The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[Baby Spice]

I'm not feeling well at all so I'm going to be absent a couple of days

Mod v/la 72hrs

Though hopefully a little less

(#386)

[petapan]

for real though why are people ignoring safetydance

bs noise post. SD was the second largest waggon at that point (unless i'm blind).

stopping here, getting late.
sorry for the multi-post-spam.

man i was going to go to sleep but i just thought of this post and realized, he had 3 votes at the time (1 of which was me) which is basically nothing and calling it the "the second largest wagon at that point" is trying to disguise what the actual situation was, fuck off with this bullshit

[sottyrulez]

Okay so I am caught up. Liking the SafetyDance vote mostly because of his posturing and dismissive tone when it comes to a lot of the pressure. Also he brings up winning the recent vig4all? I don't really like that at all. I know Zach played in that game so when he wakes up I'll ask him about it, but right now, blegh.

CDB feels town to me. I remember him not enjoying scum and his posts here have been mostly good. benmage is feeling kinda town too, I like his push on Peta and might be down for a vote there if it wasn't for Post 378 which is an excellent point about Safety.

Jason is still town. I have known the guy for 8 years just about, played mafia with him on and off the last three or four years? I forget. But Zach and myself are pretty great when it comes to reading the Jason slot and we both feel Jason Town right now. He does dumb things like tunnel on the wrong people (vifam) all the time as town. There are only two people I am happy in just straight up reading and that's Zach and Jason. So yeah, that's where I'm at with that. If any of you Jason voters want to show me something in his meta to provoe me wrong then go ahead. Right now I'm just not seeing it.

Ironic or not, I don't really like any of the other hydras. TGAH I have already gone into and they are a strong scum read of mine. But the other two Plessiezarus and Cerulean both feel fake when I read their posts. It's more of a gut feeling too right now, I will have to recheck ISOs but something is bubbling there. I'm pretty sure I read Cerulean defending Plees from Camn too which makes me urk. But I will look back again later.

~Sotty

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 1, Votecount 19

Shadoweh (2) - Nostredeus, Baby Spice
Ser Arthur Dayne (1) - SafetyDance
JasonT1981 (3) - Ser Arthur Dayne, Cerulean, BT
Nostredeus (1) - TheGreatestAmericanHero

SafetyDance (6) - ChannelDelibird, absta101, petapan, Deasvail, McStab, sottyrulez

The Mini-Librarian (1) - Shadoweh
petapan (2) - Benmage, The Mini-Librarian
McStab (2) - Plessiezarus, camn

Not voting (1):

JasonT1981

• With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 6th of February at 5:30pm GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-02-06 13:30:28)
  
• Baby Spice, sottyrulez, Nostredeus and JasonT1981 are V/la.

[camn]

I'm pretty sure I read Cerulean defending Plees from Camn too which makes me urk. But I will look back again later.

I missed this- I would love to see it, if you can point it out.

[Konowa]

Short post short till I get off this afternoon.

Waiting on rofl to get back to me, if no response by then our vote will be moving to Jason. sotty can go next. Their 452 doesn't address the main issue for us of why Jason is likely scum (Jason pushing this crap that Dayne is scum because his RPing is "scum trying hard to fit in".

[BT]

Don't want to lynch Pless or SD. Former reads calm & genuine while latter reads like newbtown (newb + his "pls stop it SAD" sounds genuine). Pless read is weak but SD is actually pretty solid, people should back off of that wagon.

Librarian #390 gets a mention for commenting on the big wagons while still sticking to a vote that no one is interested in.

safetydance is showing an almost singular focus on defending his badvote where absta at least has some opinions and stuff (not good opinions, but still). also, absta actually bothers calling people scum while safetydance is still crying "antitown"

Former is a newbtell, not a scumtell.

Trash that McStab town lean in response to his completely forgetting about Nost after people calling Nost town + the SD wagon. (just ctrl+f nost @ his iso) Would lynch this or Librarian after Jason but they're comparatively weak reads.

Shadoweh is still pretty bad. Cerulean, you said you found something about her meta, right?

