Newbie 1336 (OVER)

[BrightEyedFish]

Hi. Hopefully I address all issues with my votes, let me know if I miss something.

@BEF any particular reason you didn’t mention that you were placing reham at L-1?

Any particular reason you didn’t address the questions I posed to you in post 186?

I think reham’s play is bad. But I think that has more to due with things being lost in translation and a lack of knowledge on how the game works. He obviously wanted to go ahead with a risky gambit on Day 1 and now on Day 2 he is leading an attack against the IC. Both plays seem too reckless for scum. I think no matter how bad his play has been he is making a bona fide attempt to scum hunt.

You know who hasn’t been making any efforts to scum hunt, but instead seems to be trying to find nice safe targets to vote for? BEF.

I don’t like how when BEF voted for me and was asked for an explanation he changed his vote instead of answering the questions.

I also don’t like how BEF seems to be constantly sheeping people.

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

I will start with addressing what was asked in #186:
@Mr E Roll
I voted for you for voting MrZep basically because your name appreaed 3 times in the list I put together in Post 181
You MrZep voting pattern just stood out to me, but now I do not feel threatened by it, hence why I was comfortable in switching my vote off of you and onto reham.
I am sorry if it seems as if I am sheeping. But honestly, reham vote onto Jason was a really BAD move with very BAD reasoning behind it. And I think that alone is enough reason to put him at L-1.

Let me explain a little about my playing style in hopes that you may understand why it seems as if I am sheeping.
I am somewhat new to the mafia game (at least the forum versions) and I have notcied that on D1 I am typically quiet and a little reserved about my presumptions. D2 is where I start getting actively involved in scumhunting.

In this game, here is what I have noticed so far.
There is very much speculation up to this point. That is why my Mr E Roll vote seems so abstract, I really do not have anything that I can 100% say "They are scum" , only, I think this person has the greatest chance of being scum with all the information I have so far.

The D1 MrZep lynch was a total fiasco on all parts. NOW, I do not see any particular person at fault. However, I think at least 1 scum was 1 of the voters.
And with Xitan being killed in N1, I see no dots to connect.

So where does that leave us? Sheeping ideas/votes... maybe, if at the least to build pressure on a player for more information.

I wish I had more information to give at this time.

[BrightEyedFish]

Also, let me know if I missed a question or if I need to clarify anything.

[Mr E Roll]

@BEF I dislike your explanation on so many levels.

I voted for you for voting MrZep basically because your name appreaed 3 times in the list I put together in Post 181

Ok, but what did you find suspicious about any of the individuals actions involved with my voting pattern or can you explain why the fact that my name appeared three times in total was suspicious? We can all count, we can all see my name appeared three times now please provide analysis instead of just information.

In MrZep's list in Post 103 the only player that he has listed as scum is Mr E Roll.

Why include this little gem in the post you voted for me? It looks to me that you were trying to include extra reasons for your vote because you knew that you had not provided enough justification.

You MrZep voting pattern just stood out to me, but now I do not feel threatened by it, hence why I was comfortable in switching my vote off of you and onto reham.

Great you no longer feel threatened by my voting, why not? And why did you initially feel threatened by it?

I am sorry if it seems as if I am sheeping. But honestly, reham vote onto Jason was a really BAD move with very BAD reasoning behind it. And I think that alone is enough reason to put him at L-1.

I agree that reham’s articulation of his reason was poorly executed but his syntax has been off all game. But why do you think it was such a bad move? Didn’t Jason vote for MrZ isn’t he one of your person’s of interest?

Let me explain a little about my playing style in hopes that you may understand why it seems as if I am sheeping.
I am somewhat new to the mafia game (at least the forum versions) and I have notcied that on D1 I am typically quiet and a little reserved about my presumptions. D2 is where I start getting actively involved in scumhunting.

So you think it’s ok to not really start participating until day two? Well it’s day two when are you going to start participating?

One final question why did you begin the day with just a Fos on reham, but was comfortable voting for me? I am asking when do you Fos and when do you vote or do you see them as interchangeable?

[JasonWazza]

I voted for you for voting MrZep basically because your name appreaed 3 times in the list I put together in Post 181

Ok, but what did you find suspicious about any of the individuals actions involved with my voting pattern or can you explain why the fact that my name appeared three times in total was suspicious? We can all count, we can all see my name appeared three times now please provide analysis instead of just information.

Gonna chime in on this point here, this is actually known as IIoA (information instead of analysis) and is scummy due to a lack of "active" scumhunting (active being the part that everyone can see over the part just happening in your head).

