Newbie 1336 (OVER)

[JasonWazza]

That's just Ms M normally.

Gonna do that reads list in a second.

[JasonWazza]

Town:

Mr E Roll: Has been giving me massive town vibes all game.
Sven: Seems very town motivated in his pressure on people.

Null:

Ms M: just replaced in haven't got much of a read, though all of her attack seems to be based on WIFOM
Cybertronix: Hasn't really done much at all.
BrightEyedFish: Seems pretty null to me because he hasn't done much.

Scum:

Reham: Seems to me very scummy, most of the reason i'm voting him.

all this is WIFOM Jason, you know this. and that last part was WIFOM and AtE combined, if you wanted to avoid WIFOM, why are you giving us more WIFOM? You're stating things that may not have happened, the reason you used to lynch may not have happened, you're commenting on what may or may not have happened during the night, and you are already setting this all up as if you know you wouldn't have killed claimed JK so that, if you didn't some how get him lynched, you could use him for w/e reasons you wanted.

and why bring up Lynching was good? no one had brought up the prospect of no lynch. we know Lynching is good, I'm pretty sure.

The whole case on me IS WIFOM so the only way to counter it is with more logical WIFOM.

Also it wasn't an appeal to Emotion it was an appeal to intelligence.

[Mr E Roll]

Shows ability to change his read with additional information, also seems like legit concern at being close to lynching someone.

First one on reham for hammering

Shows willingness to discuss, his mind isn’t made up, I think a mafia more likely would just keep pushing his target.

What you see as “an ability to change his read” and a “willingness to change his mind”, I see as an inability to commit. Even with his early suspicions of reham he hedged his bets by just using a FOS. His play seems entirely too safe like he is trying to avoid all suspicion and accountability, as though his major objective is to stay alive instead of finding scum. And it seems to be working although he was also on MrZ’s wagon and also allowed an uncontested JK to be lynched nobody is blaming him or questioning him the way Jason was questioned.

As far as your basing MrZ’s reads on post 103, I love how people keep forgetting his follow up post.

omg merked. I one off'd my last post so bad that I didn't even put everyone in the correct place.
Piss.
Mr E Roll should be null near the bottom and BrightEyedFish should be scum (opportunist voting) and JasonWazza should be scum as well (stretching and misrepresenting basically all over the place).

[BrightEyedFish]

I am not trying to avoid suspicion and accountability. I like to vote only when I feel like a vote is warranted. It may seem like I'm sheeping, but sometimes I just agree with other people's arguments.
The whole MrZ was simply a major town screw up. I do not feel as if anyone person is to blame. It seem that Mr E Roll is fishing for something, but he is looking in the wrong place.

[Svenskt Stål]

I will admit that BEF is looking less good than I thought, especially since he shows up just when people are talking about him. He also didnt offer much of work besides defending himself.

[Messiah]

Newbie 1336 - Vote Count 2.7

---

reham008 [L-1] - Cybertronix, JasonWazza, BrightEyedFish

JasonWazza [L-3] - reham008
BrightEyedFish [L-3] - Mr E Roll

Not Voting (2):

Ms Marangal, Svenskt Stål

With seven alive it takes four to lynch.

---

Phase Deadline:

(expired on 2013-03-25 12:00:00)

[BrightEyedFish]

Here are my reads as of now. I hope this helps bring some substance to the game. I am usually always busy on Weekends, but I found sometime to compile a list.

(Listed from Most Town -> Least Town)

1. JasonWazza
Is actively trying to scumhunt. I do not blame him for the MrZ D1 lynch anymore than myself.

2. Ms Marangal (Captain Ribbit)
This is almost 100% based on my assumptions on Captain Ribbit.He was always pushing for people to answer questions and had a good eye on the game. And then he was gone.

3. Mr E Roll
I have had my suspicions on him but now I think he genuinely wants to help town.

4. Cybertronix
I do not have really much to base my thoughts on. Nothing really town or scum. Null read.

5. Svenskt Stål (AssMuffin)
Based on AssMuffin's post, which almost all were prod-dodging. Null Read.

6. reham008
Reason for voting already stated.

[Svenskt Stål]

So you have no read on what I have done with my posts?

[Mr E Roll]

@BEF I think your reads are superficial but genuine. But why is it that you have not tried to engage Cyber or Sven in any dialogue if you have a null read on them? It’s day two shouldn’t you be actively scum hunting?

