Gay Mafia II: RIDE THE LIGHTNING (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

Unless you're counting zoraster the Hated Townie.

[DrippingGoofball]

As for your arguments for Trollie being scum: no reason for Trollie-scum to admit to using it on vollkan, no bloody reason whatsoever for Trollie-scum to have used it on vollkan N4 to bloody begin with. The argument that he must be scum because the things he's done are just stupid is a bad argument.

Hey. He didn't own up to it on the day it happened.

I had to push hard today... until process of elimination was beginning to look like it was heading right in his direction.

I believe his vote-steal is ONE-SHOT.

I believe he has other scum powers that he is concealing.

[Magua]

There was no PoE on him. There was no suspicion by anyone that he was at all related to vollkan losing his ability, and there was at least one person (that is, me) saying that vollkan was quite likely simply lying about it. Especially if Trollie was scum with a one-shot-vote-steal power that he inexplicably used N4, and then even more inexplicably used on someone who hadn't voted since D1, would've been so much easier to just not say anything at all.

Yeah, I'm aware that with a hated townie today is essentially lylo. That's why I'm convinced Trollie will die tonight, regardless of his alignment, because with zoraster in play, if Trollie is *not* lying about his ability (which, to be fair, I don't think he is) then any scumteam that doesn't include him is outright fucked if they don't kill him.

Simple fact of the matter is that "I'll be active D1, and then completely disappear D2 and beyond" vollkan is 3,000x more likely to be Mafia than Trollie, and Trollie-as-SK would not, IMO, claim the vote steal on vollkan.

[dramonic]

I can't believe magua of all people is being this thick and retarded .-.
if trollie is scum, lynching him takes a dangerous element out of the game. Evem if the sk/mafia would want to kill him, we have no reason to assume theyll succeed and take him out for us. Thats assuming the sk/scum does think he's a threat. Considering the quality of trollie's play so far, if I were antitown id keep him alive to have him feed me the win.

There is zero town motivation to keep him alive "because scum probably needs to kill him". Dead scum is dead scum.

EDIT: If you seriously think the other has any reason to feel threatened by trollie...

[Magua]

Yes, dram, because if I have a reputation for anything it's for being thick and retarded.

Since you're not calling me scum, I'm going to assume you think I'm town. So, by extension, you should think that I believe what I'm saying.

Your theory -- Trollie's not a threat and can be kept alive -- only works if you think his power was one-shot. Which then leads to the question, "WHY WOULD SCUM CLAIM A CONFIRMABLE POWER THAT THEY CAN'T CONFIRM UNDER ZERO PRESSURE WITH NO ONE LOOKING IN THEIR DIRECTION?"

But, fine. That'll question will get a reply of "wifom lulz" and then ignored. Ok, then. Let's play a game.

You think Trollie is scum? Tell me if you think he's Mafia or SK.

[dramonic]

I have no evidence to support wether his power is one-shot or infinite. Im saying whatever form of scum he's not will just shoot him at the very last moment, say, beyond the point of no return for town. You think that trollie knows who his enemy is, I think he couldnt shoot his way out of a paperbag. If he's scum with infinite steal, he can instalynch zor tomorrow, get shot during the night and the other scum wins. If he's town, he'll string a series of mislynch and feed one scum or the other the win. If his power is one-shot, he cant rush the zor lynch, but he's still a threat.

Considering the power, mafia is more likely if multishot, sk is more likely if one-shot.

Also I called you scum like, 3 posts ago. Doesnt mean I dont wanna see if you'll backpedal on your suicide stance

[vollkan]

Zoidberg: 53
Magua: 53
DGB: 60

All else at 50.

Needless to say, none of those suspicions is especially strong

I'm going to assume higher numbers are scummier. If so, fabulously well done on, at *Day 6*, standing up and saying, "Guiz, I've got no firm scumreads."

I mean, if you were town, I'd expect you to be doing shit, like trying to figure out who scum is. Thank you for making it so much easier for me by not doing anything like that.

Thing is, when I kept up with things (D1), it was fine. But Mafia is a game, especially in Large Games, where falling behind just gets compounded. I've fallen behind badly - I know in broad, blobby terms what's happened, but either there are no scumtells that I consider major (possible) or, more likely, things have just slipped by me.

Short of it is that I probably haven't kept track nearly as well as I should have, and I'm really doubtful I will have the time to do so. If that's lynchworthy, so be it, but for the sake of not doing this later on in the game, I'd suggest doing it now.

[TheTrollie]

As for your arguments for Trollie being scum: no reason for Trollie-scum to admit to using it on vollkan, no bloody reason whatsoever for Trollie-scum to have used it on vollkan N4 to bloody begin with. The argument that he must be scum because the things he's done are just stupid is a bad argument.

