Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[goodmorning]

@ac: See my response to Zai in 137 for my reasons to vote NS.
Space was a typo.

[ac1983fan]

@ac: See my response to Zai in 137 for my reasons to vote NS.
Space was a typo.

Those aren't reasons; what you have there are just a bunch of links to his posts and saying "I don't like these." You're also still voting NS and haven't really engaged any of the other wagons/cases other than to say "meh I think they're meh."

vote:belisarius

As mentioned before he's active lurking worse than NS and I don't like the fact that several of his posts of contribution have been rather anti-town.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I, for one, refuse to leave NS alive for LYLO.

What if he's confirmed town by then?

If the standard mix of mitigating circumstances allows, without any exceptional events/occurrences taking place or my untimely death I, for one, refuse to leave NS alive for LYLO.

[Apozzle]

Apozzle:
Expecting to be found scummy and pointing that out? Sounds kind of scummy.

I'm honestly curious about it. I was AWOL for three days before somebody noted it (and even then, the posts were mild). I don't consider ignoring such an extended absence to be in the best interests of town, and when there are facts I prefer to make statements about them.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Apozzle you've either thrown down a scum ploy or complete rubbish.

I don't consider going AWOL for such an extended absence to be in the best interests of town, so before you go about slapping us on the wrists for not slapping slapping you on the wrist enough how about you kick your own arse first 'kay?

Or admit that you're scum trying to make a town tell -

"hey look guys I care about my absence in the interest of town, you should too..."

- and we'll start piling on your wagon now.

[pieceofpecanpie]

EBWOP should read "[...]for such an extended

period

to be [...]"

[Apozzle]

I'm starting to think Implosion was right. You do overreact.

[Apozzle]

...And I watched him scoot around on the site elsewhere at will for those 6 hours as well.

Also, just want to point out that that comes off as

kind of creepy.

[Belisarius]

Huzzah! Attention!

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

As for my comments on NS's last post, I

do

overestimate people sometimes. It's preferable to underestimating them. Still not sure if I regret bringing it up, it could be useful later.

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

[Cheery Dog]

...And I watched him scoot around on the site elsewhere at will for those 6 hours as well.

Also, just want to point out that that comes off as

kind of creepy.

Is being creepy a town or scum action? (or null?)

Huzzah! Attention!

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

As for my comments on NS's last post, I

do

overestimate people sometimes. It's preferable to underestimating them. Still not sure if I regret bringing it up, it could be useful later.

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

I thought that was the reason why some people

weren't

voting him.

and that Appeal to failure (or possibly emotions, I'm not sure how it actually works) looks worse that the one from Apozzle. Depending on what happens in the coming pages, you're both possible scum for them.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Apozzle Just wondering, now that you're here and active are you planning on contributing any thought or read?

@Belisarius Who do you want to see a wagon on?

@Cheery You seem to be starting the roll a few thoughts about players around. Are you lining things up to switch votes off Cub, just staying open to possibilities or something else?

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery You seem to be starting the roll a few thoughts about players around. Are you lining things up to switch votes off Cub, just staying open to possibilities or something else?

I'm not totally gungho about Cub being scum, as he hasn't done anything more scummy since I voted him, however I feel he is still currently the most likely scum and therefore leaving my vote there, but there are a few people (as you see with my thoughts you're asking about) I'm started growing suspicions on, but they're not quite as high as the one I gandered on Cub.

[ac1983fan]

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

Any that do?

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

It's not really WIFOM so much as "fuck it, I don't want to deal with this shit so let's just lynch him" which is...not technically pro-town but I'd argue potentially town-positive.

[Zaicon]

Zaicon: Could you elaborate on what you "don't like" about POPP's reaction to SD? That's pretty fookin' vague.

I don't like the fact that pieceofpecanpie took the opportunity to accuse SafetyDance of 'jumping off of Nobody Special' when SafetyDance voted for pieceofpecanpie. All he bases that on was the fact that SafetyDance changed his vote from a semi-lurker to pieceofpecanpie. I don't know why he assumes that means SafetyDance's vote for Nobody Special was "meaningless". I also don't know why that's worthy of a vote (nor his later claim of implosion being SafetyDance's partner, which just seems like setting up lynches at this point).

[Cub Daigoro]

It's not really WIFOM so much as "fuck it, I don't want to deal with this shit so let's just lynch him" which is...not technically pro-town but I'd argue potentially town-positive.

I say NS is scummy. Others say "Nuh-uh! Meta!" I say, if his meta is scummy, he deserves the attention.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Zaicon Uhhh, Safety making a vote seem important and then trivialising it a few posts later isn't suss? I don't buy that he still holds NS as an important vote target or that I'm somehow connected to NS. It's felt completely opportunistic. You feel what I said initially is worthy of a vote from Safety?

[Zaicon]

Where did he make his vote 'seem important'? The only reason I see that SafetyDance voted for Nobody Special was for lurking reasons.

