/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Benmage]

The Vi wagon is meh. I think it looks like normal Vi. I prefer this one.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Playing very differently from Team Mafia, where he was town.

Team Mafia is a bad example of town CES.

[Benmage]

I do intend to towninate, just not in my accustomed post 150 times D1 fashion.

I feel like scum Llamarable, would've said something along the lines of the game hasn't been going to long enough for him to get his groove... And then I'd imagine he'd try and emulate his "town" play.

Saying he's not going to be normal Llamarable, sounds townish to me. Remember my disclaimer in Weather Mafia II.

So yeah, I'll bump llamarable to slight town.

[Shadoweh]

Hey, I'm posting in the middle of vacuuming and moving TV's too. But alright then. I'm going to think of sleeping again. I am flattered that Vi thinks this is me being less abrasive then usual. I don't actually remember.. oh, you're talking about freaking Otherworld. Ha ha funny, I think Day 1 is a bit different then replacing into a game town was obliterating to find yourself sccum and you and your teammate are the only wagons. I don't remember a second game where it was town/town/scum, I remember Me-town/scum/SK though.

[Benmage]

It's too early for you to be attacking N for playing to his troll scum meta. He does this as town as well; the difference is that he actually steps it the fuck up as town when he gets something he cares about. I seriously doubt that N is going to play in an invitational with a playerlist like this and expect to get away with doing nothing.

He kinda is trying to get away with doing nothing so far though.

A little blatant tho, no?

[Faraday]

Day 1, Votecount 15

Nachomamma8 (1) - N
penguin_alien (2) - Llamarble, Deasvail
Shadoweh (1) - WickedestJr
Llamarble (1) - penguin_alien
Johhog (2) - Nachomamma8, Tammy

N (4) - Tierce, Vi, CrashTextDummie, Empire

Vi (2) - Benmage, Cogito Ergo Sum
CrashTextDummie (1) - Shadoweh
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Johhog

Not voting (1) :

Konowa

• With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 5th of March at 00:38am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-04 20:30:28)
  
• Tierce is V/la

[Benmage]

So yes, in my eyes you are capable of reading dv - at least better than me - so I'm interested in your thoughts on the matter. I'm not saying I expect you to be right early day one or anything as I remember you town reading him day one in that game too.

You want him(konowa) to give reads on dv... yet yield its too soon to give a proper read.

And one game reading someone correctly = good at reading them?

[Tierce]

...Oh. It needed a question mark.

Currently, scum. Wouldn't lynch Today.

(^Inreference to shadow)Thats odd? Why not lynch today?

I've answered this already.

I'm going to go with leaning town on N. Following his success in NY 160, I'd expect him to be more motivated as scum with this kind of playerlist (he knows that he can fool good players) and try harder to look town. Compared to here, he was just a lot more pro-town there, and that's more the kind of thing I'd expect. I don't think the reasons behind the wagon are all that bad, I just don't really agree.

And yet, this is a good chunk of the playerlist that was in Black Flag Nightless as well, both as his scumbuddies and as the Town who caught him. So no, I don't see why he should have a particular level of motivation to be playing better. Goodness knows I'd be curled up in a corner in a ball of sad if I had drawn scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Team Mafia was such a perfect storm. I don't expect a game with that high a rhetoric:scumhunting ratio to come around for me for a while.

Benmage, the change that 'marble mentioned predates this game (see norlkaz) so it's not a tell.

[Shadoweh]

A little blatant tho, no?

Apathy isn't something scum do on purpose. Being blatantly scummy has never been an excuse not to lynch people who aren't trying. N isn't the one I want to flip first though.

[Tierce]

@CTD (#311): Erm, it wasn't supposed to be a suggestion, I made it pretty explicit that I thought that post was scummy. You're basically expressing suspicion on the two of us while keeping your vote on Llamarble and commenting on us both without taking a more clear stance on which of us you think comes off worse in it just makes it seem like you're trying to encourage the argument rather than trying to glean meaningful information from it. And I don't see a BoP aspect to Shadoweh's argument which is why I haven't responded to it + I've already suggested I'm somewhat leaning town on her though it's been reinforced by her recent posting.

