The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[kuribo]

And before some idiot derps up "Oh, but BT is in your wagon, kuribo"

he's ON the wagon, but he's not really PUSHING the wagon, now is he?

[The Mini-Librarian]

Reminder to self to iso BT and sottyrulez when I get off work today so I can put that interaction into context a bit. Gut says it doesn't look good for BT, but would like to make sure.

Finally got around to this. It actually got me to give a slight town read on BT believe it or not. (at least not want to lynch him today.) His push on Sotty seems very natural to me. It may not be the best push in the world, but it looks town.

more later.

[Cerulean]

Bleh, I don't see the slip. There's not just one way to interpret tht first statement. You can have more scum reads than what the remaining scum you think you have left.

I also don't know why one would argue that they old be trying to make us think there's less than there are to mark us think there's an sk when they've been adamant about there not being an sk, but a vig.

This is just a quick post to say not to expect much from this head this week. I have a few things on top of work going on and an interview to prepare for. I'll be able to keep up with the game, just not all that well, probably. Empire said he'll be posting today so I expect he'll add any thing I might have missed and follow up on my posts from Friday.

[BT]

If this isn't pushing the wagon then what is? I think I'm one of the only people to consistently bring up points against you, and even though benmage and cerulean have said the most they're barely half-hearted about this now. Like, how is this not taking part in your wagon? And why is it not reasonable that your wagon stalled because you're posting a lot of moody uselessness that naturally makes people handwave you altogether? Or did you not notice the difference from before you subbed in and after?

Even then, you say that scum want to keep you alive, so who are they lynching instead? Me?

I don't get your complaints, either. I'm arguing that you claim to be at least trying but there's no indication of that. Go ahead and tell me what you tried doing in the psat few days.

TAMMY: Are you going to at least reply to my posts? I noticed your remark in your SAD post about me not seeming to comment on him despite having a hard time @ mafiastuck, and, well, you're kind of right! I've been mostly resorting to posts like the Jason Gambit Analysis(tm) during D1 and that one rolespec post during D2 to townwave him but when it comes down to it I'm not sure, especially since I think Jason is town now. He's one of my reread targets.

About the slip, I... really don't see any other way of interpreting that. It clearly implies that the entire scumteam is those three slots.

[Cerulean]

Sure bt. Also, I don't mean to be a pain, but can you direct me to what posts you want repsonses for? I'm running out the door and I typically don't do anything with mafia on Sundays but I'll try to when I get back tonight, and it would be easier if i know what im looking for. Empire knows my thought on everything to so he might be able to answer your questions as well.

[BT]

Well, it's this, but I'm not even sure what I want from you now, seeing as it was an awkward sort of post. I guess I want to reason with a townread that guts me as scum? I think more words on my part will do better than this, but considering comparisons to mafiastuck at all, do you still think I'm that different and do you think the difference makes me scum?

[Zar]

I'm actually a bit annoyed as to the distraction the whole speculation on whether I slipped or not has caused. For the one thing it isn't a slip. English isn't my first language and I guess my wording needs clarification.

My response to Zdenek is based on the belief of there being a single scum faction of four. However, what I failed to convey was that I wasn't willing to bet the game on all of the team being among our scumreads because as much as I want to, I don't pressume of having divination skills? :shrug:

At the same time, while i think this is 15:3(1) as opposed to other setup possibilities, the big sign up front doesn't make it implausible that there is a chance of having more than a scum faction in play. While I'm working under my assumed scenario, I consider the possibilities of others.

~.Zar

[Plessiezarus]

I'm actually a bit annoyed as to the distraction the whole speculation on whether I slipped or not has caused. For the one thing it isn't a slip. English isn't my first language and I guess my wording needs clarification.

My response to Zdenek is based on the belief of there being a single scum faction of four. However, what I failed to convey was that I wasn't willing to bet the game on all of the team being among our scumreads because as much as I want to, I don't pressume of having divination skills? :shrug:

At the same time, while i think this is 15:3(1) as opposed to other setup possibilities, the big sign up front doesn't make it implausible that there is a chance of having more than a scum faction in play. While I'm working under my assumed scenario, I consider the possibilities of others.

~.Zar

What the guy in the party hat said.

~.Zar

[BT]

15:(3+1), but you said you didn't think you'd pinned the scumteam in the list of three so one of them is scummy town. By the assumption you're working on there should have been only a group of 2 remaining, which is the route of the confusion I have with this.

Note: I'm soon gone for the rest of the day.

[Benmage]

Overindulgence weekend, give me a little to get my shit straight.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 2, Votecount 26

kuribo (5) - Cerulean, JasonT1981, Benmage, BT, Ser Arthur Dayne

Kise (2) - sottyrulez, The Mini-Librarian
BT (3) - Channeldelibird, camn, kuribo
Ser Arthur Dayne (2) - Deasvail, Plessiezarus

Not voting (4) :

ZONEACE, Kise, Nostredeus, Zdenek

• With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 22nd of February at 00:30am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadlien: (expired on 2013-02-21 20:30:28)
  
• Nostredeus and SAD are V/la. Plessiezarus is V/la

[sottyrulez]

He is in Northern Ireland.

