Newbie 1339 - Game Over! (Scum Win)

[RandomYoshi]

If I was sheeping in my 216, could you point out where I was sheeping?

[Nachomamma8]

not sheeping, following along with my flow.

[Varsoon]

yeah, i see this too.
do you think he'd be more cautious of sheeping as scum if he was already called out for it once?

I think he should be, but just because he isn't doesn't make me any less suspicious.
You'd think that, as town, if you were called out for doing something scummy, you'd try to avoid doing that kind of thing, as well.

[RandomYoshi]

I don't get this. If someone does a really scummy move like he did (voting no lynch on Day 1), I don't understand why only one or two players would vote the aforementioned someone who voted no lynch (whose reasoning was, in my opinion, absurd). And, when more issues with that vote have been taken up, it's only natural that at least someone else would join the bandwagon.

You'd think that, as town, if you were called out for doing something scummy, you'd try to avoid doing that kind of thing, as well.

If you're Town and you are called out on doing something scummy, then you would rather try to explain your actions to make them seem less scummy and not immediately stop with the scummy things without explaining your actions. Explaining your actions beats stopping with them abruptly tenfold.

[Varsoon]

Except, regardless of explaination, it doesn't change the fact you continued to do those actions.

Regardless, I think that Fuzzy's NoLynch is a definite indicator that he's scum, but I'll hold my vote until he's L minus 1 or 2 and let him make a case.

[fuzzybutternut]

Are we positive we have scum in this game?

Why are you trying to derail Town from scumhunting? Obviously, there's Scum. In fact, there are two of them.

Not necessarily. Wanna see some games where it happened? Meta me.

You have been in four or five games. In my opinion, that's not enough for building a meta case of somebody — and, unless you have literally hundreds of games to work with, and the player you're reading is somewhat predictable, you can kiss goodbye to that sweet meta case defending your status as Town.

Someone claimed a PR, they were lynched, they flipped said PR. Town is it's own worst enemy sometimes.

I am interpreting this as you further wanting to seed plants of confusion in Town's mind. Why would you state that "Town is its worst enemy sometimes"?

*shrug* it's worked before, that's all I'm saying.

Please give me links to at least one hundred games that it has worked without anyone whining about the massive WIFOM status that analysing NKs has. Yeah, you won't find that many of those.

Stats mean nothing to me, as they are rarely 100% accurate, and you're basing stats off 2 games, when thousands of games have been on this site.

The statistics that are being talked about are based off of more than 850 games. They indeed have some merits.

Again, stats mean nothing to me.

Things based in facts mean nothing to you? What is this bullshit?

[/unvote]Approximately Normal Guy[/unvote]
[/vote]fuzzybutternut[/vote]

1.) I wasn't trying to derail anyone from anything. I was stating the fact that I have no idea who scum is this game.
2.)4 games is definitely enough to gain a meta read from someone. I do it all the time, and, 9 times out of 10, I find patterns in everything they do.
3.)lolwut? Planting seeds in towns mind? Was a seed planted in your mind? No? You must be scum then. I was stating a fact. "Statistically speaking" town kills off more town than it does scum.
4.)Lol, no shit I won't find 100 games where it's worked. I never said it was guaranteed to work, just that it *does* work.
5&6.) It's not bullshit. It's preference. Again, stat's are

Never

100% correct, and you're stupid if you think they are. AP Statistics teaches you a lot. Rule #1-Never make a case based on stats alone. Seriously, that's just stupid.

Anyone else who thinks I'm scum because I don't believe in stats-LOL.
That's truly laughable.

[Varsoon]

Fuzzy, you're so much more composed when you aren't defending yourself.

[fuzzybutternut]

What does that mean, exactly?

[Varsoon]

It's a pretty straightforward sentence. I'll use your line of response though,
Go read it again and figure it out.

Why do you log in on hidden mode?

[fuzzybutternut]

How the hell do you log on "hidden"?
And I still don't know what you mean.

