Newbie 1339 - Game Over! (Scum Win)

[kuror0]

I am waiting for some serious reply from Nacho cause if that's all he has to say about the game then...

Also hopefully NS can catch up soon also and say w/e he had to say.

[Remembrance]

Kuror0" That video I posted, do you remember what I did in the other game when we won? I posted the same video. Is that enough to convince you of something? What's the implication of me posting that video, do you think?

[Varsoon]

Kuror0" That video I posted, do you remember what I did in the other game when we won? I posted the same video. Is that enough to convince you of something? What's the implication of me posting that video, do you think?

WIFOM.
As scum, the same argument could be used to try to convince town.
This is the still the best move we can make D1.

[Remembrance]

Okay, but I can't ask people to hammer me, my hands are tied and I can't hammer myself to win it for the town. It's wifom, but it's not wifom once the game ends.

[Remembrance]

I am waiting for some serious reply from Nacho cause if that's all he has to say about the game then...

Also hopefully NS can catch up soon also and say w/e he had to say.

For someone so unwilling to believe me, you seem to believe NS when he's been posting consistently everywhere else on the forum. He's been making jokes too, or at least, I think they're jokes (which makes me glad that there's probably nothing wrong, because I was worried about him). His activity has dropped to almost nothing here, but he's keeping up with all of his different games: except this one.

All of the pieces of the puzzle should fit now. Just read the game one more time at exactly the point I replace in, and come to realize NS stopped posting after I started to play. His activity just drops off the circuit as I start to confirm each player one by one. Then look at goku, look at his play, and start to think about what would happen if he were a scum team member with NS, how do his actions make sense in that context if I were calling out the right people and everything I've said in this game were true, just consider it, you don't have to believe it, but use that perspective when examining the information. This should be enough to convince you. I should have pointed this out earlier, I tend to just say things without mentioning which post or what information I'm referring to. It made me appear like I didn't care, when I've read this thread well over 9 times.

This is called a trigger, and this should be the end of the game. Yoshi got triggered by the way, which is why he said this game was so easy on the page I posted the video. It was post game review for him, not current review.

You can face palm now if you'd like. Sorry that I seemed so arrogant by the way. I hope we can still be friends, I'll never use this play style again, I promise.

[RandomYoshi]

Varsoon, there is one very, very clear reason why Remembrance is Town. His interactions with everyone do not change. He questions person A the same way he questions person B. His questioning and behaviour is consistent, which it cannot be if he is Scum. This is because, if you are Scum, you need to fake your scumhunting. Now, while Remembrance has not done a whole lot of scumhunting, he has participated in a bunch of townhunting, which has made this game winnable for Town by the process of elimination. Making the game winnable for Town by the process of elimination does not strike me as good Scum-play at all. Considering that a single mislynch can get you lynched on the next Day if you are Scum and play like Remembrance has done, I think that, if this whole thing was a gambit, it would not give Remembrance that much at all. Essentially, it would be equatable to playing against your wincon. I am sure Remembrance does not do that. Playing against your wincon is stupid, no matter what faction you are on.

In short, Remembrance is Town because his process of questioning is genuine and consistent, and he wants to confirm people as Town — they way he has been doing this would not bear fruit if he was part of the anti-Town faction of the game. That, and playing like he has done is playing against his wincon if he is anti-Town.

[GuyInFreezer]

@RY: why do you think NS is scum? Explain with your own words. I don't want to hear "because Rem/Nacho said so" as a reason.

[Remembrance]

GuyInfreezer didn't you just read my argument?

Just understand this from a statistical view point. NS? His activity shot straight down as I confirmed my town reads. Just look at it, and then meta him. He's scum.

[GuyInFreezer]

No Rem I read your point and I throughly understand.
I want RY's reason, not yours.

[Remembrance]

Okay, shutting up now.

[RandomYoshi]

Guy, I've already covered that in my post 792, in which I made my case against Nobody Special. If there is anything you disagree with or want me to comment on more, tell me so.

[RandomYoshi]

For the matter, what do you think I am? Town or Scum?

[GuyInFreezer]

Town. Very sheepish one.

