MINI 1423 Dark Souls: Prepare to die....YOU DIED

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I hate to do this kind of thing, but clearly my message is getting lost in all this back and forth. I need to point out just how much PV is active lurking and not legitimately scumhunting in this thread. I'm going to give you a (very) brief analysis of his posts so everyone can clearly see how much he's coasting this game. Post numbers are chronologically by iso and I'll separate them into three easy to follow categories. I'll attempt to be as unbiased as possible here. It'd be best if someone else did this post, but I don't think anyone has the initiative regarding this point, so here we go:

Standard banter (null):
1- opening post
6 -vla
18 - demands DDD give reasons why he's scum
19 - vla
25 - claims VT
26 - answers claim question
27 - ""
28 - quotes Iec's defense of him! null in terms of this analysis, but let it stand on the record if PV is lynched and flips scum
29 - answers claim question
30 - ""
42 - explains why he wasn't posting. claims he was busy with other games
50 - gives game roundup for Ms Marangel

Posts with little to no active scumhunting:
3 - talks about SK self vote without taking a stance. follows tiger zone general opinion
5 - starts to talk theory about SK self vote more, still no solid position given. IIOA
7 - votes rest for no reason
8 - gives townreads for no reason
9 - says hes not about fluff, provides no content
10 - unvotes rest, says he doesnt' remember why he voted
11 - says he'll reread the thread later
12 - adds rest to town list, votes SK... no reasoning given
13- says tiger is town again based upon earlier (my gambit). this is a super safe position to take since essentially everyone agreed
14 - explains vote on SK as being because he's not contributing enough...how does this not apply to several people?
15- response to my joking post that he didn't get
16- cites "meta" as his reasons for two town reads, "town mindset" for the other two. Couldn't be any more vague to avoid scrutiny
20 - says he's vote SK because he has enough town reads and he'd like to "get a grip on a null player" What? He said SK wasn't contributing enough above and that's why he's voting him. If you're voting a null player for that, you're just not trying to scumhunt, I'm sorry.
21 - says he'll analyze his wagon. complains because people aren't making cases on him.
22 - defends why he's been active elsewhere and not this thread
24 - benefit of the doubt once is fine (see post 23). repeatedly bitching about people not making cases is simply being lazy and not scumhunting.
31 - again complains people aren't making a full out case against him
32 - calls Rest town for "nature of her posts." explains SK vote as being "a better vote" (even though he was a null player). Immediately says HD's reasoning is invalid because he didn't state it with his vote. "cart before the horse." by this logic, no one's reasoning can be valid because he said everyone on his wagon was voting him for no reason. This is a classic scum tactic to avoid having to take any kind of offense. It's him playing the victim and passing it off as legitimate scumhunting, which it's not.
33 - agrees with chkflip, says Empking must be lynched before lylo, regardless of his alignment.
35 - blatant OMGUS me. Says I never gave reasoning for voting him (though there was a reason in my vote post. I said he was intentionally not posting, ie lurking, as I've stood by. Additionally, and you'll see this later, any reasoning given for voting him is automatically invalid because it wasn't given with the initial vote! cart before the horse, etc.)
36 - flippant comment and tells HD to vote me because he doesn't need a reason, which is simply him taking a pissy defense of his OMGUS
37 - +1 to an Iec post
38 - response to my very detailed analysis of his play all game. Gives lame excuse for his Rest flop, falsely states he's posting as much as me and pulls the same "cart before the horse" BS he did above. zero analysis, plenty o' scum whining.
39 - says I didn't engage with him, therefore, he's the victim of big bad VP
40 - completely misreps me as saying that anytime someone is voted to L-1 and they aren't lynched, they must be scum
41 - misreps DDD
43 - answers my questions, says my reasoning for voting him "doesn't really fly"
44 - doesn't give an answer to my asking him why he's voting me, which is something he's demanding from others. Not scumhunting, but total double standard!
45 - more answering my questions and saying I never gave reasons for voting him...except I already did several posts ago.
47 - answers my question
48 - huge ass misrep of what I said, which no one else seemed ot have trouble following
49 - continued misrep
51 - pointless reply
52 - repeats a stupid question he asked before that the answer should have been obvious to, but I answered anyway out of the kindness of my heart!
53 - pontificates more on his misrep about the scum banding together post I made. this is like 4 posts now where he continues. How does a town player not get it at this point?