I agree that reham’s articulation of his reason was poorly executed but his syntax has been off all game. But why do you think it was such a bad move? Didn’t Jason vote for MrZ isn’t he one of your person’s of interest?

OK why does this feel like a really soft defense of reham and pushing towards me as a suspect?

This actually seems scummy to me more for the fact it's not defending what it did, but all it's doing is saying "why are you looking at reham and not at Jason?"

One final question why did you begin the day with just a Fos on reham, but was comfortable voting for me? I am asking when do you Fos and when do you vote or do you see them as interchangeable?

Just as another note, FoSes are generally seldom seen on MafiaScum for generally this reason, it's like voting except weak as fuck, the only real reason to be FoSing over voting is LYLO or when a scum self hammer is likely.

[Mr E Roll]

I agree that reham’s articulation of his reason was poorly executed but his syntax has been off all game. But why do you think it was such a bad move? Didn’t Jason vote for MrZ isn’t he one of your person’s of interest?

OK why does this feel like a really soft defense of reham and pushing towards me as a suspect?

This actually seems scummy to me more for the fact it's not defending what it did, but all it's doing is saying "why are you looking at reham and not at Jason?"

In essence that is exactly what I’m asking.

One of BEF’s arguments for being suspicious of me is because MrZ called me scum. MrZ was undeniably clear that he thought your were scum.

BEF also thinks that at least one scum voted for MrZ. You voted for MrZ.

You seem to fit the criteria that BEF needs to call you scum. However, not only does BEF think it’s a bad move to vote for you, he feels comfortable sheeping you. It just doesn’t add up to me so I’m hoping he can explain it.

[JasonWazza]

I agree that reham’s articulation of his reason was poorly executed but his syntax has been off all game. But why do you think it was such a bad move? Didn’t Jason vote for MrZ isn’t he one of your person’s of interest?

OK why does this feel like a really soft defense of reham and pushing towards me as a suspect?

This actually seems scummy to me more for the fact it's not defending what it did, but all it's doing is saying "why are you looking at reham and not at Jason?"

In essence that is exactly what I’m asking.

One of BEF’s arguments for being suspicious of me is because MrZ called me scum. MrZ was undeniably clear that he thought your were scum.

BEF also thinks that at least one scum voted for MrZ. You voted for MrZ.

You seem to fit the criteria that BEF needs to call you scum. However, not only does BEF think it’s a bad move to vote for you, he feels comfortable sheeping you. It just doesn’t add up to me so I’m hoping he can explain it.

What you seem to be forgetting is everyone has a "gut" feeling 3 people can do the same thing, but 1 person may do it in a way that makes people's gut's tingle the wrong way, does that mean that it's wrong to vote based on the fact that the other 2 are doing the same thing?

Hint the answer is no.

[BrightEyedFish]

@BEF I dislike your explanation on so many levels.

1) Ok, but what did you find suspicious about any of the individuals actions involved with my voting pattern or can you explain why the fact that my name appeared three times in total was suspicious? We can all count, we can all see my name appeared three times now please provide analysis instead of just information.

2) Why include this little gem in the post you voted for me? It looks to me that you were trying to include extra reasons for your vote because you knew that you had not provided enough justification.

3) Great you no longer feel threatened by my voting, why not? And why did you initially feel threatened by it?

4) I agree that reham’s articulation of his reason was poorly executed but his syntax has been off all game. But why do you think it was such a bad move? Didn’t Jason vote for MrZ isn’t he one of your person’s of interest?

5) So you think it’s ok to not really start participating until day two? Well it’s day two when are you going to start participating?

6) One final question why did you begin the day with just a Fos on reham, but was comfortable voting for me? I am asking when do you Fos and when do you vote or do you see them as interchangeable?

1) I made my vote based on the information that I had. You could call it a superficial analysis because I did not have anything really deep to dice into with that information.

2) My reasoning behind repeating that MrZep had voted for you was simply because it was more information that linked you to MrZep. Then when MrZep flipped town then regardless of his skill level or his knowledge into your alignment, one must believe he had the town's interest in mind. It was worth checking out.

3) I did feel threatened by you, and my reasoning for voting you is why I felt so. It is not that I no longer feel threatened by you, it is more like I believe the information I have received from reham is more alarming at this time.

4) The fact that Jason voted for MrZep did not go unnoticed by me, but there was nothing other than his vote on MrZep to justify me voting for him.

5) It not that I think it is ok. What I meant is that since I am somewhat new to forum mafia, I have not developed a very good D1 method and I don't feel as comfortable fishing in D1 without good evidence.

6) I guess the term "FoS" has a more subtle meaning for me. I do not take it as a vote or a half-vote, it is just a way for me to voice my "suspicions" without having enough information to cast a full-on vote.

