The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[petapan]

That last sentence - you openly state you're ignoring a person's posts. That's not scummy, how?

ah yes, scum often openly admit to not reading posts because that helps them achieve their goal, of lynching the town

retard

also this game is insufferably wallposty

[camn]

FoS: McStab

You can do better than that. Jason is town.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 1, Votecount 20

Shadoweh (1) - Baby Spice
JasonT1981 (4) - Ser Arthur Dayne, Cerulean, BT, TheGreatestAmericanHero

SafetyDance (6) - ChannelDelibird, absta101, petapan, Deasvail, McStab, sottyrulez

The Mini-Librarian (1) - Shadoweh
petapan (3) - Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, SafetyDance
McStab (3) - Plessiezarus, camn, Nostredeus

Not voting (1):

JasonT1981

• With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 6th of February at 5:30pm GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-02-06 13:30:28)
  
• Baby Spice, sottyrulez, Nostredeus and JasonT1981 are V/la.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

#2manywords

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Right now, which of the two [absta and SafetyDance] do you think looks more likely to be scum?

Prob none actually? I mean they're... just

there

.

But if you

had

to pick one of them as scum, which would you pick?

None right now? I don't see how this is useful?

Vifam's 40 actually reads very genuine and townish in retrospect. It seems natural, + don't think if Vifam was actually a cop and white he would've said that. The one black people IIRC from the cops (in s1) are Kima and Freamon. Kima is a girl, so that leaves Freamon. Meh, so it somewhat lowers the odds of him having a scumrole.

That seems like a pretty odd reason to read Vifam as town. Weren't you mocking the people who read Vifam as town as "naive"

after

this post? A long time after? What made you go back and reread those posts?

When I went and re-looked at Jason's "gambit". Also, you have to learn to distinguish the genuine Vifam posts on one of his many tangents.

[Shadoweh]

Ironic or not, I don't really like any of the other hydras. TGAH I have already gone into and they are a strong scum read of mine. But the other two Plessiezarus and Cerulean both feel fake when I read their posts. It's more of a gut feeling too right now, I will have to recheck ISOs but something is bubbling there. I'm pretty sure I read Cerulean defending Plees from Camn too which makes me urk. But I will look back again later.

~Sotty

So you have a scum read on Cerulean because they might have defended Plessie, who you have a scum read on because
I remember that Zach has a meta of phoning it in on scum games because he hates them. Incidentally, Cerulean asked where Zach was and now you think they are fake for poor reasons. You cited irl as why he's not posting but in my experience IRL excuses doubly come into play when you're scum and really just don't want to post. Do you think TGAH is scummier then SafetyDance and do you really think that a derp thing like 'i won ebanowoof' is something scum would say and expect to get away with?

(this is highly hypocritical right now seeing as irl is keeping me from posting alot but I'm trying to get this out there)

Cerulean: Unfortunately BT is one of the people I'm pretty bad at reading. I'm biased because he's acting like he doesn't know me or something =.= And keeps saying I'm obviously bad without context when he couldd have at least said 'is not posting' which would have been fair criticism.

The entire SafetyDance wagon is made of eh people. That sure is encouraging me not to go near it. Looking at actual popular choices since I don't have enough non-sleepy time for case making right now and the librarian has gotten zero attention.. both sotty and absta aren't wagons and I hate you all. My hangup with McStab involves absta, but it would help clear up that direction for me. I really don't have a read on either Jason and petapan. I think I will procrastinate and change vote tomorrow (for real this time I swear)

[petapan]

what is your actual read on safetydance, though, irrespective of anyone voting him

[ChannelDelibird]

Lynching your suspects' preferred target tells you nearly as much about them as it does the dead guy, Shadoweh, so not convinced by you dismissing it like that.

I think petapan's town.

More this afternoon, just checking in now.

[DeasVail]

Regarding SafetyDance:

I didn't think his vote for SAD originally was that big a deal, but after failing to achieve the intended goal (I think?) of getting SAD to stop roleplaying, and getting negative attention for his vote, he doesn't unvote for the longest time. The pressure vote has become useless, everyone's telling you to stop. Why not just move on if he doesn't actually want to lynch him? Because he's scum that doesn't want to be seen as backtracking under pressure? Possibly.

There's also the fact that there was content beneath SAD's roleplaying, and the first reasonably sized paragraph in 304 talks about SAD being a problem in later days, which I really feel is just scum trying too hard to justify their vote, and the whole thing about it being brought up as a 'reason' later I don't really understand. I think this would only be a problem from the PoV of scum? However, I'm not sure I understand completely.