Posts with active scumhunting:
2- votes 4trouble
4- engages 4 trouble
17 - asks HD who his town reads are
23 - I hate to even call this scumhunting, but I said I would be unbiased. Quotes votes on his wagon and says no reasons were given ( even though mine clearly had a reason in the voting post and DDD was obvious as well).
34 - says DDD has no right to vote him, which is scummy. asks ddd why he thinks Jason is town, so I'll give him this one.
46 - again complaining no one is giving reasons, but I'll give him scumhunting points for a weak (and inaccurate) analysis of his wagon.
54- misreps me again and says that no matter what he posts, I call it scummy. Playing the victim once more, but hey what the hell, let's pretend he's actually "scumhunting" me this way. I'll give it to him.

Well there you go, there's all his posts. Judge for yourself. Iso him and read along in numerical order, see if I"m wrong. (sorry about the posts being one number off...forget isos start at zero until I got too far along to retype all the numbers). I'm sure you'll disagree with me on some points because I know I have a bias in thinking he's scum, but that's simply because he's so damn scummy. I stand by my statement that he's been active lurking a majority of the game, and this analysis shows that pretty clearly. 2 days left, please lynch this scumbag.

[VP Baltar]

notice how much of the time he's in the defensive position. Shit, that's a sexy ass post. Even I didn't see the full scope of his active lurking. Lynch PV now for great justice.

[chkflip]

Mega IIOA post, but I'll give it a shot and get back to you.

[VP Baltar]

I think the real question all of this comes down to is: do you believe a town player would post that much while providing that little analysis of play throughout the game? I don't believe that's true. I believe town players actively try to look at the situation around them and push the conversation forward with probing analysis. That's the nature of being town, you are TRYING to find scum.

Scum, on the other hand, are not trying to find scum. They fall back into defensive positions and are reactive rather than active. That's the case with PV in my personal opinion.

pedit - such a bullshit response to something you admit to having not read. Just don't bother. You can keep your vote on me. I don't really care where you are voting chkflip.

[chkflip]

LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

[Ms Marangal]

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

[FourTrouble]

So, from a townBP mindset, everyone else was scumhunting, but I was not?
So, I'm scum, and VP voted for me. That's cool.
But, when I looked at the six votes on me, townBP immediately saw that as a scum move, because scum try to stay alive, but town do not.
When I claimed, townBP saw my VT claim as scum, or didn't care, or whatever. That's fine.
However, every post I make he tries to reinforce his view that I'm scum regardless of what I actually say and without responding to it. To me, that's tunneling. And I can't think of any town reason day1 to tunnel.

And to ask you, since I don't see it quite as clearly as you, how has BP been scumhunting? What scum has he located that he hasn't called scum through some "association" with me?

You're still not representing VP accurately. The mistake you're making is the assumption that you can defend yourself by telling VP - and everyone else voting for you - that they're wrong to vote for you because of so-and-so reason. If you're town, what you need to do is hunt for scum instead of sitting around doing nothing but defending yourself. Your chain of logic in your defense just misrepresents what VP is saying either way. He's calling you scum because you aren't scumhunting. The rest of his posts are about showing that your other actions make sense from a scum point of view, not that they themselves are reasons to think you are scum. There is a difference here that you're blurring, and that's why your vote on VP is so bad.

To answer your question, VP has done more than enough scumhunting. He has some strong townreads (some of which I don't necessarily agree with but understand where he's coming from), and his tell on Iecerint applies regardless of your affiliation as far as I'm concerned so no it's not just in association to you, and the fact he's tunneling on you makes sense given the way you've responded to his pressure.

I myself can't quite explain why but I have a gut feeling you are town. I really shouldn't, logically speaking you are obviously pretty scummy. I've been trying to understand your thought process because I was hoping maybe you'll reveal something towny for me to latch onto. So far, nothing to see here and you still aren't even scumhunting, and that's a pretty bad sign.

[FourTrouble]

LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

Both of these votes are pretty bad. I mean, how do you go from voting for a guy to sheeping that guy?

[chkflip]

Which is worse and why?

[Sotty7]

You, you.
Give me warm. Give me soft.

19th vote count of Day one

PeregrineV: 5 (Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Human Destroyer, chkflip, Ms Marangal)

Ms Margangal: 4 (Nachomamma8, leviathan93, Iecerint, Empking)
Human Destroyer: 2 (FourTrouble, RestFermata)
VP Baltar: 1 (PeregrineV)
Debonair Danny DiPietro: 1 (JasonT1981)

Not voting:

No one

With

13

players alive it takes

7

to lynch

DEADLINE:

(expired on 2013-03-07 21:00:00)

[VP Baltar]

Debonair Danny DiPietro: 1 (JasonT1981)

Seriously, what the hell is this about Jason. You've been very lazy this game too. idgi

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Debonair Danny DiPietro: 1 (JasonT1981)

Seriously, what the hell is this about Jason. You've been very lazy this game too. idgi

Seriously, if I didn't think he was town I'd be all up in his grill because that vote just sitting there is terrible.