I am not convinced on Jasonscum. It certainly could be that he is fooling me, but I generally feel confident on my gut reads of Jason.
In re: my so-called "obsession"..... if that's gonna keep getting mentioned, I would like someone to point out where it actually happened. I am officially telling you that it was just a question, and one I would want answered any time someone displays a weird post-style. But to spin it as "obsession "...... It does occur to me to wonder why anyone would spin it that way So cite, please. Or retract.

IIRC I said that in my wallpost because I was directly quoting a dude for effect, not because that's what I thought (though I still think your scope is really small -_-).

I'm gonna give SAD's activity + Jason push a townpass for now. Not getting a read on him otherwise, might be because of the RP. (then again I had similar problems in mafiastuck so maybe not)

Ps- based on recent posts, I think Plezz and McStab are scum together.

Why is pless scum and why are they together?

SAD do you think that people townreading you are just naive or possibly scum who are faking reads

This is a question from town.

for real though why are people ignoring safetydance

bs noise post. SD was the second largest waggon at that point (unless i'm blind).

??? Inconsistency 'brb pointing all kinds of stuff without thinking about it" scummers is a go.

Not a fan of Sotty's reads so I don't know how much I'm willing to trust his unwavering Jason gutread. Can you actually point to specific parts of his posts that make you think town?

[TheGreatestAmericanHero]

Short post short till I get off this afternoon.

Waiting on rofl to get back to me, if no response by then our vote will be moving to Jason. sotty can go next. Their 452 doesn't address the main issue for us of why Jason is likely scum (Jason pushing this crap that Dayne is scum because his RPing is "scum trying hard to fit in".

Sorry.

[Cerulean]

i think it is a bad move given inexperience because that's what inexperience scum does - they whinge about people being

anti-town

and try to push based on that because they have difficulty calling people actually scummy

Eh, I'm not so sure that's exclusive to noob-scum though. Remember xtopherusD from Mafiastuck? I'm seeing a somewhat similar kind of player here - an inexperienced dude with rigid conceptions of pro-town behavior and playing accordingly.

Jason is still town. I have known the guy for 8 years just about, played mafia with him on and off the last three or four years? I forget. But Zach and myself are pretty great when it comes to reading the Jason slot and we both feel Jason Town right now. He does dumb things like tunnel on the wrong people (vifam) all the time as town. There are only two people I am happy in just straight up reading and that's Zach and Jason. So yeah, that's where I'm at with that. If any of you Jason voters want to show me something in his meta to provoe me wrong then go ahead. Right now I'm just not seeing it.

Him attacking "the wrong people" is not even remotely the issue we have with him. It's the fact that he's attacking Arthur and Vifam for their playstyles rather than anything alignment indicative and there's just an overall lack of substance coming from him (#122 still being the most egregious example). A lot of his posts read like they just exist to make him seem like he's contributing when he's really not. Also, just telling us to trust you isn't going to do much when you're not doing much to highlight the difference between his town play and his scum play. What's the difference between the two and how exactly is he playing like his town self? (For what it's worth, Tammy told me she feels like he's playing more like in TM 2012 Closed Normal where they were scum buddies than in Harry Potter. Tammy can probably elaborate on this better when she comes back, though.)

Shadoweh is still pretty bad. Cerulean, you said you found something about her meta, right?

Yeah. Looking over the games I linked here, I think she's a lot more abrasive as town in her reactions to pressure and her dealings with certain kinds of players (i.e., lurkers) whereas she tries to keep that to a minimum as scum and overall tries to be friendlier. I saw more of the former in her reaction to me earlier.

Since I know you and Shadoweh play off-site, what's your impression of her meta and what exactly do you feel is off about her here?

Shadoweh, similar question to you w.r.t. BT when you get back, please.

[Cerulean]

Hmmm, actually there's something interesting I just found out about SafetyDance I have to run by my other head first. Stay tuned.

[camn]

Why is pless scum and why are they together?

Please, PLEASE read the thread before you ask questions like this.
I dont have anything to elaborate on my reasons for thinking Pless is scum..and I think I have actually been quite clear for a Day-1 case in a large.
As far as the connection? Read the thread and we can talk about it.

In other news:
this is scummy.

SD is actually pretty solid, people should back off of that wagon.

Vifam was scummy in general, and so is his replacement. Also note the hypocrisy of asking me 'why' while delivering absolutely nothing in the way of 'why'.