Hey. He didn't own up to it on the day it happened.

I had to push hard today... until process of elimination was beginning to look like it was heading right in his direction.

I believe his vote-steal is ONE-SHOT.

I believe he has other scum powers that he is concealing.

are you FUCKING RETARDED? I AM TELLING YOU IT IS NOT ONE SHOT, WANNA SEE ME GET SOMEONE LYNCHED TODAY BY USING IT? I HAVE KAWAIIS VOTE RIGHT NOW YOU FUCKING LUNATIC.

I am TOWN AS FUCK and you idiots are getting distracted from the scumchase

[Magua]

I have no evidence to support wether his power is one-shot or infinite. Im saying whatever form of scum he's not will just shoot him at the very last moment, say, beyond the point of no return for town. You think that trollie knows who his enemy is, I think he couldnt shoot his way out of a paperbag. If he's scum with infinite steal, he can instalynch zor tomorrow, get shot during the night and the other scum wins. If he's town, he'll string a series of mislynch and feed one scum or the other the win. If his power is one-shot, he cant rush the zor lynch, but he's still a threat.

Considering the power, mafia is more likely if multishot, sk is more likely if one-shot.

If his power is legit, and he's alive tomorrow, he's immune to being lynched (because he could always instalynch zoraster before he himself is lynched). So, extending that, the pool for lynching does not include him (and presumably does not include zor). That PoE kills scum. That's why scum will need to shoot him, because he will 100% not be lynchable, which regardless of *anything else* makes the other scum more lynchable.

Also I called you scum like, 3 posts ago. Doesnt mean I dont wanna see if you'll backpedal on your suicide stance

So you did. You just don't act like you mean it. I mean, if you really think I'm scum, and you really think that Trollie is scum, then for the *exact reasons I'm giving* I should be all for lynching Trollie. But I'm not. And you're not making any effort to figure out why, so, conversely, I don't think you believe both Trollie/I are scum. Either you're scum lying about opinions or you're just floating opinions to reaction test that you don't actually believe.

Thing is, when I kept up with things (D1), it was fine. But Mafia is a game, especially in Large Games, where falling behind just gets compounded. I've fallen behind badly - I know in broad, blobby terms what's happened, but either there are no scumtells that I consider major (possible) or, more likely, things have just slipped by me.

Short of it is that I probably haven't kept track nearly as well as I should have, and I'm really doubtful I will have the time to do so. If that's lynchworthy, so be it, but for the sake of not doing this later on in the game, I'd suggest doing it now.

So you were able to keep up fine when the game was at its largest and fastest, and now that it's at its slowest (73 posts in 6 days, or 12 posts a day, the vast majority of which are a single paragraph or less), you can't keep up?

More concerning is that most of what's happened has been pretty obvious, yet ignored by you, eg, your suspicions of DGB date back to before the SPB lynch, but you don't even make mention of it. You don't comment on Trollie. You neither try to convince me I'm wrong about you, or try to convince people I'm scum. You're all, "I dunno guiz just lynch me maf is so hard"

are you FUCKING RETARDED? I AM TELLING YOU IT IS NOT ONE SHOT, WANNA SEE ME GET SOMEONE LYNCHED TODAY BY USING IT? I HAVE KAWAIIS VOTE RIGHT NOW YOU FUCKING LUNATIC.

Trollie, do you have mod confirmation that you actually have two votes today?

[dramonic]

So you did. You just don't act like you mean it. I mean, if you really think I'm scum, and you really think that Trollie is scum, then for the *exact reasons I'm giving* I should be all for lynching Trollie. But I'm not. And you're not making any effort to figure out why, so, conversely, I don't think you believe both Trollie/I are scum. Either you're scum lying about opinions or you're just floating opinions to reaction test that you don't actually believe.

Actually, based on your theory, you don't want to lynch trollie today, you want to shoot him tonight. Why go an extra day with the town when you can get a mislynch and an extra night kill?

[Magua]

Let me get this straight.

You think that I, as scum, instead of lynching Trollie today and shooting whoever the fuck I want to at Night, want to derail that lynch (thus opening myself up to the possibility of being lynched)...and then be forced to shoot him at Night?

That makes absolutely no sense, and I do not believe you are thinking these things through before you type them.

[DrippingGoofball]

Dram and I must be the exact same brand of stupid then, because I thought exactly the same thing.

[Magua]

Then maybe you can explain to me how it makes sense to you.

[DrippingGoofball]

My reasoning is basic.