As I'm typing this though, I'm getting the niggling feeling that I'm actually attacking a town player, and in the same post you have the following two quotes:

Oh, and whoever it was that claimed its scummy because of jumping on someone who already had a vote? Damn, you're going to have you work cut out with all that scummy play every time someone gets more than two votes.

[...]

I value observing and reading as much as I do typing. In a large game, with a lot of unfamiliar names, with limited time at the moment, with egos walling each other, yeah I'm not going to bring up anything unless it really sticks out.

And I'm not sure whether such an obvious inconsistency would even come from scum.

So if anyone thinks they have a good reason for SafetyDance being town, I'd like to hear it.

~~

Now, onto McStab:

His Nostredeus opinion is unpopular enough that I think he'd at least want to consider the townreads on him and put more effort into working his alignment out, but there is really no attempt shown in his ISO and his Nostredeus read just feels as if it's always going to be there no matter what. So, basically, I don't think it's town scumhunting. I think this is from scum.

There would be the possibility of him being so sure of his read that he chooses as town not to pay much attention to conflicting opinions or future Nostredeus posts (and to be fair this is backed up by the desire to lynch that I thought was overeager), but he's not voting for Nostredeus (and I may be generalising here, but I think the kind of player that's willing to compromise would be the kind of player to also reconsider their reads and compromising probably doesn't indicate a great deal of confidence in the first place) and there's also no real appeal at all to the town to read Nostredeus as scum.

As I'm typing this I'm feeling better about McStab than SafetyDance, so:

Unvote: SafetyDance

Vote: McStab

~~

American Hero: Why do you think sotty would defend their buddy Jason so hard?

BT: Why hasn't sotty's confidence in Jason town affected your read of him?

[BT]

Since I know you and Shadoweh play off-site, what's your impression of her meta and what exactly do you feel is off about her here?

We're pretty fucking horrible at reading each other but at first I felt like she was a little too "in your face" in #97 among other posts (abusing meta?). Her content is also visibly lacking even though her D1 in a recent game was just as shallow so that's giving me doubts now. I see she replied to this later, so, uh, the "bad" part was in reference to your play.

Why is pless scum and why are they together?

Please, PLEASE read the thread before you ask questions like this.
I dont have anything to elaborate on my reasons for thinking Pless is scum..and I think I have actually been quite clear for a Day-1 case in a large.
As far as the connection? Read the thread and we can talk about it.

You've been "clear" about it by summarizing one of their wallposts with a bunch of words without delving into anything. Which is why I want you to go over your case in other words.

this is scummy.

SD is actually pretty solid, people should back off of that wagon.

Vifam was scummy in general, and so is his replacement. Also note the hypocrisy of asking me 'why' while delivering absolutely nothing in the way of 'why'.

Hypocrisy x3

It wasn't hypocrisy because I DID explain that SD read. It's the first part of that line you quoted.

I think you're mostly being stubborn here. It'd be nice if you could comply to the above request so I can get a better read on you.

THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.
just spill it.
Its like if I said:
"Whoa.. I just had a crazy thought about Jason.... Im going to run it by my mother to see if it is logically viable right quick. Be back in a week."
Not useful to the game.
Either spill it.. or shut up about it and just tell us when after you have two-head-approval. Hydra self-reference is

not useful

.. and although I have townread on YOUR SLOT, I am starting to think it is a scumtell in general.

You're being stubborn about this, too. It's not a scumtell, town and scum hydras do this all the time. Sure, it's unhelpful, but commenting on every occurence is even more unhelpful.

I feel like this is going to be a big post if I don't split it so, uh, stay tuned.

(By the way most of the "wallposts" itg could be split up to a bunch of other posts and it'd be similar to the spam in mafiastuck. Tammy's the only one talking in walls, everything else is a bunch of one-liners and is perfectly readable.)

[BT]

(I know, "ragh, READ THE THREAD", but ... isn't it easier to just answer a plain question than it is to make a huge fuss about having already answered it - and refuse to give any link or post number to reference where that answer was? Why make this so difficult?)

Seriously camn you can not be thinking this is scum. Unless you're scum but ehhhh probably not.

Hydra self-reference isn't a scum-tell. It's

clearly

not. Hydras make references to their multiple heads all the time, as both alignments. If you find hydras annoying or whatever, good for you -- but you signed up for a game which multiple hydras had pre-\inned for. You could have guessed that those hydras would behave as most hydras do and make reference to each head individually like this. Given that, it's a bit tedious that you feel the urge to keep shouting about this topic. Nobody's forcing you to play with hydras, and hydras aren't going to change the way they play simply because you insist it's a scum-tell.

Seriously camn. (^5)

My God.

