Micro 134 (F11) (Game Over!)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Doesn't really work on account of the third eye.

Wall. (It doesn't look that long due to lack of quotes but it definitely felt long.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(Not that I don't appreciate the smiley.)

[Dazed and Confused]

Gah, Empire and I are too similar, so we're kind of fractured and aimless right now. Also, since we've both been really busy this week, we're basically never online at the same time for long enough to come to an actual decision on our reads.

Have stuff I want to say about CES and Sotty that I'll save for another post to make this less of a wall, but scattered thoughts/questions:

-My head agrees with everything Tierce said in this post. My heart kind of likes the tone of Josh's 189 (well, I like him pointing out that Sotty's reaction to Sixty looks town, and Empire likes his being flippant about Nacho's meta). I acknowledge that this is a personal failure on my part and makes me a bad person.

But Josh, do you realize that in your vote on jason, you did almost the

exact same thing

you voted him for? Why did you unvote him after the wagon lost momentum?

-Nacho, what was the point of your massive analysis of CES's meta? You didn't actually connect any of that to anything he's done this game. You're just telling him what kinds of behaviour you'll read as town from him in advance. And that still doesn't explain why you don't like CES in the first place.

-RachMarie is a weak gut town read for how guileless/earnest she sounds, but she could be scum simply because I seem to think almost everyone else in the game is town. She does come across as forced sometimes, and the point about her meta fluff is fair, I guess. (This read is pending on my other head's meta research.)

-Sixty, I know you essentially said, "Read my posts!" when Sotty asked about your FT read. But why didn't you react to our defence of FT? You didn't even go, "Sorry, but I think you're wrong because X," just ignored them and continued attacking FourTrouble.

[Sotty7]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22202 Newbie 1246 I replaced in for Gen Wolf, partly because I wanted to play with Sotty. I was VT in that game.

Why did you post this?

[RachMarie]

@ Sotty

Answering CES.

@ Sixty

Fair point time to do ISO research and meta research and provide some more solid reads.

[Sixty]

-Sixty, I know you essentially said, "Read my posts!" when Sotty asked about your FT read. But why didn't you react to our defence of FT? You didn't even go, "Sorry, but I think you're wrong because X," just ignored them and continued attacking FourTrouble.

We think you're wrong, we've expressed as much and why, and repeating that won't help anything.

File this post under: "Have you seen any of his other posts for that matter because they aren't very strong either"

[Dazed and Confused]

Yet another EBWOP:

And that still doesn't explain why you

don't like

voted for CES in the first place.

=========================================

I might vote jason if I were alone right now (mostly from PoE), because although Nacho hasn't done anything to make me think he's town, I'm not sure he's done anything particularly

unlikely

to come from town. (Does that make any sense?) But Empire is more confident on Nacho.

Anyway, Sotty is a point of contention for this hydra, but this half thinks her reaction to Sixty looks townish. Her points make sense for someone unfamiliar with Tierce's meta, and she's attacking a hard target instead of just going with the flow. I didn't get an "undermining a trusted player" vibe from her attacks on Sixty, but a sense that she genuinely had an unpopular opinion and was restraining her paranoia because we were vouching for Sixty. (That said, I'd have oddly felt better about her if she hadn't backed away from her Sixty suspicions, or if she'd voted Sixty instead of posting a giant case on Rach, the easier lynch.)

And I think this, as well as all her frustration with Sixty's vote in general, is more likely to come from town!Sotty.

But some things bug me:

D+C is town because I like their pushes. CES can be town until I decide otherwise, he's hard to read and I explained my four vote.

1) Which "pushes" have we made that you like?

2) So, um...CES is not null, but your third strongest town read solely because...you can't read CES?

3) Why didn't you mention Sixty's reaction to jason's L-1 vote at the time, if it was a major factor in your jason town read? How does that even make any sense? (jason is town because you don't like a post Sixty made after his vote?)

I'll save the CES post for later.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I see how it is.

Pretty sure that both Nacho and Sotty are town.

What prompted you to make this post, Josh?

[Sotty7]

1) Which "pushes" have we made that you like?

2) So, um...CES is not null, but your third strongest town read solely because...you can't read CES?