Stop looking so Town, you. I will not have this kind of competition.

[DeasVail]

And yet, this is a good chunk of the playerlist that was in Black Flag Nightless as well, both as his scumbuddies and as the Town who caught him. So no, I don't see why he should have a particular level of motivation to be playing better. Goodness knows I'd be curled up in a corner in a ball of sad if I had drawn scum.

The thing is that in NY 160 it was mentioned how he was completely different from black flag nightless (by Regfan/Empire/Both) so why not play how he did there?

[DeasVail]

I actually think my reasoning on Penguin is kind of alright though, and am surprised other people don't think anything of it?

[Empire]

Team Mafia was such a perfect storm. I don't expect a game with that high a rhetoric:scumhunting ratio to come around for me for a while.

Benmage, the change that 'marble mentioned predates this game (see norlkaz) so it's not a tell.

Am I seeing things or is this what a CES towntell looks like?

Anyone?

(I want to be the first to claim this marvelous discovery if true.)

[Empire]

Actually, I just thought of something.

@penguin:

In #155, you pointed out how you didn't like CES's "coasting/non-game related posts" -- what do you think of Vi? If town, can you make any meaningful distinction between Vi's play and CES's play that would justify the different treatment?

[Tammy]

I don't think that Shadoweh is really all that easy to read early game, and if she's scum it should start becoming evident in a couple days. But, my first thought is Post 328 followed up by Post 329 comes from town. Her arguments against CTD look natural enough; I don't have any particular thoughts on CTD though, so I'll look back at that later.

[Tammy]

Tammy are you ignoring me on purpose stop it. One liners from you are weird even if they're in post chains.

I wasn't ignoring you? I mentioned that I saw you at the bottom of the screen not posting because I wanted you to come post so I could feel something about your alignment.

I don't know why one liners are weird from me? They're actually quite standard from me, especially when I'm catching up and commenting as I go along. I don't wall all the time; I think I've even gone a game or two without any walls. (Besides the length of my posts is not alignment indicative; it's mood indicative. I'm quite capable of walling as scum.)

[Tammy]

Tammy usually posts huge blocks of

angry text

insights into how she feels about a person so one-liners that don't sound mad are strange. Also telling N to unsnark when compared to his other games he's not snarking. I would prefer he try to show some sort of personal opinion. I would imagine you want him to try and give out real opinions too, especially if he is scum.

But I don't though? I mean sometimes, but I really sound mad all the time. I'm sure I'm not mad every game.

As far as the N remark, maybe I worded that badly. I was asking him to snark. The person I was referring to who has had people request to tone down the snark was me. I like it when others snark.

i also like it when others throw fits and be theatric, makes me feel better

[Tammy]

@Tammy:

Echoing Shadoweh's sentinments, I'm not getting the super warm and fuzzy townie vibes from your posts but I know you've said you sometimes struggle on D1. Please towninate, too.

But I already have towninated? I don't know why you don't get warm and fuzzy thoughts from my posts as I think anyone who could easily read me should be able to decipher that I'm town. I don't even think I'm struggling. Why would you get that? I'm not going to write some big rambling wall so that you can say okay that's town when it should be clear to you that my thought process about this game is natural. I'm sure that will come in time when I have a chance to look back at people's arguments, but I'm not going to play counter to what feels natural to me.

[Shadoweh]

I just wanted to get your attention, which you addressed-ish with a 'will get to CTD later'. I hope you're not all waiting for him to post again, because he's taking as long as unreasonably possible to poop out posts and I hate waiting. And I supose no one is attacking you so you haven't been triggered. I don't know why you bothered to ask me to post though if you were just going to say I'm impossible to read early <.< I'm going to read that as 'Looks Town but I still have scarring even though Shadoweh sounds nothing like a fuzzy ball.' I think it's because you're directly reacting to every post iinstead of making your own to shinily leap out of.

[Tammy]

No, I mean when I get a chance to actually read back, which will not be today, I'll look back at the arguments. There's several I need to look back at: yours with CTD and Tierce and Konowa. And I feel like there's something else I'm forgetting.

I'm just short on time at the moment, and am trying to keep afloat.