And FURTHER furthermore:

Hmmm, actually there's something interesting I just found out about SafetyDance I have to run by my other head first. Stay tuned.

THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.
just spill it.
Its like if I said:
"Whoa.. I just had a crazy thought about Jason.... Im going to run it by my mother to see if it is logically viable right quick. Be back in a week."
Not useful to the game.
Either spill it.. or shut up about it and just tell us when after you have two-head-approval. Hydra self-reference is

not useful

.. and although I have townread on YOUR SLOT, I am starting to think it is a scumtell in general.

[Nostredeus]

Okay, I'm back, I'm going to go ahead and post a little bit of stuff but honestly it looks like most players would prefer me not to wall post.

Jason.

So this gambit thing, honestly I'm seeing a lot of explanations for why it was a bad idea but very few for why it makes Jason scum; I like #351, I think it's largely true, but again I don't see how it points to scum motivation.

I think I'm going to have to be hipster here and look elsewhere until someone provides an actual explanation for scum motivation. I do want to see where the questions in #458 go though.


SafetyDance.

I'm finding SD's posts pretty genuine; it's pretty mental to characterise his stuff as just being about SAD's RP, I'm finding players who are doing that to be latching on to this growing bandwagon. The stuff about SD's posturing is pretty decent though, and the 'I am so good at mafia look at my vig game" comment seemed weird to me, I'm probably going to hipster this wagon

for now

too though.


SAD

RP is annoying as balls, but that doesn't make SAD scum just obnoxious as fuck. SAD's stuff is pretty solid except:

Did you have a town-read on TML before your 396, and if so, why? (Is it because of his 390, is what I guess I'm really asking.)

Eh he was on his way to "townland" and I guess you can say that post pushed him over the fence.

Not sure why #390 is townish, seems to be the opposite to me, SAD?


Shadoweh

Haven't seen much from her lately, what we saw previously is bad, I'm unsure what people think has changed, my vote will be moved for now but I'm not at all satisfied here so it might go straight back.


Gunna give myself a few posts/another read through after food before I vote, potentially McStab; see my stuff on SD.

I know there were questions sent my way, mainly because I remember reading them at various points over the weekend, if they were important feel free to throw them out again if not I'll answer any I catch on the re-read and assume any I miss that aren't asked again weren't important.

UNVOTE: Shadoweh

[Plessiezarus]

As far as the connection? Read the thread and we can talk about it.

This is a good way to not answer the question, I guess .

Speaking of not answering questions:

First- I DID answer that question! But Perez didn't notice in his eagerness to create a counter crap case. Attack your attacker, hmm?

I looked for an answer, didn't see one. Still don't, really, unless the second sentence of 147 was meant to be one. Was it?

Well? Is that fragment of 147 meant to be an answer?

(I know, "ragh, READ THE THREAD", but ... isn't it easier to just answer a plain question than it is to make a huge fuss about having already answered it - and refuse to give any link or post number to reference where that answer was? Why make this so difficult?)

Vifam was scummy in general, and so is his replacement. Also note the hypocrisy of asking me 'why' while delivering absolutely nothing in the way of 'why'.

When did you decide Vifam was scummy? (I searched your ISO, and all I find is a post in which you agree with something Vifam says. Can't see you give any read on his slot before now.)

I actually think BT is looking pretty townish (especially in light of the way Vifam dropped out -- that definitely seems more like the action of lazy town than scum). (It also amuses me that Vifam's replacement seems to love walls as much as Vifam hated them.)

Hypocrisy isn't a scum-tell, either.

Either spill it.. or shut up about it and just tell us when after you have two-head-approval. Hydra self-reference is

not useful

.. and although I have townread on YOUR SLOT, I am starting to think it is a scumtell in general.

You seem to be confusing "things that are annoying" with "things that are scummy".

We all get that you don't like hydra self-reference. You've said this repeatedly. (It's funny that you seem to hate answering questions more than once, but are happy to keep telling us you dislike hydra self-referencing, over and over again. Except, for "funny", read "irritating".)