[Nachomamma8]

Prod dodge, content after school

HEY ACTIVE LURKER
I'M IN LOVE WITH YOUR STYLE

His behavior after the Peregrine wagon (e.g., shift to theory-reasons to lynch claimed VT on whom there is not a very compelling case) is something that I personally only do as scum.

this is also not that compelling of a case
but i'm not holding it against you just yet

From what I can see, your VT Claim is the main thing that's gotten you off the hook, the specificity of it more so

but I'm VT, so if I claim, would that make the wagon Knock received Disappear as well?

oh god fuck no
early claims like this are absolutely terrible and strong, strong newbscum tells
especially when marangal is a smart enough girl to keep her role under wraps for a little while first

I'm not following town mindset here, and other then Lurking I can't figure out what my two predecessors have done, nor can I find anything of use from either of them.

amished's ghost is turning in his grave right now

Coincidentally, I don't think you are as scummy as everyone else thinks you are

awww what sweet buddying

For the record, I'm not convinced PV is scum but voting VP instead is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I've ever seen. The two cases against them can't even be compared: PV has effectively done no scumhunting, whereas VP has been at the forefront of discussion and everything he has said makes perfect sense from a town point of view. The votes on VP are retarded.

pretty much

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

this post is absolutely horrible
this flip flop comes so quickly, and the distancing from the townread is terrible, terrible, terrible

[Nachomamma8]

sorry VP, I really am.
i still don't think peregrine is scum. he's been active lurking, but the fact that he's been continuously willing to dance with you while the TOWK slot has been opportunistic as all hell and trying to secure a lynch either way solidifies my vote and i just can't lynch PV in good conscience.

[Nachomamma8]

HD is scum as fuck, with Iecerint as scum #3 and Empking as a distinct possibility.

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler: VP Super Case on me

Ok, I hate to do this kind of thing, but clearly my message is getting lost in all this back and forth. I need to point out just how much PV is active lurking and not legitimately scumhunting in this thread. I'm going to give you a (very) brief analysis of his posts so everyone can clearly see how much he's coasting this game. Post numbers are chronologically by iso and I'll separate them into three easy to follow categories. I'll attempt to be as unbiased as possible here. It'd be best if someone else did this post, but I don't think anyone has the initiative regarding this point, so here we go:

Standard banter (null):
1- opening post
6 -vla
18 - demands DDD give reasons why he's scum
19 - vla
25 - claims VT
26 - answers claim question
27 - ""
28 - quotes Iec's defense of him! null in terms of this analysis, but let it stand on the record if PV is lynched and flips scum
29 - answers claim question
30 - ""
42 - explains why he wasn't posting. claims he was busy with other games
50 - gives game roundup for Ms Marangel