[Varsoon]

Oh, no, it's showing you now. Nevermind that last bit. :3

[kuror0]

VOTE: Fuzzy

This sets him at L-1

, no one hammers yet.

You say you don't know who the scums are, but you haven't tried anything to find them. You have just been standing there defending a ridiculous suggestion/stance against everybody, and yet you haven't made a single conclusion from the wagon on you. Playing purely on the defense is not something I would expect from a town. So now that you are at L-1, perhaps it is time to try to be useful?

[fuzzybutternut]

Some things are better kept to yourself, kuror0. Say I was to explain everything right now. That'd surely cause trouble for us.
I will, however, say this. I'm becoming more and more set on Varsoon being scum, again. His posts have been reading off to me for a while.
Would you like a claim?

[Nachomamma8]

Say I was to explain everything right now. That'd surely cause trouble for us.

No. That's what we're asking you to do because right now there is either a breakdown in communication or you are scum as fuck. I want a claim much less than I want an explanation.

[fuzzybutternut]

My explanations include who I believe drew what roles, and therefore will not post them, as I actually want to win this game. I'm a scummy person, but I do actually hold value to this game.
I'll claim, if I must, though I truly don't have a spectacular role in this game.
VT. That's it. Lynch me if you want, but you reap what you sow.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: RandomYoshi

When I ask you to explain, I want you to explain your actions. I want you to explain why you find Varsoon scum, why you find Varsoon town, why you find Varsoon scum again. Making moves on information that you are completely ignorant of (i.e. specific roles) is foolish and not something you should be doing before you can effectively pick out scum and effectively find power role tells. Voting No Lynch is not an optimal move; no lynching Day 1 is a very shitty move. You can say statistics can't prove things with certainty; that is completely true. What they do pick up on is patterns. And when these patterns are backed up by arguments and personal experience, generally it's good to pick up on that and listen to what people have to say.

Scumhunt. You reap what you sow, and you are planting nothing. You are drawing unnecessary attention to yourself which is good and well for reactions, but I don't want to spend a day lynching you when I could lynch a solid scum suspect. Place a vote down, pursue them as scum. Stop being useless.

[fuzzybutternut]

I'll put it as this: My interactions with him, though at first giving me newb town vibe, have shifted, mainly due to his sudden change of heart on me. He stated that he believed I was town, but as soon as another point came up, he was quick to jump onto it.
The same goes with Yoshi.

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 1.3

Varsoon (0) -
fuzzybutternut (3) - Nobody Special, RandomYoshi, kuror0
Approximately Normal Guy (0) -
Nabber (0) -
kitiekatt (1) - Nabber
RandomYoshi (2) - Varsoon, Nachomamma8
kuror0 (1) - kitiekatt
Nobody Special (1) - Approximately Normal Guy
Nachomamma8 (0) -

No Lynch (1) - fuzzybutternut

Not Voting:

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Thursday, March 21st at 4:00 am PST or in

(expired on 2013-03-21 04:00:00)

[Varsoon]

I'll put it as this: My interactions with him, though at first giving me newb town vibe, have shifted, mainly due to his sudden change of heart on me. He stated that he believed I was town, but as soon as another point came up, he was quick to jump onto it.
The same goes with Yoshi.

I shifted on you when you started to get more and more absurdly defensive.
I was initially nervous of you because...
You replaced an inactive player while the only scumread I had was on Yoshi,
and
You immediately built a case against the highest posting user right out of the gate.

But I gave you the benefit of the doubt. You could just be scumhunting and the inactive could have been VT. We had plenty of inactives, and one of them could be the other scum.
But then...
You stopped scumhunting to become super-defensive of yourself.
Your poise and rhetoric fell apart when you were called out.

At this point, I kind of want to vote for you, because even if you're town, then I'll know that people who pushed cases against you are more likely to be scum. If you're scum, then we get rid of half of mafia on day 1.
Even in light of all this, I'm holding that Yoshi is scum. Because, frankly, he's -still- more of a scumtell to me than you.