UNVOTE: BrightEyedFish

To me it is abundantly clear that AssMuffin was lurking and not absent. He acknowledged game events as they occurred. I believe that he was busy, but not as busy as he would have us believe. I think he was content to watch town self-destruct. It was only when pressured to provide content that he decided to replace out. My theory is that he couldn’t be bothered to manufacture reads. Even in his final post he failed to provide any insights nor did he apologize for replacing out or wish the town good luck. I believe he had so little interest in helping town because he was scum.

Sven’s actions have compounded my suspicions of that slot.

His reads do not seem sincere to me. His town reads on BEF, myself and Cyber appear to me to based on a perceived weakness of our play. This is troubling to me because…

But this is a newbie game, players that havent thought about the game as much and that can be "bullied" into bad decisions.

I don’t think he intends on bullying us but instead intends on winning of over.

I think if Jason is a mafia he would think twice before being rude because its a newbie game and newbies apply alot of feelings into their voting. He would more likely befriend everyone in my opinion.

Additionally he has specifically asked Ms M and Jason for their list of reads, but has failed to do so for the rest of us I believe that is because he thinks our reads are unimportant since he feels he can manipulate us.

Lady, do I look like a follower? I am captaining this vessel.

One other point of concern for me is…

Oh, I keep using the term "wolf" instead of "mafia", its because that the forum I played on before used that setup.

I believe this is a clumsy attempt to lead us to believe he can’t be scum since he doesn’t even know what they are called.

VOTE: Svenskt Stal

[Svenskt Stål]

Wow, just because my predecessor was slacking and lazy dont make me a mafia, try to read MY intentions and actions.
I dont know what you mean by percieved weakness but this is a newbie game so I conclude that some here are inexperienced.
I asked Ms Marangal and Jason because they were active and I wouldnt have to wait a day for an answer.
I keep using "wolf" because I am used to it, I will keep making that misstake althou I try to preview my posts, som get throu. We also used "village" for town and "seer" for cop. But its roleneutral, or "null" as you say, I would say the samething as mafia, because its true.

My reads are weaker on some than others because I havent been interacting with them. If all I have are previously posts than I have a hard time getting a feel for the game, but interactions gets me information and thus my reads change and improve. You need to stop voting people because they change their reads on someone and start looking at WHY they changed the read.

Its also very strange that you drop the heat on BEF when he istarts doing "scummie" stuff, he is obviously reading the thread but only posted in selfdefence and only gave a readlist when I pointed it out. To me it seems like your logic on my predecessor should make you suspicious of BEF, not letting him go! I dont get that, and sincere reads? he only made the effort after I called him out on it.

[JasonWazza]

Oh, I keep using the term "wolf" instead of "mafia", its because that the forum I played on before used that setup.

I believe this is a clumsy attempt to lead us to believe he can’t be scum since he doesn’t even know what they are called.

Most people that play chat mafia or certain forum based mafia's actually use "wolfs" instead of mafia, all it is really is same shit different name.

Even some games on this site use wolfs as a second mafia group.

[Mr E Roll]

Wow, just because my predecessor was slacking and lazy dont make me a mafia, try to read MY intentions and actions.

If your predecessor was lazy scum, you can fix the lazy but you still remain scum.

I dont know what you mean by percieved weakness but this is a newbie game so I conclude that some here are inexperienced.

I believe that your town list reads as a who’s who of the weakest most impressionable players in the game. It seems to me that your intention is to bring those people to the end where you think you can either bully or buddy them into doing whatever you want.

I asked Ms Marangal and Jason because they were active and I wouldnt have to wait a day for an answer.

I wasn’t active? Because you and I were engaged in a conversation between when you asked Jason for his list and Ms M for her list. And if you wanted lists from everybody couldn’t you have just stated that in thread somewhere so that the more lurkerish people could be held accountable more quickly? Definitely seems like you only wanted the read list from certain individuals.

I keep using "wolf" because I am used to it, I will keep making that misstake althou I try to preview my posts, som get throu. We also used "village" for town and "seer" for cop. But its roleneutral, or "null" as you say, I would say the samething as mafia, because its true.

I’m familiar with werewolf and the terms of that game. I don’t find your use of wolf instead of mafia scummy. I find the fact that you pointed it out scummy since it seems to be an attempt to make us newbies believe that you aren’t mafia since you can’t even remember what they are called so you surely weren’t told in your PM.

You need to stop voting people because they change their reads on someone and start looking at WHY they changed the read.

Look he already is trying to tell me what to do. He also is misrepresenting why I changed my vote. Where did I say I changed my vote from BEF to you because somebody changed a read?