That I don't feel comfortable reading you doesn't mean I don't want to try. I mean I'd wager town right now but I've lost my money before on that one. >_>

[Tammy]

Shadoweh, CTD is still kind of null. Maybe a little scummy, but reading his posts it's like "This tells me nothing about your alignment. WHHHHYYYYY?"

I'm going to go with leaning town on N. Following his success in NY 160, I'd expect him to be more motivated as scum with this kind of playerlist (he knows that he can fool good players) and try harder to look town. Compared to here, he was just a lot more pro-town there, and that's more the kind of thing I'd expect. I don't think the reasons behind the wagon are all that bad, I just don't really agree.

But, do you think scum N would feel that way here? He's been scum partners with Vi and Tierce and has been caught as scum by Empire and I. I imagine the playerlist could feel a bit intimidating to him too. So, his not doing anything here is definitely alarming.

[Tammy]

The Vi wagon is meh. I think it looks like normal Vi. I prefer this one.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Playing very differently from Team Mafia, where he was town.

I vote Johhog and say it's partly because he feels different from when he was town.

He says there could be a reason for that.

Votes someone else for the same reason. >_>

[Empire]

Tammy, why are you such a NEGATIVE NANCY?

[CrashTextDummie]

Llamarble:

How does one justify a vote without talking about the thought process that led to it?
I'm pretty clearly (IMO) talking about how things looked to me after some re-reading, not about why I voted CTD.
It was indeed the attacking two persons and voting one of them (chained together in this particular manner) that bugged me, not a 'voting someone other than the person they are attacking' scenario. I'll admit I could be clearer on that.

You voted me for stated reason "the post looks constructed in a scummy way" and your new evidence is really just an extension of that. It's a short post so I don't really see why this would bother you on a reread only when you objected to the post to begin with. It in fact wasn't clear to me that this was a result of a reread and while I find it strange I don't find it as scummy as I initially thought.

I believe my wagon was large enough and scummy enough in character that it's a solid way to make the problem smaller.

I think narrowing the lynch pool in this manner is somewhat arbitrary if you're not going to differentiate between the people who contributed to the scummy character of the wagon and those who didn't, but after giving it some thought, I can see the logic from your point of view.

---------------

@CTD (#311): Erm, it wasn't supposed to be a suggestion, I made it pretty explicit that I thought that post was scummy. You're basically expressing suspicion on the two of us while keeping your vote on Llamarble and commenting on us both without taking a more clear stance on which of us you think comes off worse in it just makes it seem like you're trying to encourage the argument rather than trying to glean meaningful information from it. And I don't see a BoP aspect to Shadoweh's argument which is why I haven't responded to it + I've already suggested I'm somewhat leaning town on her though it's been reinforced by her recent posting.

I didn't take a more clear stance on which of you came off worse because it wasn't relevant to my vote, but at least I see now where you're coming from now re: "fanning the flames". As for meaningful information, I was both giving it by expressing my suspicions and gleaning it from both your reactions to the accusation. We'll have to agree to disagree with regards to the BoP aspect to Shadoweh's argument but it's worth pointing out that it was by no means clear that you were leaning town on here until this point. She was noticeably absent from your list of town reads (which included a "very, very weak" read on Tammy), which made your indifference towards her attack against you an oddity at the very least.

I still think your self-analysis was over the top, but I can see more pro-town motivation behind it in light of your town read on her. And you have since put much more resources into things other than nursing your image.

--------------

Benmage:

I am not currently interested in a Vi wagon though.

Why not?

Short answer: I haven't seen anything from him that indicates scum to me. This comment was mostly intended to get you and CES to do something more productive with your votes.

--------------

Nachomamma8:

It's too early for you to be attacking N for playing to his troll scum meta. He does this as town as well; the difference is that he actually steps it the fuck up as town when he gets something he cares about. I seriously doubt that N is going to play in an invitational with a playerlist like this and expect to get away with doing nothing.

A developing wagon on him should be something to care about.

-------------

Separate post for Shadoweh coming up.

[Tammy]

Tammy, why are you such a NEGATIVE NANCY?

I have no idea what you're talking about.