[Approximately Normal Guy]

UNVOTE: NS

I'm not quite sold on fuzzy being scum here. To me it reads more like he's just got the wrong idea about no lynch. If this was some crucial part of the game, like tied lynches or something, and he refused to pick a side, then that would be a much bigger concern for me. I could be biased because I'm also struggling to form a solid scum read on anyone, but I can at least see why fuzzy would argue the position.

@fuzzy, 1) why did you claim? Nobody stated intent to hammer, nor did anyone ask for a claim. If there is anything about the whole exchange that makes me not like you, it's that. It felt rushed.

2) You really should just let it go. No lynch obviously isn't going to happen today, so you're just wasting your time with it.

[Approximately Normal Guy]

I was initially nervous of you because...
You replaced an inactive player while the only scumread I had was on Yoshi,
and
You immediately built a case against the highest posting user right out of the gate.

Why do these two things make you nervous?

At this point, I kind of want to vote for you, because even if you're town, then I'll know that people who pushed cases against you are more likely to be scum. If you're scum, then we get rid of half of mafia on day 1.

This doesn't sound like town logic to me. You say you want to vote him because if he flips town the people who voted him are probably scum. What would that say for you, then?

[Approximately Normal Guy]

In post 149, RandomYoshi wrote:wait i'm almost certain that 87 is a huge buddying post atm


How's it buddying? I don't see it.

Yoshi you never responded to this.

[kuror0]

UNVOTE: Fuzzy

@MOD: Requesting a prod on Nabber.

[Varsoon]

[quote="In post 243

Why do these two things make you nervous?

At this point, I kind of want to vote for you, because even if you're town, then I'll know that people who pushed cases against you are more likely to be scum. If you're scum, then we get rid of half of mafia on day 1.

This doesn't sound like town logic to me. You say you want to vote him because if he flips town the people who voted him are probably scum. What would that say for you, then?

Well, if you only have a scum read on one single person and another person steps in and says something you find scummy, replacing a completely inactive player and assuming his role, then you've got your second scum read, don't you?


It's not town logic to say that voting scum is a good idea?

I know it can be hard to follow more advanced play, but here's a pretty simple breakdown of what happens if we vote for him and he's VT (like he claims):
He's lynched and revealed as VT.
Anyone who built a case against him without sufficient evidence is now under suspicion.
Ergo, we have better leads to follow on who is scum.
ANG, I'm going to chalk this slip up to you not following my logic, but it seems like a pretty fucked up thing to imply someone else is scummy when their suggestion is pro-town.
What's the basis?

Either way, like I said, he's my second choice for scum.
My first choice is, and always has been, Yoshi.

[Approximately Normal Guy]

Well, if you only have a scum read on one single person and another person steps in and says something you find scummy, replacing a completely inactive player and assuming his role, then you've got your second scum read, don't you?

1+1=2, yes.

It's not town logic to say that voting scum is a good idea?

I know it can be hard to follow more advanced play, but here's a pretty simple breakdown of what happens if we vote for him and he's VT (like he claims):
He's lynched and revealed as VT.

Anyone who built a case against him without sufficient evidence is now under suspicion

.
Ergo, we have better leads to follow on who is scum.
ANG, I'm going to chalk this slip up to you not following my logic, but it seems like a pretty fucked up thing to imply someone else is scummy when their suggestion is pro-town.
What's the basis?

First of all, you can cut the attitude. I didn't say nor did I imply that voting scum isn't a good idea.

The bold is true

regardless

of what he flips.

You seemed to be not that concerned about the possibility of a mislynch, and more focused on the fact that people on the mislynch would look scummy for it. Whether the people on the lynch look scummy should not depend on the flip. You can look at their votes and the cases they've built now and decide if you think their reasoning is valid.

In a nutshell, my point was that you had no issues supporting the lynch, but your attitude was that if he flipped town then the people voted him would look scummy. You would be one of those people, and not only that, but you would have been hopping on the end of the wagon.

Nutshell-inside-a-nutshell: lynching scum is pro-town, "lynch now, ask questions later" is not.