MINI 1423 Dark Souls: Prepare to die....YOU DIED

[VP Baltar]

Now your asking me if he's bussing you?
I doubt it.
1. This is how he plays as town. it comes across as scummy to me, but like 4 recent games in a row I can say town for now.
2. He could have left his vote on me at L-1 until I was hammered. Unless you think he's scum trying to hold out to lynch a PR, there's no scum reason to do so.

I'm asking, if by your poor logic, it makes him scum. You say no because

meta

. How convenient.

[VP Baltar]

PV, do you know what active lurking is? Are you familiar with the term and what that means? Serious question.

[VP Baltar]

Because scum make a focused effort to dismantle their wagons if they get too serious. It's hard to lynch scum on Day 1 because it's so easy for them to WIFOM their way out of the noose. Conversely, when a townie is being run up, there aren't multiple players banding together to divert the wagon and its much easier to make happen.

By your logic, anytime someone is voted to L-1, if they are NOT subsequently lynched, they're scum?

And since a sum of 2 people unvoted me, who exactly is diverting what?

This doesn't follow at all and is blatant strawmanning. I'll consider that you conceding I'm right on it.

[VP Baltar]

But the sum of your reads seem to be Ice is scum with me because he's not voting me.

No, wrong again. Iec is scum because he very conspicuously avoided mentioning you at all when your wagon was the center of attention, and didn't finally make mention of you or take a stance until I outright asked him to. Avoiding discussing one of the biggest points of the day...that's a scumtell for sure. It shows a desire to avoid getting tangled in confrontation.

[PeregrineV]

PV, do you know what active lurking is? Are you familiar with the term and what that means? Serious question.

As far as I know, it amounts to intentionally keeping your posting down to keep in the game while playing as little as possible.

[Iecerint]

Peregrine's wagon was a quickwagon -- it wasn't an ongoing dialectic, and it didn't have reasoning to it that I could see, except for after the fact.

Examples of players on whom a dialectic has occurred: TigerZone, FourTrouble, RestFermata.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Considering you mis-read everything apparently it doesn't surprise me that you didn't get this either. I fundamentally agree with VPB, but the way you were trying to pretend to be active was by putting it on other players to stir your activity "I'm willing to talk if you are" so that if/when you didn't post you could just claim you weren't being engaged by others and it's their fault and not your own. It's a classic scum move because it makes you seem open and involved without actually being so.

So my asking "why are you voting me" wasn't really to find out why they were voting me, but to get them to talk, and if they didn't I could just claim "I wasn't being engaged"?
I disagree. I wanted to know why people were voting me. It serves two causes. One, I see if it's town motivated or not. Two, when I flip, it's easier to use my death for town to find scum when I'm gone.
Human had a reason, even though I think it's dumb.
You and VP came up with reasons after the fact, and after I claimed.
Others with no reason unvoted, except for OneWhoKnocks, who seems to be sheeping VP.

Complete bullshit, A) your time sequence is completely wrong because you weren't asking "why are you voting for me" at that point I've been referencing. And B) In my 199 I reference a very specific thing, you can argue I didn't make my reasons public but I very clearly had a reason.

[Iecerint]

You can argue I didn't make my reasons public but I very clearly had a reason.

[PeregrineV]

Because scum make a focused effort to dismantle their wagons if they get too serious. It's hard to lynch scum on Day 1 because it's so easy for them to WIFOM their way out of the noose. Conversely, when a townie is being run up, there aren't multiple players banding together to divert the wagon and its much easier to make happen.

By your logic, anytime someone is voted to L-1, if they are NOT subsequently lynched, they're scum?

And since a sum of 2 people unvoted me, who exactly is diverting what?

This doesn't follow at all and is blatant strawmanning. I'll consider that you conceding I'm right on it.

No.
Let's break down what you said. If it seems to be made of straw then maybe it is.

Because scum make a focused effort to dismantle their wagons if they get too serious.

This says that town does not make a focused effort to dismantle their wagons. I disagree, as will anyone who has played for any length of time.

It's hard to lynch scum on Day 1 because it's so easy for them to WIFOM their way out of the noose.

Since it's day one, and WIFOM assumes an increased amount of knowledge that is not available because it's day1, I disagree.
In your attempt to apply it to me, I didn't claim some PR or some such, so there's no "Is he or isn't he?" type stuff, which is the trademark of WIFOM arguments. I merely gave my role.

Conversely, when a townie is being run up, there aren't multiple players banding together to divert the wagon and its much easier to make happen.

This is really going to depend on a number of factors. If you have a strong enough read on a player you can "divert" the wagon in a few ways, depending on the strength of your town read. It may be strong enough to fight for someone's life, strong enough to vote someone else instead, or they may be null so you do nothing or vote them.
The opposite of this statement is that scum always attempt to divert scum wagons. So, if you think I'm scum, who is diverting my wagon?

