League of Legends (Old)

[xRECKONERx]

She really is right now, I think she has the highest burst in the game at level 6.

[Glork]

She just seems to have come out of nowhere. Even throughout preseason I think I've seen Syndra in like four games (out of ones I've either played our spectated).

[MrZepher]

Ruby crystal based items are leagues more gold efficient than Giants belt based items
just so you're aware.
Locket is OP.

I think AP carries still have their place. Just too many garbage players that don't know how to not die.

[pickemgenius]

So I definitely heard the words "Syndra's too good" during the TSM-CLG match.

Syndra has always been good.

She's just tricky to play to full potential.

Still does loads of damage even if you just herp derp around.


Also a lot of fun to play.

[MrZepher]

She has really strong laning and really strong lategame, strong AOE CC, awesome burst potential, and strong playmaking ability.
Idk why anybody ever thought she was garbage.

[Brandi]

possibly useful

Not really, considering all of this was done pre- S3.

[Patrick]

She felt really clunky and awkward to play when she came out. I haven't tried her after her buffs, but I think people just hung onto their first impressions of her for ages.

[Bub Bidderskins]

So I just queued up into ranked as 4th pick. When everything else was called, I picked support, because I'm a nice guy. Then we get into game and my team is terrible. I mean god-awful. TF is a massive feeder who ports in with blue card, MF doesn't know how to position, Xin Zhao never ganks, and Darius gets stomped in lane.

But then, their orianna dc's. It takes us ages to win the game (and we strait up lost at least one 4v5 teamfight). This reminded me of all the times people complain about afkers on their team, and automatic losses they have to go through, and yet they never look at all the automatic wins they've gotten for the same reason. In that game, we really deserved to lose, but we didn't because of an afker. Remember these times if you have an afker, and take a long perspective. Because after many games, you will have slightly more automatic wins than automatic losses. Whenever you get that automatic loss, just shrug it off. It's just one game. When you get that automatic win, don't think it's because you're great. Look at the mistakes you made and how you can improve, and understand that you did NOT deserve to win that game.

[Glork]

Okay. But Syndra's win rates aren't that good, she hasn't shown up in any major tournament or top-level event until tonight, and even though everyone is going "nah Syndra's always been good" I never see Scummers play her.

Like graham said. 5 consecutive ranked games. Go. Don't just disagree with me saying "oh she's great" when not a shred of empirical evidence supports that statement.

[dramonic]

She has really strong laning and really strong lategame, strong AOE CC, awesome burst potential, and strong playmaking ability.
Idk why anybody ever thought she was garbage.

Her lategame is really not that strong. Just like any burst caster, health and mr mitigate her damage greatly.
She can still 100-0 an adc before they can do anything though.


EDIT: Syndra is my most played champ...

[lil g]

Syndra was unbearably bad at launch, probably the worst one of the past year.
She has a great ult, decent waveclear, is fairly spammy in teamfights, and the most unreliable stun in the business. Of the ap mage mids, you could do a lot worse than Syndra. She's gotten a bunch of number adjustments and QOL fixes since launch. Still a shitty day to be a glass cannon mage in S3. I don't personally like her but I can see the appeal since she does have very strong mage dueling. You are still working way too hard for too little payoff on Syndra. Not every champ has to be Hecarim levels of good, and Syndra is higher on the viability list than Trundle ever will be.

Also mathing out some Lulu numbers, maxing Q first on Lulu to be the king of your lane, AD reds hit a lot harder than mpen even with pix's magic damage. Which is a shame, because the mpen technically scale a little bit into the rest of the game while my AD is pretty useless after lvl 5. Still working on the masteries to see if there's any way to squeak in more damage. Before anyone yells at me (not that anyone plays Lulu besides Brrrrrandi) the opportunity cost for those Armor reds is pretty low. The hybrid pen reds are looking prettty juicy though. Tankulu is a pretty decent lane vs Leona/Taric. I still love Jenna but man.. can't really find the lane to play her in these days.

[chamber]

Syndra has a pretty high skill floor for proficiency. Explains why you don't see so many people play her and a meh win rate.

[xRECKONERx]

Riot seems to be creating a meta in which glass cannon mages are completely not viable. I dislike it.

[Brandi]

Also mathing out some Lulu numbers, maxing Q first on Lulu to be the king of your lane,

If you are supporting, please don't ever do this ever.

Her shield does more base damage at all levels, and has more utility overall.
Max Q last, always.

[pickemgenius]

I wouldn't say the payoff for Syndra is 'little'

+3.2ap with one cycle of spells on a single target.

Presuming she has 7 balls level 18, the base on her ult would be 1260 add 754.5 from a single cycle of spells so that is 2014.5 damage without ratios on a single target.

Let's presume she has 300 ap. So lets add another 960 damage. So 2974.5 damage pre resistances to just a single target.

That's quite good.

Of course this is in an ideal situation, which isn't likely.

[pickemgenius]

Also mathing out some Lulu numbers, maxing Q first on Lulu to be the king of your lane,

If you are supporting, please don't ever do this ever.

Please max Q if the lane allows it.

[Brandi]

No, it'd dumb, and not worth it. If the lane allows it, you'll get more damage and utility from E.
Experience: Over 100 games with Lulu. I get the best results consistently and win my lane harder from this method.