Hydra self-reference isn't a scum-tell. It's

clearly

not. Hydras make references to their multiple heads all the time, as both alignments. If you find hydras annoying or whatever, good for you -- but you signed up for a game which multiple hydras had pre-\inned for. You could have guessed that those hydras would behave as most hydras do and make reference to each head individually like this. Given that, it's a bit tedious that you feel the urge to keep shouting about this topic. Nobody's forcing you to play with hydras, and hydras aren't going to change the way they play simply because you insist it's a scum-tell.

~ Pless

[camn]

OK, Plez. Here.

Camn - Do you really suspect people who give no reasons for their votes ...blah.... what are you doing here?

Cerulean- Encouraging us out of the RVS. Randomly naming names is the worst kind of first page. But- no longer relevant.

Do you feel better?
More importantly.. have I cleared anything up for you? Is something that was unclear now clear? Please tell us your conclusions..
Because me ignoring questions that dont actually help the game (that is, your question about if I answered a different question)- I do that for a reason. To avoid polluting the game with crap-spam.
I also protest the hydra stuff for the same reason....

to avoid polluting the thread with crap

.

Why? Because it is in the scum's best interest to fill the thread with nonsense that does

nothing

to expose ANYONE's alignment.
So if you are town, and you want to win, then think about it.
If you like stupid ego-wars, and that is more important to you than winning, OR if you are scum.. then keep it up. Me- i will continue to protest things that work against a town win.. because I actually like to win.

Re: Vifam- Now. Today. Thats when I decided. BT rang my bell, I ISO'd Vifam, and went wow. scummy.
What do you conclude from the timeline of my suspicions? Anything? Or was that just a question for the sake of chainsawing your partner? I actually want to know. WHAT DID YOU JUST LEARN?

And Hydra self-reference certainly can be a scumtell. Cerulean alluded to it already-

"look they're trying to fake hydra dissonance since everyone thinks that's town."

And before you say it- I understand that there may actually be real hydra dissonance.... but telling the real from the fake is the name of the game, right? If I think someone is faking a discussion with thier partner... or making too much of a SHOW of it, thats scummy.

This is the solo-equivalent to hydra self reference-

"GOSH! This game is SO HARD!
I totally have NO IDEA who the scum are!!? Hmmm..
Let me think.... who could it be?
omg imso confusednow.
Everytime I think I has it figured out... I dont!
Because I am TOTALLY a member of the uninformed majority!!!"

[Plessiezarus]

Town peta is much more focused early in the day in terms of scumhunting. Scum peta takes a few pages to find something he wants to bite on.

This is something that is fairly consistent throughout his meta.

Hmm. You might have a point here, actually. I checked the links you provided and had a knee-jerk "oh, but minis are different from large themes" reaction at first. I mean, it's definitely easier to be focused quickly in a mini.

However ... looking back, this pattern seems to hold for Abarat too, which I linked to earlier and thought was similar to this game (in Abarat, peta gets an early scum-read on Shinori and he sticks to it and argues for it quite a bit). I fail at meta, maybe . Will need to go and

gratuitously self-reference

talk about this with Zar, I guess. How many (and which) games did you check?

Right now, which of the two [absta and SafetyDance] do you think looks more likely to be scum?

Prob none actually? I mean they're... just

there

.

But if you

had

to pick one of them as scum, which would you pick?

Vifam's 40 actually reads very genuine and townish in retrospect. It seems natural, + don't think if Vifam was actually a cop and white he would've said that. The one black people IIRC from the cops (in s1) are Kima and Freamon. Kima is a girl, so that leaves Freamon. Meh, so it somewhat lowers the odds of him having a scumrole.

That seems like a pretty odd reason to read Vifam as town. Weren't you mocking the people who read Vifam as town as "naive"

after

this post? A long time after? What made you go back and reread those posts?

Ironic or not, I don't really like any of the other hydras. TGAH I have already gone into and they are a strong scum read of mine. But the other two Plessiezarus and Cerulean both feel fake when I read their posts.

TGAH is scummy, yeah. But I'm pretty confident Cerulean is town. Have you read any of their games before (as a hydra or as the individual heads)? Tammy's scum-game seems to be pretty different to her town-game, and her posts this game don't sound like she does as scum to me.

~ Pless

[Plessiezarus]

More importantly.. have I cleared anything up for you? Is something that was unclear now clear? Please tell us your conclusions.