Posts with little to no active scumhunting:
3 - talks about SK self vote without taking a stance. follows tiger zone general opinion
5 - starts to talk theory about SK self vote more, still no solid position given. IIOA
7 - votes rest for no reason
8 - gives townreads for no reason
9 - says hes not about fluff, provides no content
10 - unvotes rest, says he doesnt' remember why he voted
11 - says he'll reread the thread later
12 - adds rest to town list, votes SK... no reasoning given
13- says tiger is town again based upon earlier (my gambit). this is a super safe position to take since essentially everyone agreed
14 - explains vote on SK as being because he's not contributing enough...how does this not apply to several people?
15- response to my joking post that he didn't get
16- cites "meta" as his reasons for two town reads, "town mindset" for the other two. Couldn't be any more vague to avoid scrutiny
20 - says he's vote SK because he has enough town reads and he'd like to "get a grip on a null player" What? He said SK wasn't contributing enough above and that's why he's voting him. If you're voting a null player for that, you're just not trying to scumhunt, I'm sorry.
21 - says he'll analyze his wagon. complains because people aren't making cases on him.
22 - defends why he's been active elsewhere and not this thread
24 - benefit of the doubt once is fine (see post 23). repeatedly bitching about people not making cases is simply being lazy and not scumhunting.
31 - again complains people aren't making a full out case against him
32 - calls Rest town for "nature of her posts." explains SK vote as being "a better vote" (even though he was a null player). Immediately says HD's reasoning is invalid because he didn't state it with his vote. "cart before the horse." by this logic, no one's reasoning can be valid because he said everyone on his wagon was voting him for no reason. This is a classic scum tactic to avoid having to take any kind of offense. It's him playing the victim and passing it off as legitimate scumhunting, which it's not.
33 - agrees with chkflip, says Empking must be lynched before lylo, regardless of his alignment.
35 - blatant OMGUS me. Says I never gave reasoning for voting him (though there was a reason in my vote post. I said he was intentionally not posting, ie lurking, as I've stood by. Additionally, and you'll see this later, any reasoning given for voting him is automatically invalid because it wasn't given with the initial vote! cart before the horse, etc.)
36 - flippant comment and tells HD to vote me because he doesn't need a reason, which is simply him taking a pissy defense of his OMGUS
37 - +1 to an Iec post
38 - response to my very detailed analysis of his play all game. Gives lame excuse for his Rest flop, falsely states he's posting as much as me and pulls the same "cart before the horse" BS he did above. zero analysis, plenty o' scum whining.
39 - says I didn't engage with him, therefore, he's the victim of big bad VP
40 - completely misreps me as saying that anytime someone is voted to L-1 and they aren't lynched, they must be scum
41 - misreps DDD
43 - answers my questions, says my reasoning for voting him "doesn't really fly"
44 - doesn't give an answer to my asking him why he's voting me, which is something he's demanding from others. Not scumhunting, but total double standard!
45 - more answering my questions and saying I never gave reasons for voting him...except I already did several posts ago.
47 - answers my question
48 - huge ass misrep of what I said, which no one else seemed ot have trouble following
49 - continued misrep
51 - pointless reply
52 - repeats a stupid question he asked before that the answer should have been obvious to, but I answered anyway out of the kindness of my heart!
53 - pontificates more on his misrep about the scum banding together post I made. this is like 4 posts now where he continues. How does a town player not get it at this point?


Posts with active scumhunting:
2- votes 4trouble
4- engages 4 trouble
17 - asks HD who his town reads are
23 - I hate to even call this scumhunting, but I said I would be unbiased. Quotes votes on his wagon and says no reasons were given ( even though mine clearly had a reason in the voting post and DDD was obvious as well).
34 - says DDD has no right to vote him, which is scummy. asks ddd why he thinks Jason is town, so I'll give him this one.
46 - again complaining no one is giving reasons, but I'll give him scumhunting points for a weak (and inaccurate) analysis of his wagon.
54- misreps me again and says that no matter what he posts, I call it scummy. Playing the victim once more, but hey what the hell, let's pretend he's actually "scumhunting" me this way. I'll give it to him.

Well there you go, there's all his posts. Judge for yourself. Iso him and read along in numerical order, see if I"m wrong. (sorry about the posts being one number off...forget isos start at zero until I got too far along to retype all the numbers). I'm sure you'll disagree with me on some points because I know I have a bias in thinking he's scum, but that's simply because he's so damn scummy. I stand by my statement that he's been active lurking a majority of the game, and this analysis shows that pretty clearly. 2 days left, please lynch this scumbag.

If you don't have time to read it, here's the summary.

Please for all that is good, actually read Peregrine's posts. I know, I know. It's intimidating because there are a lot of them and he writes a fair amount from time to time. But do your favor and at least skim them. Get the gist of what he's saying. And then freaking lynch the dude.

I suppose I could go and refute each "unbiased" translation, but nah. I could also translate each BP post, but I've been doing that and no one sees it but me, so nah. I have a work deadline Friday and need to put time towards that. Job is good to keep and stuff. If I finish early, I'll come point out his flaws and inconsistencies in great detail.

Either way, I'll leave my final reads for future days.

[jasonT1981]

2 days to deadline, we need to decide between Ms Margangal and PereV and something will have to shift

[Nachomamma8]

PEREGRINE FUCKING VOTE THE COUNTERWAGON

[jasonT1981]

Yea, the VPB wagon is a no go, right now PereV vote is wasted.

[Nachomamma8]

(also that DDD vote is wasted)

[Ms Marangal]

LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

Both of these votes are pretty bad. I mean, how do you go from voting for a guy to sheeping that guy?