[RandomYoshi]

I've sadly been very sheepish in this game, yeah. In my first game here, I didn't sheep as much as I have done in this game. I should just drop the sheeping at once.

Anyway, what do you think about my case against Nobody Special?

[RandomYoshi]

kuror0, I see you're down there. Is there anything you'd like to comment on?

[kuror0]

In short, Remembrance is Town because his process of questioning is genuine and consistent, and he wants to confirm people as Town — they way he has been doing this would not bear fruit if he was part of the anti-Town faction of the game. That, and playing like he has done is playing against his wincon if he is anti-Town.

A consistent questioning is in no way a sing of any alignment. I've seen plenty of towns that approach each case their own way. I said this before but town hunting is not a technique i support. 1 mistake will instantly make town lose which is quite a high stake, and good scums can easily act and react in a towny way so it is not reliable in my opinion. Lastly as townhunting is not reliable he is not necessarily playing against his wincon and I actually think if he flips scum one of his so called "Confirmed towns" would be his scum partner, also it is called gambit, high risk high reward, he is exposing himself a lot by using this game style but he has accomplished that a number of people have him as very town. Now if i know something about Remem is that he likes to do everything with a big BANG, so making this kind of gambit would perfectly fit his style.

Note: Yohi if I have something to say, I will, calling me out like that is kind of desperate. As I said before, if I want to hide I will log as Hidden. Unless you have a specific question to me refrain to do something as useless as "Hey, this guy is online, why isn't he posting". I check the thread a lot but sometimes I am also doing other stuff meanwhile, in this particular case I was just typing this post.

[Remembrance]

^ That was really interesting Kuror0! But you have to understand, I wasn't just town hunting, I was picking up on scummy actions as well. Hence why my reads changed so erratically, I was reacting to each new piece of information. So uh, I wasn't just town hunting, I was scum hunting too. Just mostly town hunting.

[Remembrance]

It's just that town are more active, because scum like to lurk, that's all.

[kuror0]

It's just that town are more active, because scum like to lurk, that's all.

This is not generalized. While most scums do tend to stay low on contributions some are pretty active and I've had games where they lead the lynches.

[Remembrance]

Isn't it generalized? On average scum like to lurk. From what I could understand (might be straw manning by mistake) you're using anecdotes to support the opposite case. But they're just that, anecdotes. Generalized means for the most part, not all the time. For the most part scum lurk, for the most part, town don't. You should still look at NS though, he really has been posting everywhere but here.

[Remembrance]

He only posted that one time to contradict and discredit me. (I love you too NS hope you've enjoyed reading me newbie flail )

[GuyInFreezer]

@Kuror0: I agree with you on townhunting vs scumhunting. Also, scumhunting is more fun and satisfactory.

Also, I do hide my login (as some of you probably have realized by now.) Because I'm in like 3 games right now.

@RY: tbh, quite weak. But then, NS didn't post much to begin with. Do you happen to know his town meta? Does he usually lurk this much as town?

Also about lurking, I usually take that a newbscum tell. I'm gonna dig around NS's meta to consolidate my read on him.

[Remembrance]

How is it a gambit anyway? was it strange of me to start suspecting Insanity and Rob13, just because I initially had a town read on them?

[kuror0]

Maybe this is about semantics but what i meant was that it can't be applied to all scums. And therefore I can't just lynch all the lurkers cause they are probably scums. For example I am very lurky, especially in the early stages of the game but that doesn't mean I am scum(As seen in previous games). About NS i actually checked it. He did post a bunch of posts the day he came and asked for some time to catch up, but most of his posts are very short and some are mod posts. After that he only has like 5 posts(in this 2 days) of those 3 or even 4 are mod posts or to join a queue. While it is not a lot of participation it is something and I will take it into account. If you do flip town maybe you will convince me that he is scum.

[kuror0]

How is it a gambit anyway? was it strange of me to start suspecting Insanity and Rob13, just because I initially had a town read on them?

There is a world of difference between that case and this. We had a flip and a lot of discussion to change that read. Here you have been changing reads in matter of 2 or 3 posts, even on the same page i think, so ye... not the same in any way.