I'm beginning to convince myself that you're intentionally being dense. That & this:

Day 1, Votecount 19

McStab (2) - Plessiezarus, camn

You probably are scum. And if you're not I'd be happy if you could prove me wrong by listening to 2 of my 3 posts so far telling me to look around. Because holy shit.

[BT]

EBWOP: telling you to look around

[BT]

@BT: I didn't forget about Nost, but SafetyDance is an acceptable lynch to me and that wagon has legs. When Nost was sitting at three and SD at 5, I decided to go for the more viable wagon. I'm more down for a Nostredeus wagon than SafetyDance even, but getting the exact lynch I want in a game of 19 players is unrealistic and counterproductive. I'll be the most enthusiastic for a Nost wagon out of anyone should his wagon become viable again.

That's all nice and dandy, but you didn't say anything when you switched (nor did you say anything until I asked) and you're not saying anything about Nost's recent play which everyone seems to think is town.

This is a cool wagon. I might switch if Jason doesn't work out.

[BT]

So if anyone thinks they have a good reason for SafetyDance being town, I'd like to hear it.

He seemed legitimately ticked off by the RP & the wagon on him.

BT: Why hasn't sotty's confidence in Jason town affected your read of him?

Because he's mostly alone on that front. If there was a strongly-reading town player telling me that, or a consensus, then yeah, sure. Nothing like that is happening (the opposite, in fact) and I even said I don't like the rest of his reads so that certainly doesn't help.

[TheGreatestAmericanHero]

American Hero: Why do you think sotty would defend their buddy Jason so hard?

I don’t know. It could be a small scum team, Jason could be a scum PR, or a few other reasons that I can’t think of right now. That doesn’t negate the point that they –are- defending Jason. Nor are they touching the main issue of why Jason is scum. Instead they are labeling Jason as town due to his gambit and tunneling on Vifam.

Sotty, would you respond to 304 and give your thoughts on that and how it affects your read on Jason? Would you also address Jason’s scumread on Dayne?

I’m going to catch up with everything, hopefully, before I head out to work today. If there is anything that people would specifically like me to address please let me know.

[sottyrulez]

Ironic or not, I don't really like any of the other hydras. TGAH I have already gone into and they are a strong scum read of mine. But the other two Plessiezarus and Cerulean both feel fake when I read their posts. It's more of a gut feeling too right now, I will have to recheck ISOs but something is bubbling there. I'm pretty sure I read Cerulean defending Plees from Camn too which makes me urk. But I will look back again later.

~Sotty

So you have a scum read on Cerulean because they might have defended Plessie, who you have a scum read on because
I remember that Zach has a meta of phoning it in on scum games because he hates them. Incidentally, Cerulean asked where Zach was and now you think they are fake for poor reasons. You cited irl as why he's not posting but in my experience IRL excuses doubly come into play when you're scum and really just don't want to post. Do you think TGAH is scummier then SafetyDance and do you really think that a derp thing like 'i won ebanowoof' is something scum would say and expect to get away with?

(this is highly hypocritical right now seeing as irl is keeping me from posting alot but I'm trying to get this out there)

You're free to think what you want of course, but I just got done with probably one of the worst weeks of my life in a long time, and a mafia game wasn't exactly something I had high on the list of things I cared about.

Cerulean pushing on it feels more townish to me actually.

Sotty can explain her rationale on suspicions, while I'll just say that as of page 13ish or so that I'm most suspicious of SafetyDance's play. (I haven't gotten to the safetydance on ebanowoof or whatever it is you're mentioning here, but I'll get back to it once I catch up.)

[camn]

BT- I dont really understand your post, or your questions?

Truthfully? I think Plezzie is doing a pretty good job of defending themselves, and I am softening my opinion on them. I think it is interesting that you are defending them as much as you are, but Im going to file that away for future reference. I'm not interested in restating my posts from last week right now.
In re: your 'questions'/insults- I really am not sure what you are looking for... and I'm also not interested in talking about hydras any more.
I certainly AM stubborn, but I try not to be.
Some times.

[sottyrulez]

Gah I forgot peta voted you... his vote sucks/vifs blew.

At least there is balance.


Poked my head into some Vifam games, and this looks like scumfam. TownFam posts content and not do many crappy one liners.

Can you show your work here? (Preferably citing a source.)

[petapan]

He seemed legitimately ticked off by the RP & the wagon on him.

how does this relate to his alignment in this game

[sottyrulez]

Jason is still town. I have known the guy for 8 years just about, played mafia with him on and off the last three or four years? I forget. But Zach and myself are pretty great when it comes to reading the Jason slot and we both feel Jason Town right now. He does dumb things like tunnel on the wrong people (vifam) all the time as town. There are only two people I am happy in just straight up reading and that's Zach and Jason. So yeah, that's where I'm at with that. If any of you Jason voters want to show me something in his meta to provoe me wrong then go ahead. Right now I'm just not seeing it.