Before you go get pissed Jason, can you brief me on why BT is in your town group? Just a couple of lines would be nice.

~Sotty.

More because I am more sure of others being scum. Your back and forth with BT seemed more like town vs town going back and forth too. I disagree with BT saying your vote was opertunistic, but I just don't see anything overly scummy from BT.

I honestly don't even recall having a read on Viafam before BT stepped in.

Jason, can you explain this then?

Quick post before going to bed, will catch up tomorrow. But Vifam constant one liners and lack of real content really sit wrong with me. I have him marked as scum already but so far seems to be trying to coast through the game doing very little.

Vifam - How is DV fake no matter what? Can you go into a bit more detail please... making empty statements like that is not really good for you right now.

[The Mini-Librarian]

Yo, Kise. Stop taking playing tips from Katsuki and get in here. You are lurking like a mofo and I don't like this.

This setup spec shit is shit and needs to stop. We need to focus on the wagons that are actually doable. Also, why are there stillllll people not voting. :I

[Plessiezarus]

Kise's 1604 is a sufficiently terrible post that I'd probably rather vote for him than Kuribo if the SAD wagon doesn't go through. A week spent reading the game from the beginning and all it does is strengthen his initial half-arsed FoSes? Ugh.

What's going on is that the first post practically says "I'm playing with the assumption that there are 3 scum remaining" while the replies to people

pointing that out

are "no way, 4+1 would be OP", when 3 scum remaining points to 4+1. I'm not even sure if this is a slip or not... I'm generally lost.

Having had a slightly frustrating conversation with Zar about this myself today (in which I tried -- and I think failed -- to explain to him exactly what you're pointing out) I can sympathise with your confusion .

I mean, sure, there is some tension between Zar's guess that the setup is 15:3(1) and his willingness to consider the idea that all three of {CDB,Kise,Kuribo} are scum.

But the thing is,

Zar is not the most logical of thinkers

Zar isn't the sort of player to start off by trying to make some assumptions about how the game is set up and to then proceed on the basis that that assumption is correct. He's prone to second-guessing himself a lot, and this is especially true when it comes to set-up speculation. I think a better paraphrase of his first post is "I'm not willing to rule out the idea there are 3 scum remaining" while his replies should be read as "but I don't think it's likely".

Actually it's weird that they don't give real reads on each other. I don't remember what arhtur thought of bt in mafia stuck but I remember that bt did not trust us much and Arthur is acting quite a bit different here than he was in that game...it seems odd to me that bt really hasn't mentioned him.

SAD definitely mentioned Vifam though (although his reasons for town-reading Vifam were rather foolish and somewhat at odds with his other posts).

(Also, can you quote some specific examples of BT being "oily"? I don't really know what you mean by that.)

--

I'm feeling somewhat frustrated by the number of people who've agreed SAD is suspicious but aren't joining his lynch, also. Maybe instead of us all talking about how it would be nice to vote for him if only his wagon were bigger we could all, I dunno, just vote for him?

~ Pless

[jasonT1981]

He is in Northern Ireland.

Before you go get pissed Jason, can you brief me on why BT is in your town group? Just a couple of lines would be nice.

~Sotty.

More because I am more sure of others being scum. Your back and forth with BT seemed more like town vs town going back and forth too. I disagree with BT saying your vote was opertunistic, but I just don't see anything overly scummy from BT.

I honestly don't even recall having a read on Viafam before BT stepped in.

Jason, can you explain this then?

Quick post before going to bed, will catch up tomorrow. But Vifam constant one liners and lack of real content really sit wrong with me. I have him marked as scum already but so far seems to be trying to coast through the game doing very little.

Vifam - How is DV fake no matter what? Can you go into a bit more detail please... making empty statements like that is not really good for you right now.

Eh fair enough, I forgot about that.. his one liners seemed to be forgotten after a while. More an oversight on my end than anything, Guess I let it slide to the point I put it to the back of my mind and forgot.

Someone asked about my read on Dan last night... I touched on it in one of my spoiler posts, but I did get a thought it could be scum vs scum trying to distance from each other to make each other look town in the event of the other fliping scum (in regards to the Kuribo/Dan thing) and that is why he is in the scum pile more than anything.

[kuribo]

Someone asked about my read on Dan last night... I touched on it in one of my spoiler posts, but I did get a thought it could be scum vs scum trying to distance from each other to make each other look town in the event of the other fliping scum (in regards to the Kuribo/Dan thing) and that is why he is in the scum pile more than anything.

And when I flip town, where does that put your scum vs. scum theory?

[kuribo]

I don't get your complaints, either. I'm arguing that you claim to be at least trying but there's no indication of that. Go ahead and tell me what you tried doing in the psat few days.

