League of Legends (Old)

[Cyberbob]

Never underestimate the damage sunfire can do as an AP mid.
If you're in the middle of teamfights as like Dianna or Swain, it can put some serious hurt.

Definitely worth buying if you're against high AD comps.

i want to die

[lil g]

i want to die

I agree with this 100%

[MrZepher]

i want to die

I agree with this 100%

[Bella]

Never underestimate the

damage sunfire can do as an AP mid

power of the Scout's Code.

FTFY :p

[Vi]

This thread will be experiencing a Cyberbob outage for a while.

[quadz08]

*waves*

League of Legends Mafia is (finally) in the final stages of revising / finalizing the setup. I'm in charge of this stage of setup design, and singer and I will be co-modding the game. It is a Large Theme, with PRs and Mechanics and All Those Kinds Of Things.

PM me to pre-/in, even if you already PMed singer way back when, because that list is long gone on an old computer or something.

<3

[MrZepher]

lol CYA BRO.

Also, league of legends mafia appeals greatly to my current interests...

[mykonian]

Never underestimate the damage sunfire can do as an AP mid.
If you're in the middle of teamfights as like Dianna or Swain, it can put some serious hurt.

Definitely worth buying if you're against high AD comps.

You know what hurts more as Swain? Becoming invunerable for a little time, and getting armor.

Like, I know sunfire got an indirect buff coming into S3, it's gotten better... but it still cannot compare to zonya's. In fact, it can only can compare if you are building for midgame. It's buffed, but it's still not the most effective defensive option (by far). Every other item works better at that. You build it to beat someone early.

[MrZepher]

Well yeah but if you're getting shit on then the health and mitigation are pretty awesome since you're still doing damage that's effected by your penetration items.
(Sunfire does magic damage so Magic Pen helps)

Zhonyas is a really expensive item to rush unfortunately.
Thankfully that's getting fixed by a NOT garbage item.

[PJ.]

I'd be in for league mafia, possibly maybe, probably flake.

Also, how many bans does it take to get permanently booted from discussion? Cyberbob is on like.. chance 300. Quagmire too for that matter, but free cody.

[Brandi]

lulu free week is so cruel

[lil g]

Ranked queues are disabled for the new League system rolling out.. now.
Fingers crossed that the speedpony did enough work to place me out of bronze

[dramonic]

@Quadz: Pre-in still
@Myko: You do know unlike Fiddle you dont keep doing damage with R during Zhonya yes? I mean, Sunfire is still a silly choice, but just in case.

EDIT: woo leagues?

[Glork]

Also, how many bans does it take to get permanently booted from discussion? Cyberbob is on like.. chance 300. Quagmire too for that matter, but free cody.

The MafiaScum Discussion Moderators have long believed that giving people repeated tiny-slaps-on-the-wrist is an effective way to create a better community and reduce general asshattery around the site.

Long have I waited to see if they will see the light, but I am by no means holding my breath.

[mykonian]

Well yeah but if you're getting shit on then the health and mitigation are pretty awesome since you're still doing damage that's effected by your penetration items.
(Sunfire does magic damage so Magic Pen helps)

Zhonyas is a really expensive item to rush unfortunately.
Thankfully that's getting fixed by a NOT garbage item.

Being cheap has it's disadvantages. Meaning you could get a good item earlier, but it won't be good for long.

Further, getting shat on in midlane is not solved in any way by building armor. Or building health. Nearly every mid (of any quality) can waveclear like a boss. If you lose your lane the problem isn't that you'll die over and over, it's easy enough to stay out of fights. It's that your friends are going to face your opponent as he can roam easily. You are still, even if you are losing, looking to be a threat.

This is actually for the two you name (diana and swain) even more so then for others. Diana is an assassin. Nobody cares if she can survive while throwing out spells. She is supposed to q onto a squishy, throw a combo, and make it a 5v4. In no way will sunfire ever do anything for you. Swain, who looks like that great aoe damage dealer (with his ult) actually has two flat out single target spells. Your ult isn't your main damage in the fight, it's the cherry on top. It means more then any other mage, you are allowed to get close to bruisers and tanks while getting the squishy behind that. Sunfire is a tank item for tanks who'd like to make their midgame stronger vs bruisers. It's nothing for a burst caster (of which you named two), who are looking to kill things. Sunfire doesn't kill, even if it deals a little damage.

@Quadz: Pre-in still
@Myko: You do know unlike Fiddle you dont keep doing damage with R during Zhonya yes? I mean, Sunfire is still a silly choice, but just in case.

EDIT: woo leagues?

On all but a few (and those are really obvious), zonyas is a tool for a mage to dive in, spend their cooldowns, and use it then to get those cooldowns back and maybe eat some of the retaliation damage. Diana is an example of this. You could more then get away with building zonya's on Diana.