[chkflip]

You see that? Another discredit. Tunneling? You're not the only person I'm looking at, nor are you the only person I've voted since replacing in. Moot point. I'll admit that you didn't say the VT thing I misread that from another post, but take a seat for a second. What if he's not lying and that's how all the VT claims are going to be in this game? Do we lynch all of them on the basis that they might be lying? No, of course not. You're tunneling, sir. Not me. And justifying it with "well the wagon with dismantle if I don't." YOU FUCKING ADMITTED TO TUNNELING AND ARE TRYING TO LOOK TOWN FOR IT.

Eat rope.

[Iecerint]

Peregrine's case is special because he should not have been voted up so quickly and with such poor/"private" reasoning IMO.

[Sotty7]

"Well this is a surprise. I get few visitors, save for ghosts."

16th vote count of Day one

TheOneWhoKnocks: 4 (Nachomamma8, leviathan93, Iecerint, Empking)
PeregrineV: 4 (Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Human Destroyer, TheOneWhoKnocks)

Human Destroyer: 2 (FourTrouble, RestFermata)
VP Baltar: 2 (chkflip, PeregrineV)
Debonair Danny DiPietro: 1 (JasonT1981)

Not voting:

No one

With

13

players alive it takes

7

to lynch

DEADLINE:

(expired on 2013-03-07 21:00:00)

[jasonT1981]

post tomorrow prob when I am not kinda high on my meds lol

[RestFermata]

I will continue to post, but I have to say that I 100% agree with FT about HD's posts seeming forced. I don't know what it is that I'm picking up on, but I'm glad someone else sees it too.

I do not want to lynch PV today. I have like, a 60% townread on him, so nothing overwhelming, but yeah. I'm not sure I agree that the fact that the wagon dismantled quickly is a tell about PV's alignment. If I were scumbuddies with PV and I were on his wagon, I would still be bussing him right now. WIFOM, I know, but there is a point where one glass of wine is actually preferable to the other. I wouldn't want to be the one to unvote my scumbuddy for a VT claim. So if PV is indeed scum I would look for other scum among HD or DDD, probably HD. I don't think there is much of a chance that VPB is scum. He, FT, lev, and Iec are my townreads of the day. As for TheOneWhoKnocks I really don't know what it says about him that he voted who DDD told him to. It's certainly not what I would do as scum or town so I'm a little perplexed by it. I didn't have much of an opinion on SK either, so he goes in the neutral pile for the moment.

I don't really understand the chkflip wagon. I was pretty sure tiger was town and chkflip hasn't really done anything terribly scummy to make me want to throw all of that away.

[Empking]

I'm not sure I agree that the fact that the wagon dismantled quickly is a tell about PV's alignment.

The wagon didn't dismantle quickly. Its just Nacho and someone else off it, isn't it.

[Empking]

I'm not sure I agree that the fact that the wagon dismantled quickly is a tell about PV's alignment.

The wagon didn't dismantle quickly. Its just Nacho and someone else off it, isn't it.

[RestFermata]

jason was going to hammer. lev was willing to hammer. I was willing to hammer. We may not have been "officially" on his wagon, but there were 3 players who were willing to see him lynched that are no longer pushing for the same.

[Empking]

jason was going to hammer. lev was willing to hammer. I was willing to hammer. We may not have been "officially" on his wagon, but there were 3 players who were willing to see him lynched that are no longer pushing for the same.

I suppose that's right. Yeah, i can see why the e4asy leaving of that feeling is scummy.

[RestFermata]

I think if I were mafia, and PV were my partner, and we all had safeclaims, I would probably not be jumping off of my partner because he used his safeclaim. Then again, not everyone is like me.

[RestFermata]

Thankfully.

[RestFermata]

Oh, and add jason to my list of favorite town reads for the day.

[FourTrouble]

I don't really understand the chkflip wagon. I was pretty sure tiger was town and chkflip hasn't really done anything terribly scummy to make me want to throw all of that away.

What chkflip wagon you talking about?

[VP Baltar]

Weren't some people making it seem like there are two scum in this game? I was looking back over the OP and rules, and I'm not seeing where it states that. I could be missing it. Anyone know where this info came from?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You can argue I didn't make my reasons public but I very clearly had a reason.

What, are you suggesting that I referenced a specific game but what bluffing about there being any significance. Why would I do that, especially when someone in this game was obviously in that game?

[jasonT1981]

I have sat back the past day, trying to think about it. I just don't see the VT role PM's being different to other VT role PMs.

I know Zach made this mistake off site a good few years ago, I know it was Sotty caught me on the wording of the VT Role PM in that game. given they are both mod and set up designers.. I don't see the role PMs reading differently from VT role to VT role.

PereV