As for his vote on you, no, I don't think the fact that you FoS'd instead of voted was a good reason by itself to vote for you. But since it can easily be argued that he did that to see how you reacted to it (which is supported by his FoS --> vote change, which I think was intentional as well), and his reasoning in post 124 also making sense, I don't have any particular reason to believe he had scummy motivations for doing that.

[goodmorning]

Those aren't reasons; what you have there are just a bunch of links to his posts and saying "I don't like these." You're also still voting NS and haven't really engaged any of the other wagons/cases other than to say "meh I think they're meh."

They are meh. And not liking people's posts means I don't see them coming from a Town perspective, that they don't fit, that they are scummy.

@Apozzle: When there's someone who's not even posted once, a mere lurker can indeed slide under the radar.

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

Nooooooo, kill him because of 25, kill him because of 37, kill him because of 65 even, kill him because he's done even less than you have.
Not because you can't read him, that's stupid.

And let me break this down, since people are going to be like" but why do you think they're scummy??"
25 is scummy because NS has been around long enough to know that people sometimes do really random stuff D1. This should not confuse him, and I feel like he's playing the "I don't know anything" card early on with it.
37 is scummy because it is completely unhelpful to Town and because he caved to pressure rather than make a fuss.
65 is a little bit scummy just in the way he reacts to Cub; that vote had been on him since the first page and he chose not to address it til then?
Active lurking is rather scummy for obvious reasons.

[Belisarius]

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

I thought that was the reason why some people

weren't

voting him.

I read the case on NS as "He has a meta for lurking and being unhelpful, so surely we should policy lynch him on D1" which strikes me as a

horrible

idea. Based on zero other evidence, he is statistically more likely to be town-aligned than scum or SK, which means his vote will be used for town-aligned reasons. We might

need

that vote. Secondly, what will a policy lynch on D1 accomplish except to make us go into D2 knowing as little as possible? It'll be D1 all over again. When is lynching someone based

purely

on their meta

ever

a good idea?

There's one other reason I'm opposed to a NS lynch, but I can't discuss here it right now due to the ongoing game rule.

@Belisarius Who do you want to see a wagon on?

Does wanting to derail a shitwagon that's harmful to town necessarily require knowing exactly who those votes should be switched to? Well, Safety's my strongest scumread, as evinced by my vote. Go to town.

@Cheery You seem to be starting the roll a few thoughts about players around. Are you lining things up to switch votes off Cub, just staying open to possibilities or something else?

Are you advocating tunnelling? Because it looks like you're looking askance at someone taking shots at someone other than their top scumread in a game with up to 3 scum + 1 SK.

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

Any that do?

Yes. Townhunting/PoE, eliminating useless lynches like NS's, and one other trick that won't work if I come right out and say what it is.

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

Nooooooo, kill him because of 25, kill him because of 37, kill him because of 65 even, kill him because he's done even less than you have.
Not because you can't read him, that's stupid.

And let me break this down, since people are going to be like" but why do you think they're scummy??"
25 is scummy because NS has been around long enough to know that people sometimes do really random stuff D1. This should not confuse him, and I feel like he's playing the "I don't know anything" card early on with it.
37 is scummy because it is completely unhelpful to Town and because he caved to pressure rather than make a fuss.
65 is a little bit scummy just in the way he reacts to Cub; that vote had been on him since the first page and he chose not to address it til then?
Active lurking is rather scummy for obvious reasons.

That's a bit better, but 65 is null as hell.

I

miss things on my first readthrough, therefore I know empirically that other players do the same. NS being a vet doesn't make him immune to that. Maybe he didn't think it was as important the first time through.

[Cub Daigoro]

Well, Safety's my strongest scumread, as evinced by my vote.

When you placed that vote, you said you liked my argument and might be sheeping me. Can you summarize what you liked about my argument?

[Belisarius]

Primarily pointing out that he was looking for "scumbuddies" for a policy lynch, which is a hardcore non sequitur.

[Belisarius]

Also, I didn't say I might be sheeping, I said I

was

sheeping but I wasn't sure who. That really should have drawn more fire, people.

[Cub Daigoro]

Well you said you weren't sure if you were sheeping me or {somebody... I forget who at the moment and it doesn't matter just now} so it might be me or it might be the other person.

IDK, seemed like obvious bait to me. Not that surprised no one really jumped on it.

[Cub Daigoro]

No wonder I couldn't remember who the other person was. Here's his entire ISO:

vote: SafetyDance

Here's why:

Hang on, why FOS instead of putting you're vote there? In fact, why would you not, unless you're actually worried about a wagon forming and not wanting to vote your scum buddy

In this post SafetyDance definitively attributes an action that clearly has the potential for town motivations solely to scum motivations and uses it to justify a vote. In my experience this is a pretty slam dunk tell, so I'm very confident here relative to the length and depth of the game so far. That he did it while already having what he considers a legitimate vote out is just a bonus.

More from me later, I'm exhausted and my eyes are glazing over trying to focus on anything.

Maybe he's still sleeping.

[Belisarius]

Maybe he's still sleeping.

It's been almost 3 days, sounds about right for a messiah.