Yes, I know

Prod dodge, content after school

HEY ACTIVE LURKER
I'M IN LOVE WITH YOUR STYLE

His behavior after the Peregrine wagon (e.g., shift to theory-reasons to lynch claimed VT on whom there is not a very compelling case) is something that I personally only do as scum.

this is also not that compelling of a case
but i'm not holding it against you just yet

From what I can see, your VT Claim is the main thing that's gotten you off the hook, the specificity of it more so

but I'm VT, so if I claim, would that make the wagon Knock received Disappear as well?

oh god fuck no
early claims like this are absolutely terrible and strong, strong newbscum tells
especially when marangal is a smart enough girl to keep her role under wraps for a little while first

I'm not following town mindset here, and other then Lurking I can't figure out what my two predecessors have done, nor can I find anything of use from either of them.

amished's ghost is turning in his grave right now

Coincidentally, I don't think you are as scummy as everyone else thinks you are

awww what sweet buddying

For the record, I'm not convinced PV is scum but voting VP instead is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I've ever seen. The two cases against them can't even be compared: PV has effectively done no scumhunting, whereas VP has been at the forefront of discussion and everything he has said makes perfect sense from a town point of view. The votes on VP are retarded.

pretty much

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

this post is absolutely horrible
this flip flop comes so quickly, and the distancing from the townread is terrible, terrible, terrible

Yes, I know

but what I also know is that we are crazy close to deadline
and the concept that I have of this game so far is minimal
but of the little I do know of the game
SaintKerrigan is town, TheOneWhoKnocks Was town
I know that SaintKerrigan did a self-voting Gambit
and PeregrineV was one of the people who tagged onto that gambit
Because I know SK was town
I can trust that it was a fishing move to fish out scum
I had asked someone to feed me the information of the game so far
the first to comply?
Peregrine
Everyone else was busy scumhunting
What does that mean?
it could probably mean that PV was scum and was trying to find a way to seem active.
it also tells me that PV is seemingly unconcerned about the time constraint that we are in, though I really can't see why he wouldn't be.


BTW Nacho, I'm better at being scum
then I am at being town
so those strong noobscum tells Probably don't apply

PEdit:

if you guys want to get rid of me then so be it, but I would like for it to be otherwise

[Ms Marangal]

LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

Both of these votes are pretty bad. I mean, how do you go from voting for a guy to sheeping that guy?

Yes, I know

Prod dodge, content after school

HEY ACTIVE LURKER
I'M IN LOVE WITH YOUR STYLE

His behavior after the Peregrine wagon (e.g., shift to theory-reasons to lynch claimed VT on whom there is not a very compelling case) is something that I personally only do as scum.

this is also not that compelling of a case
but i'm not holding it against you just yet

From what I can see, your VT Claim is the main thing that's gotten you off the hook, the specificity of it more so

but I'm VT, so if I claim, would that make the wagon Knock received Disappear as well?

oh god fuck no
early claims like this are absolutely terrible and strong, strong newbscum tells
especially when marangal is a smart enough girl to keep her role under wraps for a little while first

I'm not following town mindset here, and other then Lurking I can't figure out what my two predecessors have done, nor can I find anything of use from either of them.

amished's ghost is turning in his grave right now

Coincidentally, I don't think you are as scummy as everyone else thinks you are

awww what sweet buddying

For the record, I'm not convinced PV is scum but voting VP instead is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I've ever seen. The two cases against them can't even be compared: PV has effectively done no scumhunting, whereas VP has been at the forefront of discussion and everything he has said makes perfect sense from a town point of view. The votes on VP are retarded.

pretty much

Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

this post is absolutely horrible
this flip flop comes so quickly, and the distancing from the townread is terrible, terrible, terrible

Yes, I know

but what I also know is that we are crazy close to deadline
and the concept that I have of this game so far is minimal
but of the little I do know of the game
SaintKerrigan is town, TheOneWhoKnocks Was town
I know that SaintKerrigan did a self-voting Gambit
and PeregrineV was one of the people who tagged onto that gambit
Because I know SK was town
I can trust that it was a fishing move to fish out scum
I had asked someone to feed me the information of the game so far
the first to comply?
Peregrine
Everyone else was busy scumhunting
What does that mean?
it could probably mean that PV was scum and was trying to find a way to seem active.
it also tells me that PV is seemingly unconcerned about the time constraint that we are in, though I really can't see why he wouldn't be.


BTW Nacho, I'm better at being scum
then I am at being town
so those strong noobscum tells Probably don't apply

PEdit:

if you guys want to get rid of me then so be it, but I would like for it to be otherwise

[jasonT1981]

those walls...... urgh

[Nachomamma8]

those walls...... urgh

vote them!

[jasonT1981]

I am happier on PereV