/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Empire]

Going to a basketball game today, post tomorrow.

[Faraday]

Day 2, Votecount 4

OhGodMyLife (1) - Tierce
Vi (3) - Benmage, Cogito Ergo Sum, Tammy
Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Llamarble, Empire, Vi
Benmage (1) - OhGodMyLife
WickedestJr (3) - Shadoweh, Nachomamma8, Konowa

Not voting (2) :

Deasvail, Wickedestjr

• With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 21st of March at 11:15pm GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-21 19:15:44)
  
• WickedestJr is V/la

Having fairly bad computer issues. Consider me V/la.

[Faraday]

Prodding Nachomamma8

[Shadoweh]

I haven't read this game at all yesterday. I put a memo in my head to go read scum/town games of CES and Vi so I can offer an educated opinion on this fight (really to offer an educated reason why both parties should stop it). Despite what I said earlier about Vi, I would be even less inclined to vote CES right now, this is the most motivated and useful I've ever seen him be. That sums up why I'd rather wait for weird doods to stop being on vacation.

[Vi]

You have a weird definition of useful.

[Nachomamma8]

I may have conflated Tierce and you a bit in hindsight. My point was simply being suspicious of someone and not picking up on a fairly explicit softclaim is not all that likely to be the result of diligent scumhunting.

I don't see how anything you mentioned is supposed to be plausible anyway. Accountability, really?

Who is your current scumteam pick?
Vi, same thing to you.

Anyway, I'm not going to spend too much time on this today, so going over ISOs will need to wait

I do want your reads as soon as possible.

My point was simply being suspicious of someone and not picking up on a fairly explicit softclaim is not all that likely to be the result of diligent scumhunting.

A ton of people suspected Johhog despite him making that post and despite Tammy pointing out the PR possibility in her wallpost (and even I was wavering on the Johhog townread at the end of the day). I don't really see why Vi is being singled out here, especially given that this roster is fairly competent and should have caught that/considered it more.

I agree that one player getting singled out for something like that is stupid. Vi saying that he didn't notice it and trying to flip it around with "I think that implicates you more than it implicated me!" is a bit unexpected and I don't really like it.

[Tierce]

I've been spending this game being mostly useless, and it's not going to change now. We're flying back to the US tomorrow with an overnight layover, so I expect to be somewhat coherent again come the 15th.

@Faraday: Travel V/LA begins now.

[OhGodMyLife]

Mostly an antiprod.

Why is no one else interested in a Benmage wagon?

[Nachomamma8]

Why should I be?

[Tierce]

I'm still reading things but this one is a layup.

Vote: Benmage

Mostly an antiprod.

Why is no one else interested in a Benmage wagon?

Damn impressive wagon push you got there. Any opinions on the game?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Who is your current scumteam pick?
Vi, same thing to you.

Vi, OGML, you. If you weren't being literal with the scum team thing, you can replace yourself with Shadoweh.

Are you caught up, OGML?

[Vi]

I may have conflated Tierce and you a bit in hindsight. My point was simply being suspicious of someone and not picking up on a fairly explicit softclaim is not all that likely to be the result of diligent scumhunting.

I don't see how anything you mentioned is supposed to be plausible anyway. Accountability, really?

Who is your current scumteam pick?
Vi, same thing to you.

This question seems pointless

CES, Konowa, DV, side order of Shadoweh maybe.

I agree that one player getting singled out for something like that is stupid. Vi saying that he didn't notice it and trying to flip it around with "I think that implicates you more than it implicated me!" is a bit unexpected and I don't really like it.

If people can't recognize Town tells when they see them I don't see a problem with pointing them out.

[Empire]

Mostly an antiprod.

Why is no one else interested in a Benmage wagon?

Is this really all you're going to do?

Man, this game feels dead. Where is Llamarble and why hasn't he been towninating recently?

[Faraday]

Prodding Wickedestjr

[Benmage]

Ive been ingnoring this thread too!!!

[Benmage]

Im gonna goto the gym, and maybe contribute after but probably play LoL

[Nachomamma8]

If you weren't being literal with the scum team thing, you can replace yourself with Shadoweh.

Why Shadoweh?

This question seems pointless

More pointless for you than CES, probably. But Shadoweh being the maybe maybe scumread for both of you is interesting.

If people can't recognize Town tells when they see them I don't see a problem with pointing them out.

When that towntell is based on NK analysis, I tend to cringe a little bit.

Man, this game feels dead. Where is Llamarble and why hasn't he been towninating recently?

game is dead, this isn't helping.

[Tammy]

CES has spent the entire game thus far tunneling on four people, all of whom are actually pretty likely to be Town and all of whom just happen to have been the major wagons going on without his input. Three of them were targets of opportunity (Llamarble, N, penguin_alien) and I was just an easy pick along the way to lynching N and penguin_alien.

Now consider that Johhog softclaiming his power role sounds a

whole lot

like why he was killed (feel free to come up with an alternative explanation; I'll wait). Now you get to choose whether you believe I'm spinning webs of elaborate fake confusion about why he was killed, or if I was actually left out of the loop entirely AKA not scum. I'm legitimately surprised that people who have read a whole lot more of this game than I have (well, the Townies, anyway) have not picked up on this yet.

But the question is: would you fake a town tell to sound like town?

