MINI 1423 Dark Souls: Prepare to die....YOU DIED

[Empking]

Unvote; Vote: Leviathan

Alright, Iecerint gets a pass for now.

Unvote, Vote: Leviathan

Iecerint did not mean how simple/complex your reasoning was... he's talking about the lack of effort behind your post or the taking of strong stances. If you can't even bother to look up what strawman means (Wikipedia serves this purpose quite well), it further confirms the point.

then because y'all are so pointless and stupid in your reasoning cuz it doesn't MAKE me scummy.

UNVOTE: VOTE: leviathan

I did put effort into those reads. Its my opinion and what I read. also just because I don't know something doesn't make me scummy cuz i haven't looked it up. no effort, does not imply scumminess. even though you can't read the amount of effort i DID put in to it.

Unvote
Vote: lev

His wself-vote was a ploy; a ploy of the scum variety.

Empking, how is 4 votes (3 if you don't include levi's vote) not a wagon?

Its not jumping on a wagon if you have to count my vote. I(I did misremember the number of votes on him, though.)

P_Edit: Orphan = all by myself. Non-orphan = Non-all by myself.

[Nachomamma8]

^He doesn't get all questioning and hesitant about specific wagons in that ISO

there's the same votehopping, and the same lack of explanations. so are you discounting that part of your case on him and upgrading it to a meta read, or do you still believe in your original reasoning?

I don't think it is reasonable, considering he asked me questions which he wanted specific responses to which were in that post. As town, he'd probably read that post and follow up on those responses, no?

Probably, but maybe not.

The second one, yeah, if he wanted to undermine my opinion, would be a pretty viable thing to do.

Except it was blatant and easily refutable. That doesn't undermine your opinion, it just makes him look like an idiot.

P-P-Edit: I'm less certain of the Rest wagon avoidance tbh, he wasn't showing outright hesitance to join the wagon, he just kinda ignored it, whereas with PV he was really hesitant and looked more like he was looking for reasons to stay off the wagon than to get on it.

so who is your backup suspicion if rest is town?
and why do you think rest is scum independent of your other two scumreads?

[Sotty7]

"Ahh, you think you're different? That you can handle it? Yes I remember that feeling. For I was the same.
....So, let me help you out. With your soul searching."

13th vote count of Day one

TheOneWhoKnocks: 5 (PeregrineV, Nachomamma8, leviathan93, Iecerint, Empking)

PeregrineV: 4 (Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Human Destroyer, TheOneWhoKnocks)
Human Destroyer: 2 (FourTrouble, RestFermata)
Debonair Danny DiPietro: 1 (JasonT1981)

Not voting: 1 (chkflip)

With

13

players alive it takes

7

to lynch

DEADLINE:

(expired on 2013-03-07 21:00:00)

[chkflip]

VOTE: Empking

Because meta. Still reading.

[Human Destroyer]

^He doesn't get all questioning and hesitant about specific wagons in that ISO

there's the same votehopping, and the same lack of explanations. so are you discounting that part of your case on him and upgrading it to a meta read, or do you still believe in your original reasoning?

I hate doing pure meta based reads with the exception of certain players (*cough*ArcAngel*cough*) and, while I suppose you do have a point that those unexplained wagon hops are there, I don't think it makes Emp less scummy here, especially with that point I made.

P-P-Edit: I'm less certain of the Rest wagon avoidance tbh, he wasn't showing outright hesitance to join the wagon, he just kinda ignored it, whereas with PV he was really hesitant and looked more like he was looking for reasons to stay off the wagon than to get on it.

so who is your backup suspicion if rest is town?
and why do you think rest is scum independent of your other two scumreads?

She was lining up lynches earlier, trying to discredit her attacker by calling my interpretation a misrep, and hasn't done anything that stands out to me as town since then.

If Rest is town, I immediately snapped to chkflip because his unvote came at the perfect time for a derailment of the PV wagon, but I had a townread on tiger, so I don't think it's him.

Y'know what, tbh, I'll get back to you on this, I haven't really been thinking of much besides a PV/Rest/Empking partnership

[Nachomamma8]

I hate doing pure meta based reads with the exception of certain players (*cough*ArcAngel*cough*) and, while I suppose you do have a point that those unexplained wagon hops are there, I don't think it makes Emp less scummy here, especially with that point I made.

it's not a pure meta read. it's noticing that certain things are within a player's meta, and not using those habits as angles to attack them from. why don't you think it makes him less scummy?

