Gay Mafia II: RIDE THE LIGHTNING (Game Over)

[zoraster]

here's another question: I've already claimed a fairly significant chunk of my role throughout the course of the game. What do you think DGB thinks I'm REALLY trying to accomplish by claiming last? What about you, dram? What would be the benefit to me if I were scum in this situation to not just claiming I am what I've already stated? If I'm the last scum, I would want to lynch the opposing scum or vigilante, of course, but I wouldn't REALLY care because it's so unlikely that the other scum is going to shoot me given my claimed hated townie status.

It just makes no sense. I'm not even sure why I'm entertaining this other than I want you to claim, dram. Or at least after Iec does.

[DrippingGoofball]

Dram thinks he caught you in a lie.

I think you're whole story is pretty dodgy. I think you're a Hated Scumbag and that your "confirmation" comes from the JOAT that you recruited.

You claim first, then dram.

SOWWWY

[zoraster]

how did my confirmation come from the JOAT that i recruited?

Dram didn't catch me in a lie.

And as I said, there is zero chance I am claiming before dram. And that's because lynching me may be the best thing for the town, so there is zero leverage for you. The only way I don't want to be lynched is if we can with reasonable possibility identify a town member.

Let me say that again to you: There is zero chance I will claim before dram because

you have no power to make me do so

.

[zoraster]

No, I got a result PM stating that zor is town. I don't have a cop role.

Is what confirms me. Om nom is not a JOAT, he was a vengeful lover. Unless you think that this game is bastard, Om nom is town and would have no reason to lie about me being town. In fact, he believed to his core that I was scum until the new day, pushing really really hard for my lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

how did my confirmation come from the JOAT that i recruited?

Because you didn't make use of this power Night 1 when the individual chances of any player being NK'd is at its lowest.

I think you used that power Night 2 because you didn't actually have it. The recruited JOAT had it, and used it to "confirm" you.

Because you were "surprised" that the power confirmed YOU to Om, and not another player, and your explanations were contrived.

And then Om (who suspected you a lot before you you "confirmed" yourself to him in particular) gets killed the next night so everyone knows he's town. Om was not a threatening player at all to scum, why was he killed? To "confirm" your story.

[DrippingGoofball]

No, I got a result PM stating that zor is town. I don't have a cop role.

Is what confirms me. Om nom is not a JOAT, he was a vengeful lover. Unless you think that this game is bastard, Om nom is town and would have no reason to lie about me being town. In fact, he believed to his core that I was scum until the new day, pushing really really hard for my lynch.

The recruited JOAT sent a misleading message on Night 2 after you recruited him.

[DrippingGoofball]

Dram didn't catch me in a lie.

I believe that he did.

He didn't claim, but he said he caught you in a lie.

You on the other hand, are pretending that there is a reason why you should go last. If you are a weak Hated Mafiate, and you pretended to have a power that belonged to your dead JOAT scumbuddy, I believe you have no other power.

You are merely scheming for dram to show his had before you show yours.

[zoraster]

wait. you think that the JOAT had the power to confirm me to om nom even though I'm scum? I don't even understand how you think that'd make sense. It'd still require bastard moderation, right? As in, the mod is going to basically mod confirm that a scum member is town to a town member?

Om nom got a RESULT PM, he didn't get a "message PM" or whatever it was the JOAT sent. I assume there is a pretty big difference and that Om knows the difference.

You claimed to have gotten a joat message before, right? What did it look like?

[zoraster]

Dram didn't catch me in a lie.

I believe that he did.

He didn't claim, but he said he caught you in a lie.

You on the other hand, are pretending that there is a reason why you should go last. If you are a weak Hated Mafiate, and you pretended to have a power that belonged to your dead JOAT scumbuddy, I believe you have no other power.

You are merely scheming for dram to show his had before you show yours.

To what cause? What would I possibly gain from that?

[DrippingGoofball]

you have no power to make me do so.

Well let's see.

I vote you.

You're at L-1. The other scum comes, hammers you. It's now 3 townies vs. 1 scum at night, and the next day, we're 2 townies vs. 1 scum.

Your scum faction loses no matter what.

[Zoidberg]

Zoid, confirm that ALL you do is fruit vendoring.

Yep

And now, for a teachable moment:

It's too bad that Zoidberg didn't hide his votelessness. He could have put someone at fake L-1, and the scum would hammer, and then Zoid would say, "sorry my vote don't count" and we'd lynch the hammerer for glory.

MESSAGE TO THE DEAD QT: Trollie you should have stolen my vote!

Damn it, wish I'd thought of that.

And I've been quietly running the scumputer in the background. You're the point leader.

267 zoraster
192 Zoidberg
83 Iecerint
33 dramonic

I think we already established like 50 pages ago that your silly numbers are both useless and worthless. Please stop relying on them; they don't work.

