Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Belisarius I was already debating whether to point out Cub's #479 in response to your #486. I most likely would've before the day ended.

[SafetyDance]

Who appointed this guy as Town Whip? Do not like.

Nice of you to drop by and let us know how you feel.

Why I'm not accepting NS claim to be more proactive Day 2:

From ISO 13 here he makes nine, NINE posts with little to no content in them before reaching lylo.

Now, he just jumps on the biggest wagon to help it move to L-1.

Please get on his wagon, I'd be very happy for it build. It'll end in tears.

I wont lose sleep other these people being lynched too: Susan, Cub
People who should be looked at more: ac1983fan, Beli, Cheery

Did you just tell everyone they should form an NS wagon, then mention alternative targets of myself and Cub, then mention 3 others who should be looked at,

none

of which are Apozzle who you voted in the following post?

What the shit?

pedit:

@GM

That won't be necessary. Although I'm certainly not pleased by the prospect of a mislynch, considering the way your play has pinged warning signs I believe it's probably best to find out this way.

Because I don't (didn't) trust Cub and he's acting like he's coaching and leading and I definitely do not like that. No, I don't have a solid OMGZ TOWN 4EVAAAA read on Apozzle regardless of others mentioned. It's 4 hours till deadline, are you considering NS?

Logically, mason is the decent claim from both now I guess.

UNVOTE

Sure you wont need me to lynch GM, but consider me on it in spirit if you wish.

[Apozzle]

Wondering whether I should claim now or wait until someone declares intent to whatever?

I think you should only claim now if we can't gauge enough willingness to lynch GM by deadline.

I am in class for the next 3.5 hours but I will try to check back in ~2.

Apozzle, I recommend you don't claim unless forced.

Apozzle, please let these fine people know why they need to unvote you.

This is a conversation between the two of us, in thread, which starts with me literally asking for Cub to consent to my claiming, and ends with him literally giving me the word to claim. If you did not realize that we were partnered, I feel sorry for you.

If you ISO us, you might also notice that each of us pretty much refuses to entertain the idea of the other being scum.

If you are

insane

, you might have noticed Cub's mason references. Seriously, those are awesome. Who would ever get those references? Give the man a bloody medal for that.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Safety

I'll add GM and Apozzle to the list of people you're happy to lynch. Cub moves down to watch list I suppose. Good to know you're prepared to move a vote onto pretty much anyone.

[Cub Daigoro]

Hey GM, since you seem to be resigned to a lynch already anyway, can you give us any updated reads before you depart? It's your last chance to help your wincon.

How does our Mason claim affect your reads?

[implosion]

so, i'm here. sorry. I don't think GM will flip scum (although I'm going to look a bit more at cases on him right now) but i don't think any other wagon will be able to get enough steam by a couple hours from now, so i'll hammer at ~30 minutes before deadline if no one else has.

[implosion]

So cub and zaicon's votes are both terrible, and edo's is decent but not great.

Now for the second half of the wagon~

[implosion]

Yeah. The majority of points against goodmorning (at least when people initially voted for him) were "i disagree with you on X." That is not scummy. That is disagreement. It in no way implies scum. Some of the points are okay, but they don't sway me at all. GM's general mood and his claim both feel somewhat town (more the claim than the mood) so yeah, i think this is a mislynch.

[ac1983fan]

Preparing reads on everyone atm but given the claims I will

unvote

for the moment and reVOTE: Belisarius since he was scummy earlier on in the day and has vote hopped from wagon to wagon w/o really ccontributing anything new (I know pot kettle)

[pieceofpecanpie]

Alright, I want to get a few last thoughts down as a summary and then hammer this thing. I hope no one minds too much that it's not last second, I don't consider it likely that more fresh voices will enter in the last hour or so.

Highlight from the 11th hour:

- the double mason claim from Cub/Apozzle, appears legit to me. If you're happy to treat it as truth then their opening Day posts become really valuable. (Apozzle's #390 for example)

What are my thoughts if GM flips scum?

- this is too early to speculate on. Obviously I think it's possible given her posts and the beef I've had with them, but her recent tone has tempered her scumminess. However, this could've merely been done to open the door for a quick scum rush onto Apozzle. Regardless of the flip flopping, I'm pushing through with the lynch, I want to see the flip and if it's scum I won't be able to say much until night actions are resolved and I'm left breathing.

What are my thoughts if GM flips town?

- this to me would signify that scum have been floating a lot more under the radar for most of the day. If you take the two masons to be more or less confirmed, then they are sitting on GM's wagon, I'm on there (take that to mean what you will), 3 of my townish/null reads are on there and then there's NS. From my perspective I take this to mean that the wagon has mostly been town driven.