Its also very strange that you drop the heat on BEF when he istarts doing "scummie" stuff, he is obviously reading the thread but only posted in selfdefence and only gave a readlist when I pointed it out. To me it seems like your logic on my predecessor should make you suspicious of BEF, not letting him go! I dont get that, and sincere reads? he only made the effort after I called him out on it.

Did I drop the heat on BEF… I think I just turned it down. I still have questions pending for him to answer. I did however turn the heat up on you. One major difference between BEF and your predecessor is that BEF tried to contribute when directly pressured your slot did not.

[Svenskt Stål]

Wow, just because my predecessor was slacking and lazy dont make me a mafia, try to read MY intentions and actions.

If your predecessor was lazy scum, you can fix the lazy but you still remain scum.

The same holds true if he was a townie thou, you cant just take his lazyness without looking at what I have done.

I dont know what you mean by percieved weakness but this is a newbie game so I conclude that some here are inexperienced.

I believe that your town list reads as a who’s who of the weakest most impressionable players in the game. It seems to me that your intention is to bring those people to the end where you think you can either bully or buddy them into doing whatever you want.

This is my first game at this site so I have no idea how things are done here but if I were a mafia I would go for low hanging fruit in the lynches and nk the tough opponents, ifthats what you mean. Also this is a newbie game, there are alot of weaker players, but I was asked to play a game.

I asked Ms Marangal and Jason because they were active and I wouldnt have to wait a day for an answer.

I wasn’t active? Because you and I were engaged in a conversation between when you asked Jason for his list and Ms M for her list. And if you wanted lists from everybody couldn’t you have just stated that in thread somewhere so that the more lurkerish people could be held accountable more quickly? Definitely seems like you only wanted the read list from certain individuals.

If you look at the conversation your apparance is merely a popin, I thusly focused on the players that seemed the most active. I did ask BEF for one thou... do you feel left out? Yes I only wanted the readlist from certain players, the players I was interacting with.

I keep using "wolf" because I am used to it, I will keep making that misstake althou I try to preview my posts, som get throu. We also used "village" for town and "seer" for cop. But its roleneutral, or "null" as you say, I would say the samething as mafia, because its true.

I’m familiar with werewolf and the terms of that game. I don’t find your use of wolf instead of mafia scummy. I find the fact that you pointed it out scummy since it seems to be an attempt to make us newbies believe that you aren’t mafia since you can’t even remember what they are called so you surely weren’t told in your PM.

It cant be an attempt to not confuse newbies?

You need to stop voting people because they change their reads on someone and start looking at WHY they changed the read.

Look he already is trying to tell me what to do. He also is misrepresenting why I changed my vote. Where did I say I changed my vote from BEF to you because somebody changed a read?

I am telling you what to do because I KNOW my role. I KNOW what comes of lynching me. I have no desire whatsoever to be misslynjched in my first game at this site. Stop painting this picture for all to see, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Its also very strange that you drop the heat on BEF when he istarts doing "scummie" stuff, he is obviously reading the thread but only posted in selfdefence and only gave a readlist when I pointed it out. To me it seems like your logic on my predecessor should make you suspicious of BEF, not letting him go! I dont get that, and sincere reads? he only made the effort after I called him out on it.

Did I drop the heat on BEF… I think I just turned it down. I still have questions pending for him to answer. I did however turn the heat up on you. One major difference between BEF and your predecessor is that BEF tried to contribute when directly pressured your slot did not.

You can sum up my predecessors lazyness in how many ways you want. Fact is HE WAS TOWN, HE WAS BUSY/LAZY. I cant help his poor play, I can only do MY best.

[Svenskt Stål]

What a clusterfuck.

[Svenskt Stål]

MR E, my answers are in the qoute.

[Mr E Roll]

The same holds true if he was a townie thou, you cant just take his lazyness without looking at what I have done.

I am looking at what you are doing. However I can not totally disregard your predecessor’s play.

This is my first game at this site so I have no idea how things are done here but if I were a mafia I would go for low hanging fruit in the lynches and nk the tough opponents, ifthats what you mean. Also this is a newbie game, there are alot of weaker players, but I was asked to play a game.

Lowest hanging fruit is reham at L-1 your strongest scum read.

If you look at the conversation your apparance is merely a popin, I thusly focused on the players that seemed the most active. I did ask BEF for one thou... do you feel left out? Yes I only wanted the readlist from certain players, the players I was interacting with.

BEF seemed more active than me? And where did you ask BEF for one? And since we were having a conversation even if you want to describe it as a pop-in wouldn’t that mean we were interacting?

