The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[sottyrulez]

I'm thinking I don't want a kuribo wagon at all now

Like, I don't think this isn't a Just Now thing that I'll end up waffling over again tommorow, I think I legitimately read kuribo as town now, maybe ~_~

And instinctively I think I'll be voting SAD over Kise unless reread returns SAD as town, but I'll wait with the vote until I do that

Zach there's still that reply thing I'm waiting for

What exactly do you want me to reply to?

[BT]

you said you found some more reasons for me!scum but they don't make much sense

[kuribo]

The fact is, BT acts as if dan said to himself "Hmmm, friendly neighbor, neighborizor, I'll claim here and the town will never know they're two different things!"

This isn't what BT is saying though. He's saying that Dan (as scum) really did think his role was similar to Zdenek's, and "counter-claimed" because he was planning to claim

anyway

and didn't think people would believe both roles could be town.

~ Pless

That argument doesn't seem to make much sense either. You'd have to believe he was perfectly willing to suicide himself on Day 1. A counter-claim becomes a direct 1v1, which Dan would know he'd lose. Even if he thought he'd have to claim later.

BT, unvoting me doesn't make my lynchcock flaccid for you, just so you know. I want your blood.

[BT]

if I recall the state of the lynch correctly at that point he was the Lynch To Be anyway

and I'm not expecting you to unvote, but at least understand that I wasn't spouting nonsense here!

[kuribo]

Couple that with your interactions with us where you strongly argue us scum while saying your gut conflicts with the read, and progress to you backing off more completely as our wagon proves more unpopular, and you have a few more reasons why we think you're scum.

Note also, BT backs down off my wagon once he sees the winds changing direction to himself.

[sottyrulez]

you said you found some more reasons for me!scum but they don't make much sense

I'm saying that your calling our vote of Kise opportunistic is scummy not just for the fact that it wasn't, but for the fact that you came out with an apparent scum read (weak) on that slot anyway. It doesn't make much sense to attack us for that vote if it's putting pressure on a player you think has a decent chance of being scum.

The vote for him wasn't just because he was quiet. BabySpice's play factored in to, and the post I quoted with the vote was done so because he came off as asking for votes (daring us to lynch him.) in that post, a request I am more than happy to oblige.

[sottyrulez]

Also if your read on the slot is weak scum, why do you seem to be opposed to the lynch? Has your read changed? Your suggestion that he gets replaced feels a lot to me like you're more interested in the slot being salvaged than anything else.

[BT]

Couple that with your interactions with us where you strongly argue us scum while saying your gut conflicts with the read, and progress to you backing off more completely as our wagon proves more unpopular, and you have a few more reasons why we think you're scum.

Note also, BT backs down off my wagon once he sees the winds changing direction to himself.

they were doing that for a while

I only decided I was wrong right now

you said you found some more reasons for me!scum but they don't make much sense

I'm saying that your calling our vote of Kise opportunistic is scummy not just for the fact that it wasn't, but for the fact that you came out with an apparent scum read (weak) on that slot anyway. It doesn't make much sense to attack us for that vote if it's putting pressure on a player you think has a decent chance of being scum.

The vote for him wasn't just because he was quiet. BabySpice's play factored in to, and the post I quoted with the vote was done so because he came off as asking for votes (daring us to lynch him.) in that post, a request I am more than happy to oblige.

True? But it's not like I had ~*~a scumread~*~ on kise, it was only a minor gut feeling, so I don't think it's unreasonable that it didn't seem to phase me that much.

And I noticed the "lynch me" post. I think those sort of posts are null (though very anti-town) (i'm treating this kise lynch mostly as lynching the anti-town dude as things stand)

PEdit: It's because it was a minor feeling (again) that far from strong enough for me to say "yeah, there's a decent chance this is gonna flip scum". I'm against it because it isn't a good lynch.