[chkflip]

Again, I haven't read, but if the "case" on Emp is purely meta based on wagon jumping I'll have to inform you that he does that as town and scum. My meta information is the style and consistency in which he is posting reading from a slightly less town-motivated mindset.

[Human Destroyer]

Almost every vote of his in that game came with a small explanation attached, no matter how shitty it was

These votes feel more like opportunism rather than actually representing Empking's reads. I guess it's gut.

P-Edit: I guess sorta what chkflip said

[Nachomamma8]

Again, I haven't read, but if the "case" on Emp is purely meta based on wagon jumping I'll have to inform you that he does that as town and scum.

this is what i was saying originally, you ignored it to continue calling him scum
why?

[chkflip]

I think he's scum for reasons mutually exclusive to that. I thought that was stated to be pretty obvious?

Y'know, like it says in the rest of the very post you quoted. Nice misrep.

[Nachomamma8]

you know that i'm not talking to you, right?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Wait, so the PV wagon has collapsed because of a VT claim? At least I got a Jason town-read out of the entire thing but that claim did absolutely nothing to persuade me.

[VP Baltar]

why the fuck aren't we lynching someone who claims VT? Do you seriously think that the scum wouldn't have received fake claims with this much flavor? For everyone who just jumped off of PV, and for PV himself who said that his wagon sprang up quickly for no reason, tell me what is the reasoning behind TOWK wagon. Thought so.

tl;dr - Lynching PV is the logical choice today and will result in dead scum. Quit derping about flavor.

pedit - why did I ever doubt you DDD?

[Nachomamma8]

I am not jumping off PV because of VT claim; I am jumping off PV because of his reaction to me. I'm going to do a little legwork to see if my feelings are correct, but not now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am not jumping off PV because of VT claim; I am jumping off PV because of his reaction to me. I'm going to do a little legwork to see if my feelings are correct, but not now.

You mean that single post where he was mildly sarcastic? I'm on record as AtE's being a towntell but a bit of whining isn't really the sort of AtE I'm looking for.

[leviathan93]

Wait, so the PV wagon has collapsed because of a VT claim? At least I got a Jason town-read out of the entire thing but that claim did absolutely nothing to persuade me.

thats cuz it was a vanilla town claim. duh it did nothing to persuade you. anyone technically could claim VT and no one could really refute or anything. I'm just thanking god it wasn't a power role claim. and for what its worth. I believe the claim.

[leviathan93]

why the fuck aren't we lynching someone who claims VT? Do you seriously think that the scum wouldn't have received fake claims with this much flavor? For everyone who just jumped off of PV, and for PV himself who said that his wagon sprang up quickly for no reason, tell me what is the reasoning behind TOWK wagon. Thought so.

tl;dr - Lynching PV is the logical choice today and will result in dead scum. Quit derping about flavor.

pedit - why did I ever doubt you DDD?

i do doubt that scum has received fake claims with this much flavor and if he ends up being lynched and found out as scum then I will admit i'm wrong. but i currently believe the VT claim. i have been in that situation before and know what its like.

as for the reason behind the TOWK wagon, because his quick jump onto the peregrine wagon even though he was a replacement. he had two posts and his second one just popped himself onto a wagon that was already full of people. if he is scum then he knew he would probably be lynched and supported it, a safe wagon to jump on.

it also shows that he probably didn't read the game very well if he thinks perergrine the only person with votes really was scummy. its like he didn't care and just wanted a lynch to happen. I personally view that to be scummy.

[chkflip]

you know that i'm not talking to you, right?

YOU QUOTED ME YOU FKSDFHJSHKJEHFKJEN.

I haven't read fully, so I wouldn't know. Carry on.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

i do doubt that scum has received fake claims with this much flavor and if he ends up being lynched and found out as scum then I will admit i'm wrong. but i currently believe the VT claim. i have been in that situation before and know what its like.

as for the reason behind the TOWK wagon, because his quick jump onto the peregrine wagon even though he was a replacement. he had two posts and his second one just popped himself onto a wagon that was already full of people. if he is scum then he knew he would probably be lynched and supported it, a safe wagon to jump on.