3) Why didn't you mention Sixty's reaction to jason's L-1 vote at the time, if it was a major factor in your jason town read? How does that even make any sense? (jason is town because you don't like a post Sixty made after his vote?)

1) Maybe pushes was the wrong word, but I did like your points on Four when Sixty disagreed with you. Overall both yours and Empire's posts feel town, it's not going to get much deeper than that right now. I just like how you both feel.

2) Pretty much. That's how I deal with CES otherwise I pretty much want to lynch him all the time. It also means I don't have a whole lot of town reads, but then this is a smaller game so I wasn't expecting that anyway. Just would have made things easier.

3) Because it wasn't something I could put into words at the time. I was just reacting to what I saw. It wasn't until I re-read that it triggered and I understood what I didn't like. I had mentioned not liking Sixty's opening, that works into that whole thing. I still do not like the privileged townie they are trying to play I think it goes against the spirit of the game (get me) but whatever. I don't think I have ever played with Tierce outside that one Sherlock game. Vi should post more and I might feel better.

[Sotty7]

Oh, another thing is I really liked Empire's opening few posts against Sixty. I liked his pushing and his reasoning for why he took that route.

[Dazed and Confused]

I just reread the thread, because I thought that was

way

more important than talking about that CES loser. On second thought, Josh can still definitely be scum. Also, no longer as confident in FT being town, because his 111 isn't as genuine as I remembered (the comment about CES attacking lurkers sucked), he keeps insisting stuff he does isn't scummy

way

too much, and I don't like how much he discusses the kinds of things he normally finds scummy/how he usually behaves (scum do that a lot, because it's much easier to talk about true things than your fake reads.) And I'm a bit paranoid because RachMarie looks town in the same way scum!Phillammon (sp?) did in Ponybash Invitational.

So...back to suspecting all the people who'd be lynched regardless of their alignment in this player list?

Fluffy comments (which are also more important than CES):

I kinda wanted to put my vote on the Puppy but only held off because Empire seems to be saying the obnoxious town thing is a common town meta? I kinda hate that but will have to look because I'm finding it extremely fake and crappy.

I/Mina said that about Tierce repeatedly calling herself obvtown. But Empire is convinced that Sixty is town (and that "Keep posting like scum, it's fun to watch" would never, ever come from scum!Tierce), so you can take his word for it.

Hint: alternate possibilities for the name of this hydra were "The Wall" and "Ramble On".

Both of those are better names by the bye. I'd've gone for Death and Taxes myself.

Does knowing the reference change your mind?

Lastly (and more importantly than CES), I still can't make my sig show up despite changing the option to attach it. Let's see if this only works on future posts.

[Josh Lyman]

Have you played with Nacho- or Sottyscum?

I have played with Nachoscum. I have not with Sotty, that I can recall.

I see a whole lot has been posted since I prepped this comment.

I'll catch up later tonight.

[Dazed and Confused]

God, I'm going through Rach's games and I'm frustrated.

Initial reading of Micro 110 and Open 472 is that she is extremely proactive in scumhunting, more vocal about her disagreements with others, and gives somewhat involved meta analysis. Contrast this Micro 28 where she just kinda nodded her head along with Nacho and sucked up to him immensely and was much lurkerish/less proactive which I thought matched her play here (see: sucking up to CES, not really being proactive here). But then there's Open 397 and aaaaaaaaaah.

I'll try and go through FT's meta too.

[Sotty7]

I kinda wanted to put my vote on the Puppy but only held off because Empire seems to be saying the obnoxious town thing is a common town meta? I kinda hate that but will have to look because I'm finding it extremely fake and crappy.

I/Mina said that about Tierce repeatedly calling herself obvtown. But Empire is convinced that Sixty is town (and that "Keep posting like scum, it's fun to watch" would never, ever come from scum!Tierce), so you can take his word for it.

So I'm not insane. Good to know.

How extensive is Empire's meta of Tierce? I don't need links but a rough number would be good and his average success rate of reading her.

[Dazed and Confused]

Sotty, just read this (+ the fact that we've hydra'd together twice + she's one of the few that have seen that rare thing called Empire as scum.)

