.

HI, NACHO!

Hello. Ready to lynch scum day one again? Good.

I will ask all of you a small series of questions to gauge where we are all coming from. There really isn't a wrong answer to any of these questions. This is just a way to break the ice.

Break the ice and... delay the actual game from beginning. Question 1 is nice for getting to know people, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads on site if you want to meet people and find out why they play. Question 2 is... useless, obviously. 3 is also useless. Of course everyone trusts their own reads instead of their own unless someone else is convincing or not. None of these help with scumhunting, all of these add useless things to my thread. Please don't do random questions ever again pretty pretty please. These were less anti-town than they usually are, but that doesn't mean they are good

I'll say this now, i'm a vanilla town.
Whether i'm lying or not is up to you.
But if something doesn't add up, then SOMEONE did lie.

Mmmm... don't do this. If you are lying as town, then your PR claim won't be believed down the road, which is a very, very bad thing, since you would probably be forced to claim when a majority of the town finds you scummy anyways. If you are telling the truth as town, then you're basically saying "hey guys, I make a perfectly good mislynch! Don't kill me!" if they paranoid of you being a PR, they will rolecop you. They will not kill you. If you are mafia, this just brings the spotlight to you.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

If you gain nothing, you probably don't want to do it. You can never really gauge consequences until they are hitting you in the face in most scenarios.

I understand how random questions can be a stupid thing and basically force people to post for the sake of posting. But is that really so bad early on in the game? (thats a serious question)

Yes it is. The opening of games is extremely important, and RQS makes them a lot more muddled, a lot less advantageous for town. If you get the game started early and you don't give scum time to get comfortable, then things get interesting. For example, I normally would call Doctor scum for avoiding things and posting crap (I still probably will), but for now, I don't really know whether he is newbie who doesn't know where to start and so goes with answering random questions, or whether he is scum coasting.

I really like

em+d and

Dyr for town.

And yeah, gonna vote Doc anyways.

Vote: TheDoctor

Spoiler: irrelevant

I see the vote for Doc cause he answered the random Q's and posting crap, but I'm wondering why. A lot of us answered those random q's (which I think is what you're referencing as posting crap), was there other crap he posted or something other than the answering of the random questions that makes him more scummy? Cause if it's just for answering those questions that could be a lot of people.

It wasn't the answering questions that set me off, it was more that he did absolutely nothing else with it. The fact that he didn't respond to the page one VT claim tells me that he hasn't read, but if he hasn't read, then how did he know to answer those RQS questions? More likely than not, he was looking for something to post, found the random questions, answered them, and stopped reading. That tells me he's just posting to get by, which makes him likelier scum than not.

If you lynch say on D1, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance getting town. Now N1, a town will always be killed. So by lynching eveyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1.
Now i know that eliminating scum is how you win the game for town. But can't that be said as keeping as many townies alive?

If you lynch on Day 2, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance of getting town. Now N2, a town will always be killed. So, by lynching everyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1. So, it's optimal never to lynch because then we never lose 2 town!
...but that's not how it works. We have three chances to hit scum before we lose. No lynching D1 basically says that fuck it, we're obviously going to win this game so we need a handicap, let's do this with only two chances to hit scum instead. In fact, everytime we no lynch when there are an odd number of players alive, we're essentially throwing away one of our chances for absolutely no reason. So yeah, we want to lynch pretty much every day. Exception would be if there are 6 players alive and 2 scum left OR 4 players alive and 1 scum left and there isn't a confirmed town around. Then you might want to no lynch so you would have the minimum amount of suspects, but only then.

So what you're saying that it's a bad move if i am town or scum. Hence just a bad move altogether?

Precisely.

Why?
Am i really to close to see exactly whats so town about them?

Dyr

is being aggressive, targetting something that he regards to be scummy and locking on tight. While he does that, he's also looking around, criticizing people, searching for the other scum.

I find that pretty town.

