League of Legends (Old)

[Ankamius]

Kog has been my favorite AD for a long time and this is not going to change.

[Venmar]

Kog with AD scaling abilities instead of AP scaling would be lulz

[lil g]

Closing in on buying another champion as well, I would like to offer my fellow league happy friends the chance to sway me towards a champion to purchase. We are down to the Filthy Five, some of the lowest of the low, awful trashcan champs. I present without further ado:

Sejuani: Literally tits on a bull. Milkage questionable. Possible remake on the way.
Viktor: Ult is good, underplayed and underestimated? Russian roleplaying is hot. Very janky playstyle.
Brand: Ever want to have your targeted ult shoot off across the screen to auto-lock on wraiths? Well now you can!
Trundle: The best at nothing, and the worst at several things. I've heard his pillar referred to as many vile names.
Renekton: Already decided he will be the last I ever buy if I do indeed buy him. Renekton is actually That Bad.

[quadz08]

Viktor es number 1

[AngryPidgeon]

Buy Renekton. Hes actually not bad and is pretty easy to learn.

[Venmar]

Seriously?

Trundle is freaking amazing. I main him as my jungle. ( not joking )

[Brandi]

Any champ can be good in the right hands. Overall Trundle is pretty weak.

[lil g]

Trundle is seriously a bouncing bag of shit. He's actually in a class of his own because he is not a tank (no peel, questionable displacement, no intiation) and certainly not a carry because his scaling is garbage. This makes him a "low damage bruiser". Why would you pick Trundle over any other champion who can clear the jungle? His best case scenario is running around long enough to use one skill on a carry and one skill on a tank, hoping this didn't take the entire deciding time of the teamfight, and then using those stolen stats to some kind of effect in a fight his team has surely already won or lost by now?

Pillaring people is funny but trundle is not an exceptional duelist, so you have cut off the only escape of someone who can probably kill you.
Don't even get me started on pillars blocking off the friendly team cause it is a bad anivia wall on steroids.

If we are being generous we can say "the meta doesn't favor Trundle", but I don't think anyone would try to paint him as the jungle savior of your elo. Have you met Hecarim? Look, it's a tank with 2 displacement moves that don't affect your own team and who doesn't need the perfect storm of teamfight positioning to operate at 100% effectiveness. Hec is an extreme example since he is so goddamned good at everything. I'll lob you a softball comparison: try to make Trundle look like a favorable pick to Shyvana. Should be easier, but it's ... not.

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

Which five should I buy next?

[mykonian]

I'm somewhat confused by the fact that trundle apparently isn't a good duelist.

[DeathRowKitty]

Yeah..and the fact that he apparently has no peel and the fact that it apparently takes him the entire length of a teamfight to use a 700 range skill on the enemy tank

[lil g]

Hecarim, the Jungle Savior, Patriarch of the stevens family
Darius, the Dunklord Ragebringer
KZ, the BUGMAN WHYYY permabanned midlaner from hell
TariQ, the "I hate supporting so let's make everyone in this lane hate it too"
Elise, the OP toplaner you can surely milk for some freelo before she gets actually nerfed.

[lil g]

Oh and anyone who wants to prove me wrong is welcome to take The Trundle Challenge: play 5 ranked games with him and post the results.
I bet you won't, because Trundle fucking sucks.

[Brandi]

Even if someone won 5 ranked games with trundle, it wouldn't mean much if they were low elo to begin with. :S

[Patrick]

I play Trundle from time to time, I don't think he's that good right now, though for pretty much entirely different reasons to the ones lil g gave.

His pillar has many many uses, he's one of the best duelists in the game, and his scaling in terms of steroids is actually pretty good. In games/maps against bruisers he does well, but against ad carries and other squishies he's prone to being kited, and once he finally reaches the fed ad carry, he doesn't have the burst to kill them before he's finished off himself. I think it would be fair to say that the meta doesn't favour him atm.