Him attacking "the wrong people" is not even remotely the issue we have with him. It's the fact that he's attacking Arthur and Vifam for their playstyles rather than anything alignment indicative and there's just an overall lack of substance coming from him (#122 still being the most egregious example). A lot of his posts read like they just exist to make him seem like he's contributing when he's really not. Also, just telling us to trust you isn't going to do much when you're not doing much to highlight the difference between his town play and his scum play. What's the difference between the two and how exactly is he playing like his town self? (For what it's worth, Tammy told me she feels like he's playing more like in TM 2012 Closed Normal where they were scum buddies than in Harry Potter. Tammy can probably elaborate on this better when she comes back, though.)

Yeah, your complaints about his play pretty much hit all the markers that indicate he's town. He's notoriously bad with reads and arguments as town. It's actually when he's scum that he will come across more level headed and seem to be making more reasonable arguments. It's precisely because when he's scum he's more interested in trying to fit in vs when he's town and actually interested in finding scum that he tries so hard that he tries to make square pegs fit into circular holes.

American Hero: Why do you think sotty would defend their buddy Jason so hard?

I don’t know. It could be a small scum team, Jason could be a scum PR, or a few other reasons that I can’t think of right now. That doesn’t negate the point that they –are- defending Jason. Nor are they touching the main issue of why Jason is scum. Instead they are labeling Jason as town due to his gambit and tunneling on Vifam.

Sotty, would you respond to 304 and give your thoughts on that and how it affects your read on Jason? Would you also address Jason’s scumread on Dayne?

I’m going to catch up with everything, hopefully, before I head out to work today. If there is anything that people would specifically like me to address please let me know.

Unless you're going to make an argument that SafteyDance necessarily has a similar meta to Jason, I don't see how 304 should affect my read on Jason at all. (Jason has a pretty distinctive town playstyle consisting of things I would find scummy out of almost any other player.)

What do you want me to say about his scumread on Dayne? I don't agree with it.

[sottyrulez]

Follow up @ response to Cerulean. I am going to just admit that I need to read Jason's scum game from team mafia, because you know... he was scum in that game so I wasn't particularly all that interested in it for that reason.

[Plessiezarus]

TGAH

-- according to 125 / 141, both your heads have (had?) a town-read on Dayne. How and why did you come to this read?

I mean, obviously I agree that Dayne's RP is a terrible reason to suspect him. But, as I think I've said already, it doesn't follow at all that Dayne is town, so I wonder if either of you had some other reason to think this?

From the same posts: rofl had a town-read on Jason, while Konowa had a scum-read. Presumably, since you're now voting Jason, rofl was persuaded out of his town-read. Can (either of) you say why?

absta

-- what are your current

actual reads

on SAD and petapan?

(You call SAD "slightly scummy" and his post "really fake" in 430, but then you let him talk you out of town-reading Jason in 436.

You call peta "prob scum" in 291, call him "town" in 432 and accuse him of "bs noise" in 437.)

But if you

had

to pick one of [absta and SafetyDance] as scum, which would you pick?

None right now? I don't see how this is useful?

I just don't really understand why you replied to TML's suggestion that absta was looking scummier than SafetyDance (which he made in 390) if you don't have anything relevant to say about either of them.

~ Pless

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I just don't really understand why you replied to TML's suggestion that absta was looking scummier than SafetyDance (which he made in 390) if you don't have anything relevant to say about either of them.

Well I meant if we should PL anyone is should prob be SD...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

A game on an alt, as a replacement, in the middle of discussions which ended in a scum win? That's not indicative as anti-town?

Read what you wrote again when you asked your question.

[Benmage]

OOOPh, Under the weather guys... good thing I didn't go skiing. Trying to do some reading, but concentration is rough.

Post #351 by SAD makes some sense. I was town-reading Jason for his gambit but this changed my mind.

That difficult to read paragraph that only repeats whats already been stated about it...

<--- Hey look I'm in rehab.

Don't understand this comment. Please explain. Are you disagreeing with TML's claim that absta looks worse than SafetyDance, or are you suggesting there's no hope of SafetyDance ever "contributing something good"?

The latter.

So what's your thought on SDance?

Your wall posts comment on really trivial things and lack real content, so it looks like you're trying to comment n a bunch of stuff to look busy and engaged.

^Remind me to iso Jay again...can't think right now.

I like his push on Peta and might be down for a vote there if it wasn't for Post 378 which is an excellent point about Safety.

Maybe I got the blinders up, but nothing looks special about Peta's obvious comments regarding Sdance.