[Cerulean]

True? But it's not like I had ~*~a scumread~*~ on kise, it was only a minor gut feeling, so I don't think it's unreasonable that it didn't seem to phase me that much.

And I noticed the "lynch me" post. I think those sort of posts are null (though very anti-town) (i'm treating this kise lynch mostly as lynching the anti-town dude as things stand)

PEdit: It's because it was a minor feeling (again) that far from strong enough for me to say "yeah, there's a decent chance this is gonna flip scum". I'm against it because it isn't a good lynch.

Our vote on Kise is far from being because we thinks he's the anti-town dude. There are several people I could stick my vote on if I wanted to go for that. Take a look at this: This is Kise as town in a game we recently played together. Notice the difference? And I'm not even the biggest meta person out there, but when someone has played in a game with me and they've demonstrated an ability to be very thoughtful about people's alignments and replaces into another game and basically gives shoddy fluff, there's a problem. And it doesn't have anything to do with anti-town, it's that he hasn't provided a reason to think he's town and I know he can. He's lurking here and not providing content at all, therefore there's a really good chance he's scum.

As far as your "no information" bs...that's exactly what it is. I get irked when I hear people use that argument past day one. I can see where day one you might not want to lynch someone who hasn't provided content, but day 2 when we have 70 pages of information and two scum flips? Hell no. I'm going to lynch who I think has a good chance of being scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

First SAD attacks DV, saying that DV is either scum or "bad at explaining his thoughts". Then he justifies his focus on Jason on the grounds that DV has "showed [his] thought process and I least I can keep up with what and how they're thinking". And the second post comes with 30 minutes of the first.

...What? He can both be bad at explaining his thoughts but at the same time SHOW he has thoughts and I can more or less keep up with the fact that he is confused (AKA bad at explaining his thoughts). OR the "confused" part could be wishy-wash scum...

You're focusing on two different things? There is a) Where someone does not have any thoughts and I cannot genuinely put myself in their shoes and follow a coherent (not in the sense of good or bad, but in the sense of HAVING THE ABILITY TO BE FOLLOWED) thought process, and b) Where someone has wishy-wash thoughts, which can split into either a confused person, making their thoughts followable but not necessarily... concise? or being scum who is just intentionally leaving windows of opportunity open.

Ex:

So, there's 323. I know you're probably sick of me going on about this millions of times, but I really think it's scummy. When you look at why town would say that, you come up with all kinds of problems: Why do I need a good reason to think he's town if he's actually town? He says that finding him town for bad reasons is not a scumtell, so that can't be what he's getting at. I'm just left with a big ???

However, when you consider that scum could easily say it in an attempt to look town, then the most realistic option is that he's scum.

Um.... so yeah, there's not really anything else that I think is really scummy, except possibly that really weird reaction to the Absta death, but I don't know.

The thing is, one of the main reasons I've heard for SAD-town is him mentioning the possibility of a traitor, which, considering that scum may not have even known there was a traitor and that I don't think it's that daring even if they did, is not something I agree with.

However, I'm not really as confident about this is as I thought I was (and I sooo wanted to be for once! ), so I'm pretty open to people's townreads because he feels sort of town otherwise, but there's nothing that couldn't come from scum in my opinion.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 2, Votecount 30

kuribo (4) - JasonT1981, Benmage, Ser Arthur Dayne, camn

Kise (2) - The Mini-Librarian, Cerulean
BT (3) - Channeldelibird, kuribo, Sottyrulez
Ser Arthur Dayne (2) - Deasvail, Plessiezarus

Not voting (5) :

ZONEACE, Kise, Nostredeus, Zdenek, BT

• With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 22nd of February at 00:30am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadlien: (expired on 2013-02-21 20:30:28)
  
• No one is V/la!

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Unvote
Vote: Kise

[BT]

True? But it's not like I had ~*~a scumread~*~ on kise, it was only a minor gut feeling, so I don't think it's unreasonable that it didn't seem to phase me that much.