It cant be an attempt to not confuse newbies?

It could be or it could be something more devious as I’ve explained.

I am telling you what to do because I KNOW my role. I KNOW what comes of lynching me. I have no desire whatsoever to be misslynjched in my first game at this site. Stop painting this picture for all to see, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Why do you want me to stop painting this picture? If there is nothing to my accusations what do you have to fear from me bringing them forward? Don’t tell me I am wrong and expect me to believe you, convince me I am wrong by engaging in discussion instead of trying to nip it in the bud.

[Svenskt Stål]

The same holds true if he was a townie thou, you cant just take his lazyness without looking at what I have done.

I am looking at what you are doing. However I can not totally disregard your predecessor’s play.

True, but thats not what you implied, you implied that since my predecessor "was a lazy scum" i.e. your mind is allready made up.

This is my first game at this site so I have no idea how things are done here but if I were a mafia I would go for low hanging fruit in the lynches and nk the tough opponents, ifthats what you mean. Also this is a newbie game, there are alot of weaker players, but I was asked to play a game.

Lowest hanging fruit is reham at L-1 your strongest scum read.

So how is that in any way part of my plan to "save weaker players"? You stated that it seemed like "I was saving weaker players".

If you look at the conversation your apparance is merely a popin, I thusly focused on the players that seemed the most active. I did ask BEF for one thou... do you feel left out? Yes I only wanted the readlist from certain players, the players I was interacting with.

BEF seemed more active than me? And where did you ask BEF for one? And since we were having a conversation even if you want to describe it as a pop-in wouldn’t that mean we were interacting?

I dont even know what you are saying here, if you are asking why I havent asked you for a readlist its because I havent felt a need for it.

I will admit that BEF is looking less good than I thought, especially since he shows up just when people are talking about him. He also didnt offer much of work besides defending himself.

Me implying that BEF only defended himself in his popin, he then posts a readlist.

It cant be an attempt to not confuse newbies?

It could be or it could be something more devious as I’ve explained.

Okay, I´ll buy that.

I am telling you what to do because I KNOW my role. I KNOW what comes of lynching me. I have no desire whatsoever to be misslynjched in my first game at this site. Stop painting this picture for all to see, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Why do you want me to stop painting this picture? If there is nothing to my accusations what do you have to fear from me bringing them forward? Don’t tell me I am wrong and expect me to believe you, convince me I am wrong by engaging in discussion instead of trying to nip it in the bud.

How am I supposed to change your mind when you build your case arround what my predecessor did? No matter what I do your view of him will be the same, which beg the questions why you didnt vote him at some point.

If you reallly have questions ask me and assess my answers, but when you say "look how he is saying what I should do" "He also is misrepresenting why I changed my vote" Like you are putting on a show and not really interested in trying to figure out my thinking, then I get suspicious and very uncooperative.

[JasonWazza]

I am telling you what to do because I KNOW my role. I KNOW what comes of lynching me. I have no desire whatsoever to be misslynjched in my first game at this site. Stop painting this picture for all to see, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Why do you want me to stop painting this picture? If there is nothing to my accusations what do you have to fear from me bringing them forward? Don’t tell me I am wrong and expect me to believe you, convince me I am wrong by engaging in discussion instead of trying to nip it in the bud.

OK just want to say something here, you keep painting picture's but we are here to lynch scum not to make up a billion hypothetical situations.

A townie worth his salt wouldn't want someone saying he is scum so saying "YOUR TRYING TO SILENCE ME SCUMBAG" is fucking retarded beyond belief.

Put forward a decent case that takes into account what he has done as well as what his predecessors done (or direct me to where i missed it because i may have just woken up >.>) and then see how your impression fairs.

[BrightEyedFish]

How am I supposed to change your mind when you build your case arround what my predecessor did? No matter what I do your view of him will be the same, which beg the questions why you didnt vote him at some point.

If you reallly have questions ask me and assess my answers, but when you say "look how he is saying what I should do" "He also is misrepresenting why I changed my vote" Like you are putting on a show and not really interested in trying to figure out my thinking, then I get suspicious and very uncooperative.

We can not completely disregard what your "predecessor" did or didn't post. The role didn't change. I am not saying you are scum nor am I saying you aren't scum.
I did a re-read of only your posts and I feel that you have contributed much more to the discussion than your predecessor but I still have a null read on you.
I don't want you to take out of this that I disagree with you or that I do not think your posts have any substance, I guess I just need more to work with in a matter of speaking.
Also with Marangal replacing in at basically the same time as you, the tone of the game has shifted and it just seems like we only have half a story to work here and we are just trying to fill in the blanks and connections between you and marangal and your respective predecessors.