[lil g]

Even if someone won 5 ranked games with trundle, it wouldn't mean much if they were low elo to begin with. :S

I actually disagree with this. "Low elo" is relative to the person playing the game, and in my experience, the lower you get, the more it's a 1v9 "you against the world" situation. In such a war torn world, who will be your one "pillar" of strength, your beacon of hope, your candle to stave off the darkness? It's gonna be a hard carry or a straight tank, not some assbag like Trundle. If you can win a low elo game with a bad champ, it's probably more of a feat because you will get absolutely nothing out of your teammates. In a gold or better game, you can assume you are going to get competent play out of your teammates, which would allow you to slack off a little and not pick the most tryhard champion of the bunch.

In any case, whatever elo you are at you are there for a combination of reasons, but it's fair to say that it should be reasonably close to your skill level unless you 1) only play one position at that elo, 2) got carried up past your ability level, or 3) purposefully dove down. So the TRUNDLE CHALLENGE should apply equally to a 2100 player, a 1500 player, and a 500 player. It's judging the champion's effectiveness compared to the other available champions at your ability level. I doubt anyone will risk 5 games of their hard-fought elo on a champion they know to be sub-standard, but you never know!

[Ankamius]

I think Trundle had the single best steroid skill (W) for quite a while, but I have a nagging feeling that I've seen one of the newer passive steroids being at least pretty close. I think Draven's is pretty close too.

[Brandi]

Even if someone won 5 ranked games with trundle, it wouldn't mean much if they were low elo to begin with. :S

I actually disagree with this. "Low elo" is relative to the person playing the game, and in my experience, the lower you get, the more it's a 1v9 "you against the world" situation. In such a war torn world, who will be your one "pillar" of strength, your beacon of hope, your candle to stave off the darkness? It's gonna be a hard carry or a straight tank, not some assbag like Trundle. If you can win a low elo game with a bad champ, it's probably more of a feat because you will get absolutely nothing out of your teammates. In a gold or better game, you can assume you are going to get competent play out of your teammates, which would allow you to slack off a little and not pick the most tryhard champion of the bunch.

I meant more along the lines of, a really high elo player just playing in low elo. Not someone who actually

deserves

low elo playing in low elo. I am saying, anyone can carry with anything if they are good enough and their opponents are bad enough.

[Venmar]

Trundle, the misunderstood and underappreciated jungler.

He's good, and unlike some of the borderline or straight up OP junglers you mentioned lil g, he takes some skill to play. Not to mention Trundle has amazing jungle sustain, he just lacks those unavoidable ganks that Hecarim and Nocturne for example have.

[AngryPidgeon]

Trundle is really situational. Do not play him against Corki/Ez/Cait/Kass.

Do play him against: Gangplank, Irelia, Udyr, etc.

[Ankamius]

It's all based on relative ELO, no matter if you're low or high.

High ELO players go weird setups and troll builds all the time, but they still do fine. This is because they have the skill required to play at that ELO, skills that apply even with the weirder champions. Low ELO is basically the same way, but the overall skill level is much lower.

This experiment of taking 5 games and recording the results really won't ever prove or disprove anything. Even that sample size is too small, as there are a lot of factors that would get in the way of getting valid results. For all you know, they could lose all 5 games because the enemy team hard-counters him every single time and his team has no synergy with him. All that would prove is that Trundle has counters and champions he doesn't mesh well with. Every champion has that.

[dramonic]

Sej works horribly well against baddies ._.

[lil g]

The "Trundle Challenge" is going to be the new meta for calling bullshit on someone's questionable tactics posted in thread.
Smell bullshit? Right, play 5 ranked games with it and post the results.

Sure, the sample size is too small to definitely prove or disprove anything. What it will prove is that something is so stupid and weak that not even the online champions of conjecture will risk 5 games of their precious elo on it.

[Ankamius]

To be honest, why would anyone do it regardless? It doesn't prove or disprove anything so it's a waste of time.

[esuriospiritus]

Soooooooooooooooooo I found Pie's long lost brother today...

Spoiler: .