Em+p is more of a tonal read, but the conscious creating of bandwagons to get people closer to a lynch is pretty cool, pretty cool.

I would like elaboration as to why theres a wagon on the doctor and why empdear is town. I see dry and xegarus as town. Don't know about nacho. He wan this chummy in our last game. *Wasnt

Really? Pretty sure I buddied the hell out of camn last game until I thought she was scum.

dyr

, xeg, em+p, you, smash

townreads

doctor scumread
preference of katiekatt over om

and then out of nowhere:

Unvote, Vote: em+p_dear

I don't mind dyr votes.

Now, in this ONE post, nacho VOTES em+p_dear who he had as a town read not so long before this vote, AND claims that he is fine with dyr votes, another one of his town reads. the em+p_dear 180 might be an even stronger case but I haven't looked at that yet. My guess is Nacho was trying to spin his em+p townread into a lynch candidate, but when that didn't take steam and he saw the dyr wagon coming, he started laying out the groundwork for him to be able to jump onto it once it was time.

In the meantime, Nacho,

who's scum?

Current thoughts are

em+p and dyrnify

, but they don't work as a team. Myko, Om, and CF are all pretty strong townreads.

Spoiler: irrelevant

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Ping.
Myko has been talking about different suspects, has been voting different suspects. Him not having the balls to vote you is an odd point, and it seems like you're trying to play a "vote me, I dare you" game which isn't a game townies play.

You were so sure that kittie was scum and made a good case against her and then all of the sudden, she's not so suspicious anymore.

Mostly due to her leaving post. I got her to take a position, got her to give reads, and she ended up going after a target that really wasn't that popular at all, which was not a reaction i expected if she felt pressured at all. i wanted to see an additional post to see how she would handle cf's treatment of her vote, but no luck there.

Is this just because of the data the wagon gives or is there another reason?

I've been a bit aggressive with your wagons because I won't be able to read you worth shit if you don't do something, and getting that wagon on you is the quickest way to get there.[/spoiler]

As for Majiffy (that's Xeg's replacement, right?) I began to see him as innocent when other people began accusing me of scum. As smash pointed out, I was passive about it and instead of flat out asking people why they suspected me, I went back and reread my old posts and saw a lot of the same things Xeg wrote in his posts. I said some things that were stupid/suspicious, and from an objective point of view, I seemed wishy-washy and easily persuaded/discouraged by others. Initially, these were the very reasons I suspected Xeg, but in comparison, I found that I did them all as well. The more people suspected me, the more I reread my posts and the less scum/more clueless noob I began to see in him.

I like this reasoning a lot.

here, nacho starts agreeing with emp who he just said, EARLIER IN THIS POST, that he thought was scum, another 180. +scum for nacho

Spoiler: irrelevant

Could someone play middle man for me since Mykonian is going to do the whole "I'm not talking to you! *plugs ears*" strategy. All I need is for someone not named Smashbard to ask the exact same questions I am asking, since so long as he feels I'm scum he's going to refuse to answer any of them.

mykonian is a more thoughtful player than you think he is

Unvote. Vote: Nacho.

We're not getting anywhere having everyone split within three wagons. Obviously my reasons for suspecting Emp Dear are not convincing enough to everyone else, so yes, I'm compromising with two of my town reads rather than the Dyrnify Wagon because nobody can give me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would hammer as scum on Day 1.

because he didn't see your intent to hammer
because there weren't any scum on the wagon and he was getting antsy
because he suspected doctor of being a power role and didn't want to give him time to actually claim

Unvote, Vote: Dyrnify

I thought emp handled my pressure really well. Interestingly enough, the Xegar read that I didn't even mean to ask for in the first place is what's giving me the strongest townread on the slot; it makes a lot of sense that emp would find him town after she was called out for doing certain things and saw Xegar doing those same things. Dyr, on the other hand, has really fallen off since Day 1, which I find pretty fucking suspicious. I thought that if he was scum, he had a pretty good day 1, but today he's not really pushing anyone and only voting emp when it's based on his survival. Also found smash's vote on me pretty interesting and would like for him to confirm that he is voting me using Om's and CF's logic.