I want to briefly put down thoughts on two people, because I think regardless of the flip town should be

very

interested in either of these two on the 'morrow.

ac1983fan

- lots of quoting, a few jibes on people here and there and very little content or concerted scumhunting. Thanks to his meticulous quoting we have easy access to a beautiful bit of banter between him and Safety that goes nowhere in #305. For the most part my opinion hasn't changed from what I said in #391, I'm just slowly elaborating on it.

Safety Dance

- a wistful thought right now is how much better it would be to be sitting on a Safety lynch. Speaking of that feeling about GM's wagon being town-driven, when plenty of folks where nabbing her about #329 and #331 there were three who came in shortly after and completely ignored it: NS, ac1983fan (in response to NS) and Safety who posted #341 & #342 saying very little about anything before going V/LA.

I'm noticing an emerging pattern from Safety where what he says isn't quite lining up with what he's doing. Take the early game where he made a comment about NS' scumminess, voted him and then switched it to me when he interpreted what I posted as scumbuddy sign. That's fine, but perhaps a bit superfluous to immediately switch votes since you've already got it sitting on one scum suspect. And it's doubly weird considering that the main scum-tell from me was a FoS as opposed to a vote, when I had made crystal clear why I was doing one and not the other.

A recent example is his #477 & [urlhttp://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4771982#p4771982]#488[/url], all players discussed as lynch/watch targets in #477 are duly ignored and a lynch is placed on Apozzle in #488. See what I mean about not quite lining up? It's just like switching his vote suddenly to me and then when questioned about it declares that he still finds NS scummy too. Then why switch votes so suddenly? Was I

extra

scummy? It doesn't make sense. Something to note is how much he's picked and chosen when to call the lurking thing scummy. He's picked on NS constantly about it, but ignored Human Destroyer and ac1983fan and even jumped on the Apozzle wagon with them

while

criticising the GM wagon because NS is on it.

Why I'm not accepting NS claim to be more proactive Day 2:

From ISO 13 here he makes nine, NINE posts with little to no content in them before reaching lylo.

Now, he just jumps on the biggest wagon to help it move to L-1.

Please get on his wagon, I'd be very happy for it build. It'll end in tears.

If I were to say Safety is scum, and I'm very close to doing so, I'd also suggest that he's easily thrown a scumbuddy in there out of the names he reeled off. Since myself and Cub were in the lynch group, let's look at the one's to watch group. ac1983fan, Belisarius and Cheery Dog. So again he chose the Apozzle wagon over GM's despite it having

all

of the people he wants to be looked at more. Does that make sense? (in terms of likely scumbuddy I'd order them: ac1983fan, Cheery Dog, Belisarius).

Bonus Person

And for my final thought let's talk briefly about NS. NS is thus-far useless. Lurking, scummy, vague you name it. There is no way I want to see NS coast into Lylo at this rate. However, NS can also be the go-to name for anyone who wants to derail any current discussion. Start a bit of open speculation about someone's post and anyone can barge in yelling "NS is scummy! Kill him!" and the thread will collapse into a session of scumminess of lurking vs his meta and so forth. I'd much rather if the suspicion was cast on people making those sorts of easy calls, rather than NS himself for the time being. There are two people above that I want town to look at seriously. There are also others.

I'm not trying to set up the lynches of tomorrow, I'm merely trying to get these thoughts down in case I don't live to see it.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Damnit!

People have appeared out of the woodwork.

I'm off to grab a beer now, so I have to pass hammer duties on to someone else in case I don't make it back for the deadline.

[goodmorning]

Uh, updated reads/wild guesses:

I believe the Mason claim.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is Scum, and ac may be as well.

Safety is Town, I think. Zai is a little more difficult to mail down. He has been a bit lurky but that's not necessarily inconsistent with his Town meta.

Cheery is Town. So is implosion.

NS is likelier Town than Scum from the early wagon alone but he'd probably still be a good lynch in the next couple days.

Beli is flying under the radar in an interesting fashion. Could be a good outside chance.

HD isn't really playing to his Town meta, but he's not really playing to his Scum meta either. If there is an SK in the setup it's right here.

I have no idea how I feel about ppp anymore.

[Nobody Special]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is Scum,

I hate to assume things; is this Edosurist?