Swain is one of the more obvious. Yes, his R is a toggle, and yes keeping it up through a zonya's active burns through your mana fast, but it still works. Toggles and zonya's are cool.



Beyond that (and I think I'm stealing this reasoning of shanba, so I hope I'm remembering it properly), there's the simple thing. Stat's multiply with each other. If you are behind, the items you buy are worth less. If you have some AP already, rabadons is cooler. As is void staff. Etc. There are a couple of items which beyond that depend on skill more then other items. Rabadons takes no skill at all. You build it, it makes you deal more damage. Easy. Shurelya's or Zonya's do. If you outplay your opponent with those, even if you are behind, forcing the right fight with shurelyas or making the correct initiation getting half their CC while invunerable can turn the game around. Even if you are behind, items like those give you the opportunity to outplay your opponent and get back.

So yes, if you are losing midlane, and looking for armor, zonya's really is the answer.

[mykonian]

@Quadz: Pre-in still
@Myko: You do know unlike Fiddle you dont keep doing damage with R during Zhonya yes? I mean, Sunfire is still a silly choice, but just in case.

EDIT: woo leagues?

Oh, and second thing, it's not an item you build all the time on fiddles, I think I wrote that a little back. You do it in the same situation (since fiddles in many aspects plays like a burst caster). When you are behind and you need to have an item that allows you to outplay your opponents. It's not as great an item if you are already winning.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I once played against a xerath that built a Soulstealer when he was behind "because you get stacks on assists and it can help you come back".

[mykonian]

he's right.

if you are behind in a way that you can't win reasonably anymore, you could hope to get enough stacks on a lucky fight where things go your way to get back into the game. Like, 99% of the times you'll lose anyway. But you were losing anyway. If you didn't build mejai's, the opponents could perhaps lose an unlucky fight and still be impossible to stop. Double or nothing, basically.

[dramonic]

I build Zhonya on Swain occasionallly, that's not what I was getting at. I just thought you were under the impression your R keeps dealing damage while you're inv.

@Myko: ... I'm going to assume that last one was a joke.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

he's right.

if you are behind in a way that you can't win reasonably anymore, you could hope to get enough stacks on a lucky fight where things go your way to get back into the game. Like, 99% of the times you'll lose anyway. But you were losing anyway. If you didn't build mejai's, the opponents could perhaps lose an unlucky fight and still be impossible to stop. Double or nothing, basically.

This should never be a solution. If you're that far behind, your best chance at pulling out a victory is to try and snowball someone else on your team who is ahead/even with their lane and then turtle until you can add something to a teamfight, should it be assassinating a high priority target or even just locking them down.

Building a Mejai's isn't the answer to being behind. Building Tankier probably is.

[quadz08]

Don't fight Myko on this one. He's wrong but will never believe it.

[mykonian]

he's right.

if you are behind in a way that you can't win reasonably anymore, you could hope to get enough stacks on a lucky fight where things go your way to get back into the game. Like, 99% of the times you'll lose anyway. But you were losing anyway. If you didn't build mejai's, the opponents could perhaps lose an unlucky fight and still be impossible to stop. Double or nothing, basically.

This should never be a solution. If you're that far behind, your best chance at pulling out a victory is to try and snowball someone else on your team who is ahead/even with their lane and then turtle until you can add something to a teamfight, should it be assassinating a high priority target or even just locking them down.

Building a Mejai's isn't the answer to being behind. Building Tankier probably is.

Building tankier isn't your job. It doesn't work on a burst caster.

And no, it's not a joke. It's common sense. The further you are behind the larger risks you can afford (because you simply have less to lose). Building mejai's while ahead is absolutely moronic. You are taking a huge risk to lose the game while it's in your hands already if you just manage to not fuck up. The only other reason you'd build a mejai's is because there actually is no risk because you know you can't die and you'll get assists easily (and yes, that situation can exist)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Don't fight Myko on this one. He's wrong but will never believe it.

After seeing his response, I'm taking your advice on this one.

[mykonian]

Don't fight Myko on this one. He's wrong but will never believe it.

it's a simple mathematical thing. There has to be a point in the game where you are losing so badly that taking the large risk of building mejai's is going to be the correct move. That doesn't mean you'll suddenly win, but maybe you'll steal one game which you should have lost.

[dramonic]

The further you are behind the larger risks you can afford (because you simply have less to lose).

I very much disagree that if you're behind you can take larger risks, so that's really as far as we'll get here.

EDIT: If you're losing so bad that Mejai becomes mathematically viable, the enemy mid probably has 5 levels on your entire team.