[Zachrulez]

8th vote count of day 1:

Nachomamma8 - 2 (Cogito Ergo Sum, Dazed and Confused)
Josh Lyman - 2 (RachMarie, JasonT1981)
JasonT1981 - 2 (Nachomamma8, FourTrouble)
RachMarie - 1 (Sotty7)
Sotty7 - 1 (Sixty)

Not Voting: (Josh Lyman)

Deadline: (expired on 2013-03-11 14:30:00)

[FourTrouble]

Sotty is town as fvck. Her thought process mirrors a lot of my own and her response to Sixty's attack by trying to understand where Sixty was coming from was very pro-town. Especially trying to understand the reasoning behind Sixty's suspicion of me, not just herself, showed a lot of thought and effort to understand Sixty's motivations, very genuine scumhunting.

Dazed and Confused is a weaker read of mine but also town. That said, I don't understand the shift regarding me in this post:

Also, no longer as confident in FT being town, because his 111 isn't as genuine as I remembered (the comment about CES attacking lurkers sucked), he keeps insisting stuff he does isn't scummy way too much, and I don't like how much he discusses the kinds of things he normally finds scummy/how he usually behaves (scum do that a lot, because it's much easier to talk about true things than your fake reads.)

What about my comment on CES suddenly doesn't seem genuine? And what do you mean you don't like that I insist the stuff I do isn't scummy? I haven't just gone around saying I'm not scummy just for the sake of saying it, it was directly in response to Sixty's attack.

I think scum has to be between Rach/Jason/Josh, maybe Sixty or CES. I'm trusting CES is town for now, assuming it for the same reason as Sotty. I thought Sixty was town because of their interactions with Dazed and Confused earlier but their latest posts aren't making any sense to me.

After reevaluating what I don't like about Sixty is 1) their terrible vote on Sotty, and 2) that they call my uncertainty earlier in the game scummy when other players were committing to far less positions. For example, Rach who may have had her vote on Josh but hadn't actually voiced any opinions of her own. Sixty has been defending Rach all game for no reason whatsoever, especially in light of the fact that Sixty is calling me scummy for things Rach is doing to an even greater degree (and has kept doing). I vote for Rach, Sixty calls me scummy. Sotty votes for Rach, Sixty calls Sotty scummy. Which begs the question:

Sixty, why do you think Rach is town?

[Sotty7]

Sotty, just read this (+ the fact that we've hydra'd together twice + she's one of the few that have seen that rare thing called Empire as scum.)

Point taken.

[Dazed and Confused]

Point taken.

Now that I've shown you mine, can you talk about Jason's meta for a bit? Why might he be scum here?

[Dazed and Confused]

That would be a ballsy move for ScumJason, lets see what he comes back with. Right now, I'm not buying it.

Wanted to ask because of the above. I remember he turbo bussed his partner(s) in TM 2012 so I don't get the impression that he's risk adverse as scum and I think his self meta is somewhat accurate.

[Sotty7]

I'm not as scientific as you when it comes to breaking down meta, but the reasoning comes down to the fact he isn't actually doing anything in this game. He came in with a typical ill thought out Jason townie gambit but then there was extremely little follow up. The vote on Josh just seemed like a cop-out and he gave no reads on anyone else outside Four. Jasonscum will lurk if you let him, he will give minimal information. I know he is in a bunch of games right now but I need to see a hell of a lot more to decide which way my read falls. This is why he is a weak scum read and not an actual vote, I need him to come in and actually post in the game, I need to interact with him but there is nothing yet.

Are you going to tell me that you have a town read of his slot right now?

[Dazed and Confused]

Are you going to tell me that you have a town read of his slot right now?

Nah, I had him as leaning town before based on some superficial nonsense my other head quickly told me was dumb and I agreed so he's back in null.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

We should probably lynch Nacho. He's the common link.

Does knowing the reference change your mind?

Not really? Song seems fairly mediocre.

[RachMarie]

Wait a minute here CES you want to lynch someone who is V/LA and can't answer for himself?

[RachMarie]

Speaking of Nacho, one of the things that sticks out in my mind plus in research is he tends to hard bus his scum buddy One of the reasons I would like to wait til he can speak is to see if he does that. Would help us get both of the scum in one swoop.

The other reason is I do not feel comfortable with lynching someone who is V/LA