[pickemgenius]

No, it'd dumb, and not worth it. If the lane allows it, you'll get more damage and utility from E.
Experience: Over 100 games with Lulu. I get the best results consistently and win my lane harder from this method.

more damage?

more utility?

ok..

Experience: ad carry that wants you to max q if the lane allows it so I can have two seconds of 80% slow, with a low cd, low mana good base stat ability.

[Brandi]

"if the lane allows it"
elaborate please?

because if the lane allows it I can max consume on NuNu and still win if we are are just that good, doesn't mean it's not a dumb choice.

I've never had an AD carry that wanted me to max Q first on Lulu, either.
How about this:
A shield/damage burst that gives your AD carry extra damage on his auto-attacks that will likely save your life and his/hers in almost any situation.
That 2 second slow is nothing compared to the speed boost you can get from W. And guess what? You still get the slow from Q, the speed up from W, and the SHIELD+DAMAGE boost from E.
If you leave the shield unleveled you are are more susceptible to tower dives and are less likely to win trades.

[JDodge]

No, it'd dumb, and not worth it. If the lane allows it, you'll get more damage and utility from E.
Experience: Over 100 games with Lulu. I get the best results consistently and win my lane harder from this method.

more damage?

more utility?

ok..

Experience: ad carry that wants you to max q if the lane allows it so I can have two seconds of 80% slow, with a low cd, low mana good base stat ability.

I agree.

Experience: Jungler who's currently filling in as support for an ad carry that wants 2 sec 80% slow, who also wants an ability with a low cd/cost and high enough base damages.

Let's look at the numbers on damage.

If we look at damage per second, at level 9 having maxed Q you will get 37.143 dps if spammed on cooldown vs 28 dps on E. Let's break that down further by tying it to mana cost - if you take the damage per point of mana and then break that down to DPS as a final number of damage efficiency, than your E will give you .28 damage per mana per second (dpmps) whereas your Q will give you .46 dpmps. That's not even counting the extra shots your AD carry will get off in the time of the slow.

[Kise]

I think AP carries still have their place. Just too many garbage players that don't know how to not die.

You have to know when to pick them. Burst mages are better off against ranged and the few melee who don't have scaling MR and/or defensive kits. You have a much better chance 100-0'ing someone who goes on with 30 MR for most/all of the game than you do those who get 52.2 come lategame. Sustain/DoT/Liandry mages are much more effective against bruisers.

It doesn't make sense to be a squishy burst champion against high hp targets. It was hard enough killing tanks in season 2. No reason to think you can easily nuke the tanky dps types this season.

On another note, bruiser kha'zix is actually a thing that works, apparently.

[Brandi]

Eh, in my experience... at level 9, you would not be using your Q or E for damage, and if you are- it's going to be minimal and ineffective. Past the early laning phase, The shield should be used for just that- shielding and the Q should be used for slowing.

And I can't agree that you'd win trades with it more effectively.

Slows don't stop the enemy adc from attacking. It's not like that every single time you slow an enemy they are going to run away. They have a support too, and their own damage. They can be slowed and stand in place if they want. A stronger shield on your ADC, however, will soak up more damage from your enemy- AND provide more damage for your adc to dish out. Who has more attack speed than you. Who will in turn put out more DPS with the little extra damage from PIX. (Who's added damage late game actually got buffed but that's irrelevant- still nice though)


I'd be happy to 2v2 anyone (Me support Lulu with an ADC, (whoever) support lulu with an ADC) to do a test laning phase to show what I mean.

[lil g]

These "skillcap" champs have a big issue right now because there are a couple champs who are very strong and very simple, so much so that you can be pants-on-head retarded and still win your lane (oh hi garen whats up buddy). While Syndra is waiting for the stars to align in mid, some idiot is mashing his face on the keyboard and winning toplane.

On the other hand, playing simple champs is good because it gives you less decisions to make with less opportunity cost attached to your actions, and it lets you focus much more on map awareness and positioning. You can make sure that the fewer decisions you make are better decisions. You don't have to worry about "the plays" or working on your highlight reel with a champ like Lee, play someone simple and focus on the map and I bet your game will improve. Also if you play a champ without an inbuilt escape, you will stop your stupid dives because "uh i thought i could get out after" and just plain not stupidly dive. Champs to try for this: Garen Udyr Nunu Caitlyn Olaf Shyvana Warwick.

[lil g]

^Go figure, support comment sets off a firestorm. Lulu maxes Q for an aggressive lane and E for a defensive lane, with W as the one point hard CC wonder. Everybody's right! The high elo sheepherders are definitely spouting to max Q first though, as always it's a YMMV situation and if you aren't playing with a high elo ADC, he's going to need the shield way more. I'm sure that's what PEG meant by if the lane allows it.

[Brandi]

Nawww, I'm more aggressive with my E. I harass with it safely early on and can get my ADC first blood before the 4 minute mark 9/10 because of it. Also without having to accidentally ruin the minion wave with the would be higher damage Q. The Q for me is the one point wonder. In my experience, I feel the utility of Max W> Max Q. That elongated silence has saved so many baron/dragon steals it's ridiculous.

And the high elo's are at a constant debate about it. For instance, Elementz has always said max E first on Lulu, even before her Q got nerfed.