And I noticed the "lynch me" post. I think those sort of posts are null (though very anti-town) (i'm treating this kise lynch mostly as lynching the anti-town dude as things stand)

PEdit: It's because it was a minor feeling (again) that far from strong enough for me to say "yeah, there's a decent chance this is gonna flip scum". I'm against it because it isn't a good lynch.

Our vote on Kise is far from being because we thinks he's the anti-town dude. There are several people I could stick my vote on if I wanted to go for that. Take a look at this: This is Kise as town in a game we recently played together. Notice the difference? And I'm not even the biggest meta person out there, but when someone has played in a game with me and they've demonstrated an ability to be very thoughtful about people's alignments and replaces into another game and basically gives shoddy fluff, there's a problem. And it doesn't have anything to do with anti-town, it's that he hasn't provided a reason to think he's town and I know he can. He's lurking here and not providing content at all, therefore there's a really good chance he's scum.

As far as your "no information" bs...that's exactly what it is. I get irked when I hear people use that argument past day one. I can see where day one you might not want to lynch someone who hasn't provided content, but day 2 when we have 70 pages of information and two scum flips? Hell no. I'm going to lynch who I think has a good chance of being scum.

I didn't claim that other people treated the wagon the same. I know *I* don't think it has a high likelihood of causing a scum flip from what I deduced from Kise's slot's play (nothing). Though I think this is the first time someone linked to a past meta game? I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

The main thing I was saying in regards to "no information" is that I believed that given time the slot will become more clear. Though I guess if it that won't happen even under threat of lynch (right now) then, uh, point taken.

[sottyrulez]

Unvote: Vote: Kise

This is happening.

[Plessiezarus]

sotty

-- what is your read on Arthur and why?

~ Pless

[sottyrulez]

BT look at it now. The difference in post volume alone is striking.

How can you not see that unless you don't want to?

[BT]

It's 1:00 AM, mainly, but I'll give it a glance? Without looking at it it's a proven fact that players play differently in different games. Is this a recent game? Are the circumstances similar?

[sottyrulez]

sotty

-- what is your read on Arthur and why?

~ Pless

If I'm on the spot, I'd say town based on tone. That's not a strong read though.

As best I can tell your reasoning that he's scum is based on an associative tell. I don't like to go all in on those.

[BT]

I haven't read SAD yet but there has been an absta post that's been bothering me:

Vote:Ser Arthur Dayne

I agree with Benmage. The RP is not helping and is annoying.

Bubbles is a scum CI anyway.

Not liking this.
Are you voting him because of the RC or because "he's bubbles"?
Also, how do you know Bubbles is a role in this game?
Why would SAD-bubbles use an avatar of bubbles if he was with scum?
UNVOTE:

In which he looks more bothered by the vote (on SAD) than the player.

But reread tomorrow.

~*~

And yeah, the difference between Kise's opening in that game sure is noticeable. I'd rather establish my opinion tomorrow though as it's really late now.

[Benmage]

unvote vote Kise

Lets wagon him up so we have time for a claim. He's due a prod I imagine soon.. his last post is friday.

[kuribo]

I'd still rather lynch scum than a lurker lynch.

unvote vote Kise

Lets wagon him up so we have time for a claim. He's due a prod I imagine soon.. his last post is friday.

Prodding Kise

[Kawaii]

sotty that's lame. I'm down 2 teammates so my strategy is to taunt people into voting me?

vote: sotty

[Kise]

sotty that's lame. I'm down 2 teammates so my strategy is to taunt people into voting me?

vote: sotty

[sottyrulez]

That was terrible even for you Kise.

[camn]

Opps.. the using-an-alt-to-check-your-scumgame tell?

UNVOTE
VOTE KISE

And sot/zack.. its hard to do LARGE formatting from my phone.. thus my last post.
But now there is a good old fashioned lurkerlynch.. so lets do it