[ac1983fan]

Apozzle & Cub Daigoro: They are basically good. Two scum claiming masons in a game like this is far too risky; they don't know that there might not be another mason etc and they wouldn't risk outing between 67 and 100% of their scumteam at once. (It's still technically possible but even though I found Apozzle quite scummy I don't doubt the claims).

Nobody Special:
*sigh*

implosion:
I get a lot of mixed reads on this dude

goodmorning:
#420 is very AtEish, and given GM's overall behavior during the game pretty sure she's just frustrated town

Edosurist:
So, let me get this straight: you mention/talk to Apozzle all of twice and then suddenly he's your second-highest scumpick? (in re:388) and you jump on the Goodmorning wagon just as its beginning to gain speed. IGMEOY

SafetyDance:
Needs more investigation during the night phase

pieceofpecanpie:
You know, I wasn't originally too concered with Susan's behavior because it felt similar to his behavior in the last game I played with him ~ a year ago. Then I remembered...We were both scum in that game. (I haven't looked up his meta tho so take that with a grain of salt but he's starting to ping my scumdar I suppose)

Belisarius:
I think my vote on him explains my feelings very well

Messiah/Human Destroyer:
Messiah's one post was an out-of-nowhere jump onto the SD wagon that was forming on that time. HD has contributed next to nothing other than some tunelling of Apozzle. Pretty scummy.

Cheery Dog:
Gut town
--

ac1983 fan

Allow me to direct you to this post; please peruse the latter half.

@GM Re: popp's small townread count
popp's probably just scumhunting, not townhunting <glances at ac>

?

I'm currently in catchup mode in a few other games and I haven't gotten to this one yet sooooo.

Thanks for replacing into a game and then not contributing. It's really useful.
--

I don't want to lynch GM. Can we switch to Beli, Nobody Special, or HD? Probably don't have enough time -_-

[ac1983fan]

...Yeah 30 minutes to deadline. Ugh :/

[goodmorning]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is Scum,

I hate to assume things; is this Edosurist?

IT IS

[implosion]

*sigh*.

unvote

VOTE: goodmorning

[goodmorning]

That oughtta be it.

[Cheery Dog]

Roleclaim: Mason

Why did you bother doing this when people were unvoting on Apozzle's claim anyway?

I know there was an already obvious hint at it from how you asked him to claim, but scum may not have noticed it.

[Edosurist]

Edosurist:
So, let me get this straight: you mention/talk to Apozzle all of twice and then suddenly he's your second-highest scumpick? (in re:388) and you jump on the Goodmorning wagon just as its beginning to gain speed. IGMEOY

Well, I really only had time to discuss two people this day phase, so the only way I could fix that was with more content. Sorry.
I had been preoccupied on Tuesday when GM wrote 329. I then read through Wednesday, found that and her subsequent posts scummy, and placed my vote. I was just "unlucky" to hitch a ride on the wagon just as it got rolling.

Re: mason claims
I don't understand why Cub claimed too. It looks like he might be trying to be overly persuasive on it, so I'm still going to watch the two of them.


And I feel disappointed that I barely got to touch up or follow the game. Life's just been hard the last two weeks, but I'll have time this weekend and next week to contribute more.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Re: mason claims
I don't understand why Cub claimed too. It looks like he might be trying to be overly persuasive on it, so I'm still going to watch the two of them.

Overly persuasive maybe, but how would they coordinate such a thing as scum with no daychat? Just really intuitive to what the other one is meticulously setting up on Day 1?

Watch them all you want, if you can come up with a theory to not believe a word they're saying then please let everyone in on it.

[pieceofpecanpie]

pieceofpecanpie:
You know, I wasn't originally too concered with Susan's behavior because it felt similar to his behavior in the last game I played with him ~ a year ago. Then I remembered...We were both scum in that game. (I haven't looked up his meta tho so take that with a grain of salt but he's starting to ping my scumdar I suppose)

What scumdar? I haven't seen you actively scumhunt all day. But I keep my games pretty much up to date in my wiki. If you want to throw that grain of salt out there, then read through my most recent town and scum games and let us know what you think.

[implosion]

The mason claims are town and if they aren't it'll become relatively obvious over time anyway so time spent arguing about them is time wasted.

Also, i think edosurist is scum. Gut for now, will try to substantiate tomorrow depending on etcetera.

[Human Destroyer]

Thanks for replacing into a game and then not contributing. It's really useful.

I'm going to contribute, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[Nobody Special]

but I'll have time this weekend and next week to contribute more.

Well, since this weekend will largely be Night, next week is what we'll have to look for from you. This feels vaguely scummish.

I'm going to contribute, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

HEY! Stop stealing my schtick!