I'm town, I see scum, I want it dead NOW.

Not tomorrow, and not counting on X-kills.

I'm dumb that way.

You have a whole big plan that Trollie should stay alive tonight to be X-killed by the other faction, and leave the Hated Townie alive. How did the Hated Townie not get factored into your scheme? You're doing all these calculations, and you're so sure of them, but never mind a Hated Townie in end game?

[Magua]

So, again, you think that Magua-scum sees Trollie, knows that Trollie must die for Magua-scum to win, and then goes on to not lynch him, forcing Magua-scum to NK him instead?

Because that's what dramonic says he's thinking, and you said you were thinking the same thing. Yet I feel I can get a reasonably coherent explanation from you, unlike from him.

---

For zoraster, I'd prefer to lynch zoraster over someone who I wasn't >80% certain was scum. I'm not > 80% certain that Trollie is scum, so I'd rather lynch zoraster than Trollie. Mostly because I think it still ends with Trollie being NK'ed, whereas zoraster is never going to get NK'ed.

[TheTrollie]

Trollie, do you have mod confirmation that you actually have two votes today?

yes, and so that you all can start ignoring DGB when she starts claiming she has some divine knowledge that I am lying, I would be happy to prove it to you if we find a lynch target i can get behind.

[Magua]

Lynch preference (strong to weak): vollkan >> zoraster >> iecerint > dramonic

[dramonic]

Magua, do you seriously think there is a sliver of a chance you are getting lynched today? <_<

[Iecerint]

I don't think tactical-lynching zora makes much sense because AFAICT it's only a move that makes sense if Trollie is scum (i.e., because he's only quicklynchable by TrollieScum, unless the SK and mafia team up). The presence of 2 kills means that lynching hatedZora takes us from maybe-lylo to definitely-lylo.

[dramonic]

In that scenario trollie is still the superior lynch

[Magua]

Magua, do you seriously think there is a sliver of a chance you are getting lynched today? <_<

Pretty certain I'm not; would bitterly hate to be disappointed. But it's still a possibility that wouldn't occur if Trollie was lynched, so I thought I'd mention it.

I mean, seriously, the only possibilities are:

1) I'm town and I believe what I say about Trollie, or
2) I'm scum and I believe what I say about Trollie, or
3) I'm scum and I believe that Trollie is the double-voting other scum and don't want to lynch him, opening me up to being lynched *and* opening me up to being cross-killed *and* forcing me to kill him tonight, all instead of just saying "U guiz r so smart" and jumping on.

I don't think tactical-lynching zora makes much sense because AFAICT it's only a move that makes sense if Trollie is scum (i.e., because he's only quicklynchable by TrollieScum, unless the SK and mafia team up). The presence of 2 kills means that lynching hatedZora takes us from maybe-lylo to definitely-lylo.

If there are no scum deaths this Day or this Night, then tomorrow is lylo regardless of any other factors.

The problem is that if there are no scum deaths this Day or this Night, and zoraster is still alive, town loses even if it lynches right (or its a race to see who posts first, depending on the mod). This is completely unrelated to Trollie.

Assume it is 6:1:1.

Lynch town, two town are killed: 3:1:1.

Now assume that we lynch scum, and then the remaining scum shoots: 2:1. Except that the scum can then immediately vote zoraster to lynch him (and some mods may allow the scum to pre-send this in, "Vote zoraster at the start of the Day" or whatnot, depending). If not, then the only way for town to win now is for the town to post to show zoraster he's not voting, vote the other guy, and for zoraster to hammer before the scum gets online. Not the best.

Hence my comment that if I'm not > 80% that someone is scum, I'd rather lynch zoraster.

In that scenario trollie is still the superior lynch

Unless Trollie is town, etc. Granted, my view of this is that I am, in fact, 100% that Trollie is going to die tonight. So I see lynching him at as a waste.

[DrippingGoofball]

Trollie has yet to vote anyone, isn't that strange?

[Iecerint]

You're right -- I was thinking about tomorrow with the doublevote and forgetting to also think about D8. My bad.

[dramonic]

The scenario iece suggested has trillie scum, theres no "unless he's town" option in it :p
I understand the zoraster issue, let me think bout it when im not phoneposting

[Magua]

Trollie has yet to vote anyone, isn't that strange?

Depends.

Trollie's last vote is January 20th, over two weeks ago.

Of course, zoraster's last vote was also January 20th.

But then, of course, there's vollkan, who hasn't voted anyone since January 5th, *over a month ago*.

I see it more as a commentary on the sad state of the game.

But, while on the subject, DGB, does Trollie's claim that he has a confirmable double vote change your opinion about anything at all?