Zoidburg

: Is your voteless thing just a today thing or is it for the rest of the game?

Just for today, apparently.

----

My bets are on DGB+dramonic as scum/sk.

[Zoidberg]

DGB: Right before D6 ended you said "Zoidberg is scum but noone believes me".

Now you're tunneling on zoraster. Why the change?

[zoraster]

oh no! You vote for me! I get lynched! Like I've partially advocated already! You've really foiled my plans there, DGB.

Entertain for a moment that I'm town, as is by all logical reasoning the most likely scenario. Do you at least see why I'm saying we would need to lynch town from my perspective?

[DrippingGoofball]

Om nom got a RESULT PM, he didn't get a "message PM" or whatever it was the JOAT sent. I assume there is a pretty big difference and that Om knows the difference.

You claimed to have gotten a joat message before, right? What did it look like?

I won't speculate on whether Om would know the difference. He might not. Your assumption that there would be a BIG difference is just an assumption.

If you want to speculate, maybe the JOAT could fake-confirm another player in his arsenal, and that was the most valuable power he had, and used it on Night 2, after you recruted him..

[Iecerint]

After working it out, I actually believe the only way for town to win, assuming we are in a 3:1:1 situation, is to have both scum kill each other simultaneously. Our odds for this are BEST if we lynch a non-zoraster TOWN today, slightly worse if we lynch a zoraster town today, and worse still if we no lynch.

Where are you getting a difference between lynching zoraTown and otherTown? The only difference I can see there is that zoraTown in 1:1:1 makes it a race to quicklynch zora, and otherTown in 1:1:1 makes otherTown the kingmaker.

The rest makes sense, but it assumes we have no kill-stopping mechanism N7 (and that you are hatedtown, obv). I think we can actually still win if we both lynch scum and correctly identify the remaining scum today. This will put us at 3:1 tomorrow, and caughtScum won't be able to quicklynch zora as zora will still require 2 votes to lynch.

EDIT: So, I'm fine with claiming first, and I had a full-claim typed out here, but I think I'd like to try asking Dram one thing before I post it:

@ Dram

, who did you *target* last night (N6)? Target only. You can refuse to answer if you want, but I want to see what you say.

[zoraster]

Tell you what, I'll make a deal that we can all follow. I claim last (After dram in particular), and I will vote myself to be lynched. you can hammer me. in fact, i'll vote myself in the SAME POST where I full claim.

For our chances of winning, it is less great than lynching a different town member, but it still gives us a chance to win and doesn't run the risk of accidentally lynching a scum person.

pEDIT: Responding to your post in a different post, iec.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: Right before D6 ended you said "Zoidberg is scum but noone believes me".

Now you're tunneling on zoraster. Why the change?

Dram says he caught zoraster in a lie.

Zoraster is refusing to fully claim.

You sent me another dicktext, and you didn't kill me.

All of this.

[Iecerint]

Zora, I think my claim will potentially modulate some of your numbers, so you might want to wait to do the full number-crunching game.

But I may be missing something, so.

[zoraster]

Iec

The difference is that no scum, unless they've convinced themselves I am the other scum, will shoot me. So from each scum's perspective, if I'm alive there's a 50% of killing the other scum (since they know I am not scum and will not shoot me) instead of a 33% chance if we lynch town instead.

[zoraster]

yeah, that's fair. if you claim and it changes it, I'll change my tune on some of this stuff.

[zoraster]

Iec

The difference is that no scum, unless they've convinced themselves I am the other scum, will shoot me. So from each scum's perspective, if I'm alive there's a 50% of killing the other scum (since they know I am not scum and will not shoot me) instead of a 33% chance if we lynch

me instead (since the scum won't know that any of the townies are town or not)

.

fixed in blue.

[Iecerint]

Gotcha, that does make sense.

I think numbers-modulation will still happen. Waiting on dram.

If anyone takes issue with my going first, feel free to voice as much. I get the sense that the main utility of my going near-last is already mitigated a little by softclaims that have already been put down today, though.

[zoraster]

I can't decide if I love a game where town has to be smart enough to lynch a townie in late game or hate it.

[DrippingGoofball]

I can't decide if I love a game where town has to be smart enough to lynch a townie in late game or hate it.

When I first brought up your Hated status yesterday, your reaction was that you didn't want to consider it.

See that's another thing that bugs. You kept in the background the whole game, low-key, and YOU never said, hey guys, I need to be lynched. WHY

[DrippingGoofball]

@ zoraster

You claimed

Hated Townie

, correct?

I read this in the Wiki:

It is debatable whether it is better to not claim Hated Townie. By not claiming you are opening yourself up to getting run up to L-1 and thus unexpectedly lynched; by claiming you are making yourself a policy lynch on the Day before LyLo.

Do you have an opinion?

Sorry, I really have meant to get to this.

An opinion? considered it and rejected.