My conclusion is that, as I thought originally, you didn't actually answer the question. Cerulean asked if you thought voting with no reason was scummy. You don't actually address that question, just said that "naming names is the worst kind of first page". Things that are bad or annoying aren't necessarily scummy.

Because me ignoring questions that dont actually help the game (that is, your question about if I answered a different question)- I do that for a reason. To avoid polluting the game with crap-spam.
I also protest the hydra stuff for the same reason....

to avoid polluting the thread with crap

.

You keep insisting that hydra self-reference is a scum tell to

avoid

spamming the thread? Got it .

I ask questions because that's how I get reads on people. People refusing to answer questions doesn't help the game.

Re: Vifam- Now. Today. Thats when I decided. BT rang my bell, I ISO'd Vifam, and went wow. scummy.
What do you conclude from the timeline of my suspicions? Anything? Or was that just a question for the sake of chainsawing your partner?

What about Vifam's ISO is scummy, exactly?

And Hydra self-reference certainly can be a scumtell. Cerulean alluded to it already-

"look they're trying to fake hydra dissonance since everyone thinks that's town."

And before you say it- I understand that there may actually be real hydra dissonance.... but telling the real from the fake is the name of the game, right?

This is a ridiculous non-sequitur. Of course

fake

hydra dissonance is a scum-tell. But that doesn't mean any and all sign of hydra self-referencing is a scum-tell, which is what you've (repeatedly) claimed.

~ Pless

[SafetyDance]

So you read the highlighted bit and tell me how you can interpret that as anything but me saying its anti-town?

i'm interpreting it as you being scum voting someone for being annoying and making a big fat stink about it

So you're misinterpreting it to suit your pre-conceived read? Noted.

Safety Dance and SAD are new scumreads. The SAD one is a bit weak though.

so vote safetydance, he's still voting SAD when SAD is clearly contributing and playing the game and isn't RPing as much, and is just trying to justify his crap vote instead of moving forward and saying anything meaningful

Like you are? Notice the RP stuff has stopped only recent, after I was defending my position on it.

You want me to move forward? Fine.

Vote: petapan

Because out of all the opportunism and weak reasoning yours take the cake.

[camn]

Cerulean asked if you thought voting with no reason was scummy.

Ok.. I am taking a break from this conversation after this, because it is not fruitful, and it bores me.... but this was not the real question.. and it was

also

not

something I ever claimed, nor voted anyone for in this game. Do you actually understand that? Because if you are going to pick at details, it would be better if you were precise about things.

In fact- I agree with you... and if you would actually read the thread you would see that. RVS votes without even the semblance of a reason- they suck. They deserve

my

RVS vote, but they dont actually make anyone scum. Which I know, you know, Cerulean knows, and Cerulean KNOWS that I know, which is what prompted the question- "what are you (camn) doing?".
I answered it, and Cerulean was apparently satisfied with the answer... and then you jump in like a hippo asking if I answered it as a desperate attempt to attack me for SOMETHING since I voted for you. I'm onto you.

And now, I apologize to everyone, I have wasted my 30 minutes worth of free mafia time this weekend talking about NOTHING.
I will not return to this topic, for the sake of the game. And please.. dont let me break my rule again: dont argue with scum.

[SafetyDance]

if I check his post history will I find him acting like this in other games? I don't think so.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23748

You are...?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

A game on an alt, as a replacement, in the middle of discussions which ended in a scum win? That's not indicative as anti-town?

so vote safetydance, he's still voting SAD when SAD is clearly contributing and playing the game and isn't RPing as much, and is just trying to justify his crap vote instead of moving forward and saying anything meaningful

I don't know dude, I thought Safety's first two posts were really bad but I just read his recent posting and I'm getting the same vibes I got from Nostedeus - basically, that he's just incompetent and not really scummy. I don't think him trying to push a policy-type lynch on Arthur and justifying it is really that bad given his inexperience and how much negative attention he drew from it earlier. Plus, I thought the way he lashed out at TML in #304 with the whole "don't pigeonhole me" type stuff was pretty genuine and townish. I haven't talked to Tammy about him yet though (I think she might still be scumreading him?) and I do agree that he does need to involve himself a little more in scumhunting than self-defense at this stage.