he forgot to vote dyr in #399 after giving us an awe inspiring performance about why dyr should be lynched, so he corrects for the mistake in #400. He backtracks on his EMP read out of nowhere in this same post, after forgetting to indicate why he all of the sudden likes EMP in #399.

tl;dr

Nacho = scum

btw, i will switch my vote back to Nacho in a heartbeat, as soon as one other player switches to nacho I will switch too, i had to change over to smash because I was worried about the dyr mislynch

[TheTrollie]

@mod: somehow i just like quadrouple posted a long one, can u delete the duplicates please? thanks

Your wish is my command.

[Nachomamma8]

jesus fucking christ trollie that was like pulling teeth out of a goddamn walrus
so i am happy with you being town again

[Nachomamma8]

so thank you

[TheTrollie]

vry good. thnx. now u wanna explain why your posting so bad as town?

[Nachomamma8]

I thought my posting has been pretty fucking awesome. I've been all over the place, but that's fine. You and myko call me out for gummybear posting, but I'm just a big gummybear I guess. I've attacked easy lynches, sure, but players are easier to read when they are under pressure, and I couldn't read them while they were bein' lurkfucks.

[TheTrollie]

WHAT ABOUT YOUR TOTAL 180 ON EMP BETWEEN THE BEGINNING OF #399 AND THE END OF #399

[em+p_dear]

I honestly didn't even know it was three days already I thought it was two o.o I'll catch up.

@CF - I think it's strange that they both turned on Dyr so suddenly (smash explained but I'm not quite sure if that's all there is to it and Nacho's complete pivot to Dyr and backing off of me I don't feel can be explained in anyway that I won't see it as weird). I mean, it's good for me I guess, and I don't want to question it, but I highly doubt that my counter arguments were enough to change Nacho's view. Although about what Om said, I don't think that he gave up on me either necissarily, because I was at L2 and would have been an easy lynch, so something must have happened to change his mind. If Dyr was to flip town, then I'd be looking at them first for scum buddies, but it doesn't seem like we're going through with the Dyr lynch, so as long as I see him as scum, I don't see smash & him working out. I could see him & Nacho though.

[Nachomamma8]

WHAT ABOUT YOUR TOTAL 180 ON EMP BETWEEN THE BEGINNING OF #399 AND THE END OF #399

THAT WASN'T A 180 TROLLIE
THAT WAS ME SAYING THAT EMP AND DYR WERE MY SCUMPICKS
AND THEN I SAW EMP MADE A GOOD POST
SO I WAS LIKE
WELL
I LIKE THE REASONING
LET ME CHECK MYSELF

[em+p_dear]

My current follow-up on my suspicion of Dyr is my recent "let's see people all pile on me and watch scumfuck Dyr be forced to hammer".

Not a bad idea, actually.

Unvote

VOTE: Nachomamma8

I doubt he'd be willing to do anything about it now since he's been called on it, but he's not the only one whose actions in regards to such a wagon I would like to observe.

[Om]

Nacho wrote:

I'm guessing he did a little rereading as opposed to what was originally a sheep. But I see your point.

-_-

Nacho wrote:

Sometimes the easy lynches are the right ones.

Maybe, but the way you've went about them is scummy.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

@Thetrollie;

I personally prefer Nacho lynch over smash today, we are going to have some difficulty to go trough Nacho lynch tomorrow if Brad flips town and one of the stronger towns go down tonight.
Also, I need to read that game Nacho linked, so I'll hold on shifting till then. We still have plenty of time.

[CF Riot]

vote: Nacho

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: nacho
L–1 no one hammer without claiming intent

[Nachomamma8]

now i feel alive
i specifically want dyr to hammer since you guys already have brad in your sights

[Dyrynify]

Ok.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Call me a bastard, I hate L-1 WIFOMY bullshit.