Also, I'm not getting some of your points about CES. It's kinda hard to tunnel four people, having four suspects pretty much indicates not tunneling. Llamarble was a natural push and actually seemed odd to me that he wasn't tunneling Llamarble at the start of the game. But I can't tell how much of it is you actually thinking CES is suspicious and you pulling playstyle hatred against him like for instance in Post 821 where you say that there's no meta reason for us to expect positive contribution. I actually think that's wrong and that he's been rather forthcoming with his thoughts and reasons on things and they read genuine enough, so I can't follow along if you actually find him suspicious and that's part of the problem for me.

Why do you suspect Shadoweh and not OGML? Especially considering OGML has done next to nothing since replacing in except call for a wagon on benmage? (Actually, I'd like CES to fill me in on the Shadoweh suspicion too. I'm putting this here to see if you actually read my walls. )

---------------

Obv prod dodge. This happens after work.

Do you work in 24-hour shifts?

Also, why Penguin over N yesterday?

-------------

CES - You said CTD was tricksy. How would you expect him to handle the traitor role?

-------------

Empire - I know you're voting CES, but why are you scum reading him? Also, what's your read on Vi?

I feel like there should be more there. Sorry, I'm really distracted right now. Too many things going on and this stupid dissertation has to be done like next week, so I'm even more scattered than I normally am.

~Tags fixed

[Tammy]

Faraday - Will you fix my quote tags???

Pretty please and thank you.

[Konowa]

It just feels like that at this point, Tammy. I've started a new job over the weekend which entails 60 hour weeks, so this will probably be my last game for awhile and I'm trying my damnest to not replace out.

Just to get my thoughts out as to where I am: Wicked (think points raised yesterday are valid and his responses don't really do anything for me), Shadoweh (think this sitting waiting on Wicked is Not Town, then with CTD flipping traitor the early push and then gradual slide bugs me).

I see DV's vote and initial response was that he isn't really looking for an answer. If he was truly interested in what I had to say I think he would've seen that I said I would continue that conversation after he rephrased his loaded question. I really don't know what to think of DV.

Response to Tammy: I never really thought N was scum. I think I thought the dissonance in her change in stance on N was not Town in that it seemed to be more of a sheeped thought process, a me too sorta thing.

[Llamarble]

Konowa CES Benmage lynches interest me.
Vi & Nacho I should reread but I think I got town last time.
Tierce / Empire I wrote off as town a while back; they will get revisited eventually.
OGML Wjr Shadoweh Tammy DV do not particularly excite bloodlust.
And I'm town.

[DeasVail]

CES, Konowa, DV, side order of Shadoweh maybe.

Uh, what?

I see DV's vote and initial response was that he isn't really looking for an answer. If he was truly interested in what I had to say I think he would've seen that I said I would continue that conversation after he rephrased his loaded question. I really don't know what to think of DV.

Yet this was ages ago and you still don't have anything to say. Hmmm.

Reads hopefully being sorted out now.

[Vi]

This question seems pointless

More pointless for you than CES, probably. But Shadoweh being the maybe maybe scumread for both of you is interesting.

...I'm glad I already think you're Town, because otherwise I would call this insincere.

But the question is: would you fake a town tell to sound like town?

The better question is whether I would do it so well.

Also, I'm not getting some of your points about CES. It's kinda hard to tunnel four people, having four suspects pretty much indicates not tunneling. Llamarble was a natural push and actually seemed odd to me that he wasn't tunneling Llamarble at the start of the game.

What part of "people who were already under suspicion" is not making sense to you? And how many people other than myself have you seen CES talk about to any significant degree today?

Why do you suspect Shadoweh and not OGML? Especially considering OGML has done next to nothing since replacing in except call for a wagon on benmage? (Actually, I'd like CES to fill me in on the Shadoweh suspicion too. I'm putting this here to see if you actually read my walls.

Shadoweh is leftovers from D1.
OGML replaced N, next question please. My starbuck$ are on seeing someone else in that slot by the end of D3.

[DeasVail]

Now with colours!

Strong Townreads

Empire
Tammy
Tierce

Weak Townreads

Benmage
CES
Llamarble (maybe he's stronger though. I can't decide :/)
OGML- I think 832 is scummy though.
Shadoweh

Um...

Nacho- So I want him to be town, I really do, but there's not much that I can read either way. Only thing that maybe indicates something is the big wall of reads (which he's done as scum before in Always On, so I don't think it should be a towntell), whereas I don't think I've seen him do this as town actually, and I think from what I've seen he spreads things out rather than doing it all at once? I'm really not sure on this read.

Scum

Konowa- I'm pretty sure there's been talk of people finding him 'not town', so why not a wagon?
Vi- Actually finding someone scummy overrules town ~feelings~! Saying I'm scum is weird too
Wicked- The main thing that sticks out to me is 739. If you think someone is scum and that they're about to be lynched, then would you really be bothered as town to defend against their accusations? I think scum are much more likely to feel this need, and I'm thinking that town wouldn't seriously respond in such a way, and I guess the 'emotional' response doesn't seem genuine either considering the situation.

~~

Woo done! If you want reasoning for a read, then feel free to ask, but some of them are probably not very good.

Oh, and

Vote: Konowa

if that didn't go through properly.

[Vi]

Vi- Actually finding someone scummy overrules town ~feelings~! Saying I'm scum is weird too

(...)

If you want reasoning for a read, then feel free to ask, but some of them are probably not very good.

I'm pretty sure I can tell it's not very good without asking. The look I just gave my monitor, etc.