Look, I'm not available as much as all you guys. I'd love to get on and cherry pick a random player and tunnel them for a day chasing shadows but I don't have the time. I'm not going to throw off a post with a bunch of names and 'scum' or 'town' next to them. I find that weak, and it would be.

I come back and find I have to defend myself against a vote and post I made

eight hours

into the game. Sorry if I'm a little distracted?

I think that anyone looking at this from a scumhunting perspective already understands this, but in case anyone doesn't (Plezzie apparently can't):

Anyone attacking SAD for RPing isn't alignment indicative (although I think it may be indicative of a lack of sense of humour, but I digress). Anyone attacking SAD for RPing as their main attack, voting him, claiming he's scummy for doing so, or claiming that there is nothing better to be doing when we're 17 pages in IS acting scummy. That's grasping at straws and trying to form a case on anything they can find while plenty of real scummy behaviours are happening.


This may be OMGUS but I think he's been trying to drift under the radar, so I'd be into a Plessie wagon if it forms; SafetyDance is still worth pursuing for the moment though.

Also I have a townread on Arthur because he's probably been scumhunting the most strongly here. If you think I avoid confrontations with strong players as scum I point you to Micro 78.

Main attack? bullshit. You've neither processed or read any of my defence.

Claimed as scummy? You've clearly, not read any of my other posts properly.

Claiming there's nothing better to do? Wrong again, absolutely no claim like that. We were not 17 pages in, we were 5 (i think), barely half a day into the game. I was (and am) defending that post(s) because it was called upon. Should I not try to defend myself? Are you in a rush to lynch?

i think it is a bad move given inexperience because that's what inexperience scum does - they whinge about people being

anti-town

and try to push based on that because they have difficulty calling people actually scummy

the first time you asked it i didn't have a read. at the time of him replacing out, I read him and leaned scum because while him getting bored and frustrated with the game is pretty much just him being vifam, i know he prefers being town to being scum, and he didn't really come off with many solid opinions where looking at him in homestuck he had a few early on that he gave some reasoning for and i didn't see a similarity here

that said i haven't read anything that BT is posted and do not plan to for a while

I never pushed the vote, I defended my reasoning for voting. More misinterpreting.

That last sentence - you openly state you're ignoring a person's posts. That's not scummy, how?

[SafetyDance]

Okay so I am caught up. Liking the SafetyDance vote mostly because of his posturing and dismissive tone when it comes to a lot of the pressure. Also he brings up winning the recent vig4all? I don't really like that at all. I know Zach played in that game so when he wakes up I'll ask him about it, but right now, blegh.

I'm finding SD's posts pretty genuine; it's pretty mental to characterise his stuff as just being about SAD's RP, I'm finding players who are doing that to be latching on to this growing bandwagon. The stuff about SD's posturing is pretty decent though, and the 'I am so good at mafia look at my vig game" comment seemed weird to me, I'm probably going to hipster this wagon

for now

too though.

That was a comment aimed at someone bagging out the way I play, despite me having only 3 damn posts. Why shouldn't I be proud of winning something? It wasn't even remotely anything like figjam, fuck, it barely registers compared to half the shit flying around here.

[Nostredeus]

Vote: McStab

[TheGreatestAmericanHero]

unvote;
Vote: Jason

I'll address stuff tomorrow. Work/Daughter's birthday this week/etc.

[McStab]

Vote: McStab

Totally town-motivated posting and not OMGUS or opportunist scum/sarcasm


@BT: I didn't forget about Nost, but SafetyDance is an acceptable lynch to me and that wagon has legs. When Nost was sitting at three and SD at 5, I decided to go for the more viable wagon. I'm more down for a Nostredeus wagon than SafetyDance even, but getting the exact lynch I want in a game of 19 players is unrealistic and counterproductive. I'll be the most enthusiastic for a Nost wagon out of anyone should his wagon become viable again.

Someone (I think Benmage) asked me about Peta. I think Peta's town, but I had hesitated to put him into any category prior to the last few pages; I think peta's one of the harder players for me to read. His recent posting has led me to think he's town.

[McStab]

Also a SafetyDance-Nost scumteam works well too, so that's totally plausible and given their individual scumminess I think that's a decent possibility.

[Cerulean]

FoS: McStab