[BrightEyedFish]

Ok, back to reham. He has been at L-1 for awhile now and I believe he has quit the game (over 5 days since last post).

How do you think we should proceed here. Something tells me that we should just go on and lynch reham. As of right now, I do not think anyone else is deserving of a lynch.

Or should we wait on a replacement before a hammer?

[JasonWazza]

Never should you hammer an empty slot.

[JasonWazza]

How am I supposed to change your mind when you build your case arround what my predecessor did? No matter what I do your view of him will be the same, which beg the questions why you didnt vote him at some point.

If you reallly have questions ask me and assess my answers, but when you say "look how he is saying what I should do" "He also is misrepresenting why I changed my vote" Like you are putting on a show and not really interested in trying to figure out my thinking, then I get suspicious and very uncooperative.

We can not completely disregard what your "predecessor" did or didn't post. The role didn't change. I am not saying you are scum nor am I saying you aren't scum.
I did a re-read of only your posts and I feel that you have contributed much more to the discussion than your predecessor but I still have a null read on you.
I don't want you to take out of this that I disagree with you or that I do not think your posts have any substance, I guess I just need more to work with in a matter of speaking.
Also with Marangal replacing in at basically the same time as you, the tone of the game has shifted and it just seems like we only have half a story to work here and we are just trying to fill in the blanks and connections between you and marangal and your respective predecessors.

Also i recommend that you generally only use a predecessor for a case rather then an overall read, Backup with the fact that the predecessor seemed scummy but sometimes the person is just a bad player (i could link a few of my replace ins but from memory i can't think of a town replace in from a bad slot in the past.)

[Mr E Roll]

True, but thats not what you implied, you implied that since my predecessor "was a lazy scum" i.e. your mind is allready made up.

I was attempting to demonstrate how Muffin’s actions could be scum motivated. I then coupled this with my suspicions of you since entering the game. Your rebuttal was just because Muffin was lazy doesn’t mean you are scum. But if Muffin was lazy because he was scum then you are scum even if you aren’t lazy. I believe that you being scum is my strongest theory right now so in that sense yes my mind is made up. This does not mean that I will not consider other theories or consider new information as it appears.

So how is that in any way part of my plan to "save weaker players"? You stated that it seemed like "I was saving weaker players".

Reham is the lowest hanging fruit, but he is not the weakest most easily manipulated player. In fact he is in such trouble because of his reckless independent play style. Getting rid of him quickly would fit in nicely with your self identified scum meta and my theory that you want players easy to manipulate at endgame.

I dont even know what you are saying here, if you are asking why I havent asked you for a readlist its because I havent felt a need for it.

My initial premise was that you only asked for certain read lists because you didn’t value others since you could manipulate other people more easily. You responded that you only asked for certain read lists based on activity and interaction. I attempted to show this was not true since I was more active than BEF and was interacting with you,

Me implying that BEF only defended himself in his popin, he then posts a readlist.

Accusing some one of only defending themselves is nowhere near the same as asking for a read list.

How am I supposed to change your mind when you build your case arround what my predecessor did? No matter what I do your view of him will be the same, which beg the questions why you didnt vote him at some point.

You won’t change my mind by insisting that I only think you’re scum based on Muffin. I didn't vote for Muffin since I only had his lurkerish behaviour to go on. Now I have a read list that doesn't seem genuine and a theory of a more experienced aggressive scum looking to exploit the weakness and vulnerablity of a newb town.

If you reallly have questions ask me and assess my answers, but when you say "look how he is saying what I should do" "He also is misrepresenting why I changed my vote" Like you are putting on a show and not really interested in trying to figure out my thinking, then I get suspicious and very uncooperative.

Some players might say that getting suspicious and uncooperative would be overly defensive and a scum tell. If you are town I understand the suspicion because I would be attacking a confirmed town in your view but why would you be uncooperative how is that helpful to town?

[BrightEyedFish]

Never should you hammer an empty slot.

Ok. Noted.

[Mr E Roll]

OK just want to say something here, you keep painting picture's but we are here to lynch scum not to make up a billion hypothetical situations.

Ok Mr. Expert how do we find scum without coming up with a hypothetical situation.

Do we speculate on the hypothetical night kill motive like you did against Ribbit? Oh wait that is a hypothetical situation.