And just a comment on this:

[quote="
You seem to fit the criteria that BEF needs to call you scum. However, not only does BEF think it’s a bad move to vote for you, he feels comfortable sheeping you. It just doesn’t add up to me so I’m hoping he can explain it.

I did not say it was a bad move to vote for Jason, I think the reasoning behind his vote on Jason was completely horrible, and warranting of a vote.

[A Muffin]

Prod dodging. I have a concert today for most of the day, so I can't really do anything, but expect reads within 12 hours

[JasonWazza]

Quick Explaination of weird shiz;

Server clock has been turned back 5 hours so posts will get all weirdly oriented.

[A Muffin]

Prod dodging. I have a concert for most of the day, so I can't do anything right now, but expect reads within ~12 hours

[Mr E Roll]

What you seem to be forgetting is everyone has a "gut" feeling 3 people can do the same thing, but 1 person may do it in a way that makes people's gut's tingle the wrong way, does that mean that it's wrong to vote based on the fact that the other 2 are doing the same thing?

I have a “gut” feeling this might be scum coaching.

5) It not that I think it is ok. What I meant is that since I am somewhat new to forum mafia, I have not developed a very good D1 method and I don't feel as comfortable fishing in D1 without good evidence.

I knew the newb card would be played by somebody at some point.

Also you do know the terms fishing and hunting are not interchangeable? Freudian slip or honest mistake?

Mod: Can we get a prod on AssMuffin please?

[JasonWazza]

What you seem to be forgetting is everyone has a "gut" feeling 3 people can do the same thing, but 1 person may do it in a way that makes people's gut's tingle the wrong way, does that mean that it's wrong to vote based on the fact that the other 2 are doing the same thing?

I have a “gut” feeling this might be scum coaching.

I'm the IC so this is really not coaching and more me just explaining shit but nice try.

[Mr E Roll]

Yesterday when I asked about scum claims you waited until after MrZ made his claim to explain it so as to not bias his claim.

Today when I’m asking BEF about the double standard he is imposing on me and you, you choose to address the question before BEF responds potentially biasing his answer.

Just because you are fulfilling you role as an IC doesn’t mean you aren’t playing to your win condition.

[BrightEyedFish]

I am not trying to play the "newb card" and I am not putting up a double standard. I know you and Jason voted for MrZep, but your voting sequence had more red flags. In no way did I say, if you voted for MrZep then you are scum. If i had meant that, then I would be calling myself scum.

and honest mistake with the use of fishing.

[Mr E Roll]

Can you explain those red flags?

[BrightEyedFish]

Can you explain those red flags?

I have already explained my reasoning (or red flags) for voting you. See post 200 on.

[Mr E Roll]

@BEF maybe I'm just being obtuse but what I'm seeing is basically "I voted for you because you voted for MrZ"

I won't ask you to explain it again since you obviously think you've explained it enough.

Can anybody else explain to me why BEF voted for me and what part of those suspicions can not be applied to Jason?

[BrightEyedFish]

What you are seeing if you actually read it is...
This is why I voted you and not Jason.
Jason voted for MrZep and that was that.
You voted for MrZep, then unvoted MrZep, and then voted MrZep again. In addition, MrZep had you listed as scum and since MrZep was town maybe he was on to something.

With this information alone and on the matter of the MrZep, you stand out more than Jason.

And besides, I am no longer voting for you because of this. I have switched my vote to reham, so I would like to focus on him instead of you.

[Messiah]

Newbie 1336 - Vote Count 2.2

---

reham008 [L-1] - Cybertronix, JasonWazza, BrightEyedFish

JasonWazza [L-3] - reham008
BrightEyedFish [L-3] - Mr E Roll

Not Voting (2):

Captain Ribbit, AssMuffin

With seven alive it takes four to lynch.

---

Phase Deadline:

(expired on 2013-03-25 12:00:00)

[JasonWazza]

Note: post #287-289 are 5 hours older then they appear

Also this argument is just pedantic

[Mr E Roll]

Actually Posts 207-209 appear five hours older than they are.

[BrightEyedFish]

So I hope the issues is resolved with the post times... We need to get some other people involved in the dialogue...

[Messiah]

Cybertronix and reham008 have received their first prod of the game.

[Cybertronix]

Sorry. Weekends are generally bad for me (2 young children) and today we had 3 new starts at work (Busy IT guy). I'll see if I can sneak in some time tonight, but I'll for sure be around tomorrow. Thanks.

[reham008]

Guys, it's nearing the end of the semester so I'm cramming projects and assignments and reviews for exams. xD
I'm gonna be back tonight, 8 hours from now.