* Tried to figure out if Pless scum slipped
* Helped pressure CDB into providing content
* Asked numerous questions of numerous people
* Sat and listened to you morons accuse me of distracting the town every step of the way.

Fine. I'm a distraction, whatever. My play here has sucked. Optimal town play right now is to fucking lynch me and remove the distraction, so get on with it.

[jasonT1981]

Someone asked about my read on Dan last night... I touched on it in one of my spoiler posts, but I did get a thought it could be scum vs scum trying to distance from each other to make each other look town in the event of the other fliping scum (in regards to the Kuribo/Dan thing) and that is why he is in the scum pile more than anything.

And when I flip town, where does that put your scum vs. scum theory?

IF you flip town, and I am sure you won't..... then it makes my theory wrong, plain and simple.

[Cerulean]

(Also, can you quote some specific examples of BT being "oily"? I don't really know what you mean by that.)

Tammy could probably point to specific examples here for what she means by "oily", there are a couple of things that struck me as off about that slot. First off, the slot's interactions with absta feel weird - absta suspects Vifam in #288 for a completely throwaway reason but never follows up on...whatever that is at all. #604 also only seems to exist as a way for him to make superficial conversation with BT. What bugs me more than anything looking over his ISO again is #1350 - here, he comes in from a long absence in the thread to zero in on kuribo (who was being wagoned at the time) and the selection of quotes with analysis attached feels like he's trying to justify his bandwagon vote so it doesn't come off as opportunistic. There are some other things I don't like either, namely, his initial catchups are structured in such a way that seem like he's commenting on stuff in order to make certain people look as bad as possible - but then again, I know other people who do that same sort of thing (off the top of my head, BBmolla did this in Sherlock) so meh. That said, I haven't really delved into his meta as much as I would have liked (he doesn't have a completed scum game here + I can't access shrinemaiden's games for some weird reason).

[Cerulean]

Well, it's this, but I'm not even sure what I want from you now, seeing as it was an awkward sort of post. I guess I want to reason with a townread that guts me as scum? I think more words on my part will do better than this, but considering comparisons to mafiastuck at all, do you still think I'm that different and do you think the difference makes me scum?

I'll just divide up the response into numbers, Tammy can feel free to add to this if she wants:

1) Saying Shadoweh was killed for "being right" doesn't make much sense to me...I know she's a very competent player, but at the same time, I looked over her ISO again and it seems like she suspected a lot of people (or at least impliedly so looking at the way she directed certain things at certain people), so what specifically was she right about? The reason I think the kill points to you specifically is because of your ties to her from offsite (even though she says she can't read you) and the fact that she did seem to suspect you here.

2) Dan's claim seemed townish to me because I don't really see the scum motivation in purporting to "counterclaim" someone on D1 of a large game, even with the slight delay. I think that mentality's far more likely to come from town thinking he's caught scum via his claim, especially if you think the scum team is undermanned since they're going to be thinking about the long game so sticking himself out there as a counterclaim doesn't make sense from a scum PoV that has longevity as a priority.

3) See my post before re: your meta.

[BT]

Midnight post incoming:

Empire: I'm used to Dan doing weird shit so potentially CC'ing as scum doesn't raise any alarm bells at all, considering he was a pretty likely lynch. Fun thing about me killing Shadoweh, and that's what I was getting at in that post by saying "i wouldn't kill Shadoweh" and that it was a useless comment on my part -- I'm definitely not the kind of guy to kill because of ties, but the polar opposite: I wouldn't do it because it'd make people look at me and I wouldn't do it because one of the reasons I have for joining these large games is playing in different environments with people I know. (this is consistent with all of my large games up to now) If it clashes with the wincon then yes, I'd have killed her, but I honestly would have killed you or benmage or plessie or some other universally town and helpful dude. It's not like options were lacking -- on that front I'm as confused as you are on why Shadoweh was killed (and I don't blame you for thinking it's tied to me).

Kuribo: No final reads?

[kuribo]

Kuribo: No final reads?

I've already given my reads, captain literacy.

Every fucking time I post my reads / ask anyone a question half the town starts attacking me for it. It's damn near impossible to scumhunt with people saying, "Oh, whatever, that's not scumhunting, you're scum."

[Cerulean]

I forgot to do this earlier <_<

Unvote, vote: Kise

Got the green light from the other head for this.

[BT]

Kuribo: No final reads?

I've already given my reads, captain literacy.

Every fucking time I post my reads / ask anyone a question half the town starts attacking me for it. It's damn near impossible to scumhunt with people saying, "Oh, whatever, that's not scumhunting, you're scum."

Now you're just being deliberately unhelpful. Would it be so bad to post a quick read list and one sentence for each read?

I forgot to reply to plessie... I guess I'm fine with that explanation? I don't see this going anywhere else and I think you're town otherwise so :pass:.

[kuribo]

BT, I'VE ALREADY GIVEN MY READS

I'M NOT GOING TO FUCKING INVENT MORE THAN WHAT I HAVE JUST TO LET YOU PRETEND TO BE TOWN