Amongst the first things anyone competent at game design does is makes sure that their game cannot be broken by scum being put in a bad position. That means either town and scum are mixed through the "natural" divides in the flavor so town and scum don't match good and evil with any sort of trend or that scum are provided claims good enough to stand up to scrutiny. Sotty knows what she's doing, your argument is nonsense.

And here I'll defend TOWK in that I told him to vote for PV, sure it was an easy vote to make but he's played with me before and I pushed for him to do it. Let's not act like this was an unprompted action where he's just sneaking onto the biggest wagon for that reason and that reason alone.

[VP Baltar]

i do doubt that scum has received fake claims with this much flavor

based upon what exactly? That doesn't make any sense.

i currently believe the VT claim.

based upon what exactly? That doesn't make any sense.


Seriously, though, how in the world do you think it's logical to design a game that can be broken by all the VTs claiming flavor and the scum sitting their with their hands in the air with no recourse to stop it?

[leviathan93]

@VP

because i have never as scum received any manner of flavoring that would allow me to live up to any fake claims that i could make. i know it happens but because it has not ever happened to me, i'm not sure how often it happens. THAT"S my reasoning behind that.

also as i have stated i just believe it because i believe his flavoring as VT. i don't want to go into detail or i will spoil my role. also my second reasoning is that i believe it in my gut. thats more than i can say for other parts in this game currently.

@DDD fair enough. you told him to vote peregrine and he just obeyed willingly. but now what am i to think of that? are you two in cohorts as both being scum? are one of you scum? possibly him because he just went along with you and could use it as an excuse later as his reason for voting a town member to be lynched? that would make you an innocent town he took advantage of. or are you scum trying to manipulate the players into voting for a known town by you?

you yourself don't have THAT good of evidence on peregrine. you are just one of the ones pushing the wagon forward.

[RestFermata]

If Rest is town, I immediately snapped to chkflip because his unvote came at the perfect time for a derailment of the PV wagon, but I had a townread on tiger, so I don't think it's him.

Y'know what, tbh, I'll get back to you on this, I haven't really been thinking of much besides a PV/Rest/Empking partnership

I know Nacho asked you to and blah blah blah, but nonetheless be careful with that speculation on who's scum if I'm town. You wouldn't want to be accused of "lining up lynches," would you?

I'd really rather lynch HD than anyone else at this point. He's a strange hybrid between cautious and aggressive that has me worried, and his speculations on the proposed scumteam seem forced and after-the-fact. Meh, it's mostly gut, and that's the best my conscious mind can do to explain what it is I'm picking up.

PV, nahhh, let's not lynch him today. I'm leaning town on him now, not because he claimed VT, but because of the way he expressed it and the succinct manner in which he responded to jason's questions. I would expect scum to be a little more defensive in that situation. Thinking about it a little more, I guess it's pretty probable that scum do indeed have safeclaims, but eh. Call it stubbornly hanging onto my convictions, but I'm still not comfortable with lynching PV today after the way he acted when he claimed. Let's keep him around for another day and

perhaps

consider it tomorrow when there isn't someone like HD around to take precedence.

HD is my top scum candidate. Let's lynch him today, k? I'm like, 25% more certain he is scum than I am of anyone else. I honestly don't think Empking is scum right now because I can't see HD and Empking being partners. (Yeah, that's a different thought process than I used with the lev/Nacho situation, but I'm more sure that HD is scum than I ever was of lev.)

[chkflip]

lol'd VP. "RAH RAH RAH I'M SCUM."

[VP Baltar]

oh now I remember why I stopped playing mafia. No one on here is good at it anymore. 'cept DDD of course.

Listen up young uns, scum get fake claims, that's a fact. I don't understand this argument of "PV's reaction" makes him town. I do call it stubbornly hanging on RF. How did the way he claim make him more town for you? All he did was read a claim and give flavor to go along with that claim. Nothing more, nothing less. Tell me where i'm wrong.

[chkflip]

In a game with flavor, it makes sense that even the VT's were given flavor to work with.

Are you saying you didn't get flavor in your PM? Oh, oh you did? Then you should know you're wrong.

Those questions are rhetorical. I am not fishing nor do I give a shit about your role. I know you got flavor because DUH. We all did.

UNVOTE: Empking
VOTE: VP Baltar

Call me dumb some more. Go ahead.