The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[Benmage]

anti proddodge.. know I suck

ended up moving this weekeend, with rugby stpatty etc mafia had a backburner.

[camn]

Hmm. Lets do this.

UNVOTE
VOTE: BENMAGE.

case to follow.. when I get a minute.
It turns out Ben is scum after all... and must die.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 4, Votecount 6

JasonT1981 (1) - Benmage
camn (2) - ChannelDeliBird, Shaft
Benmage (2) - Deasvail, camn

Not voting (4) :

Cerulean, Plessiezarus, JasonT1981, kuribo

• With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 25th of March at 3:40am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-24 23:40:28)
  
• No one is V/la.

[camn]

OK-
Day 1 play:

@absta's 5 pages in 24 hours is pretty standard, if not actually a little slow for the start of a 19p game. I wouldn't have been surprised to see 10.
--It seems like a pre-excuse, when the game hasn't moved quickly. Hell there's been comments on how slow it's actually moving.

OK. Previously.. I had WIFOMed myself into thinking this was a Benmage townpost.
I thought, Jeez... that looks like he is really prying a screwdriver into absta. This is something that could actually get a case built up on later in the game.. and Ben-Scum would have known that.. and avoided it, so as not to get his partner killed.
but now I am contemplating Ben's subtlety.
I, of course, understand that bussing goes LONG AND DEEP.. and something like this- calling out your partner's crapplay as actual crapplay is just the kind of thing that I would do as scum, to get just the reaction from players like myself.
td:lr: I may have oversimplified the Mage's capacity for bussing.

Significance?
Well.. he needles at absta.. he prys a LITTLE BIT.

-Why out of everything you've missed did you pick this thing out to note?

Abstas your earlier post was around 150.... You pull a few posts around the 200-220’s.... What or where are you in your catchup?

Slight scum:
absta101

But then what? Absta didnt get any better.. but Ben backs off:

abstas irks me, but it might just be playstyle + inexperience.

post 518
^abstas is terrible at this.

And actually calls for the hammer to pre-empt what ended up to be a pretty furious town vs. scum:

I don't have the energy to read this camnvabstas....

----------------------[]

Conclusion? THis is Subtle, professional bussing on the part of Benmage. Poking, but no cutting. Talk, but no votes.

------------
General points:

The dragon will awaken as it always does. Period.

Ok. When?
Here?

I only read the kuribo one... I can;t do this now.. sory.

Here?

Yes, I've been procrastinating, I promise to get something more substantial tonight.

HERE?

Ughh I think playing rugby below 40 got me sick. Fighting something so I still havent done anything.

OK- maybe thats petty.. but the 'waking the dragon' line feels funny to me. Like he is nervous about catching heat, and trying to bluff his way out pre-emptively.
ACTUALLY OF COURSE!- like he himself says- its a PRE-EXCUSE.
THe pre-excuse scumtell as a freudian slip?

More to come... when I get another few minutes:)

[Shaft]

I'll have to examine that when I wake up tonight/tomorrow

[Shaft]

I think some of those points were already brought up or I myself looked them over. If someone can confirm they were brought up before (re: subtle bussing of absta), I'd like to know why it took so long for you camn to push this.

Weird saying this but yeah, that all looks good

[Shaft]

Derp on my part for not researching
Sorry for triple post

Ben always makes bold plays, but I particularly liked his stance D4. Only thing I would find sus' about him are the absta interactions. Otherwise, he's not someone I'm urging to hang.

[Cerulean]

Derp on my part for not researching
Sorry for triple post

Ben always makes bold plays, but I particularly liked his stance D4. Only thing I would find sus' about him are the absta interactions. Otherwise, he's not someone I'm urging to hang.

What day 4 stance? Today's day 4.

That said we thought what Camn brought up was suspicious and considered Benmage as a target last night, but we couldn't justify it. Other than the absta interactions, there were several posts that read town to us and Empire has been over his iso probably about 10 times trying to nail down his read because he's paranoid his town read is wrong, but he keeps coming back town. He's also been over his scum games several times and keeps coming to town but with paranoid reservations.

[camn]

I'd like to know why it took so long for you camn to push this.

I, Like many, Have had a town read on him. But part of me really expected him to DECLARE himself with townie righteousness as the game progressed, which hasnt happened.
And now.. I am at a loss scum-wise.
I look back at Jason, and I still cant get over the authenticity of his so -called gambit. I hate his play. I want him to be scum... but I think he might be town.
Whereas BEN- I generally LOVE his play, though he has fallen off these last few weeks.... I WANT him to be town.. but I think he is scum.

[DeasVail]

Cerulean, I would love to sheep you on Ben-town, but I just don't know who else to vote for!

[Plessiezarus]

Hmm. So, in the neighborhood, I made one post explaining I was a bit suspicious of CDB but didn't want to push him yet because I was hoping [a third player, who I won't name for now], who I also wanted a better read on, would push him first. I'm not exactly thrilled that DV went ahead and revealed my suspicions in this thread anyway, especially because he doesn't seem to have any interest in actually pushing CDB as a suspect. In fact, DV doesn't seem to have enough suspects at all:

At least tentatively, the town are Cerulean, Plessiez, Camn, Kuribo, CDB [...] I would be really happy to call Jason scum, but I keep going back to TGAH's vote which does seem weird. [... the idea that it's] part of a bussing plan just doesn't seem right to me at the moment. [...] And Kise I want to accept as the expensive doctor role thing for now.

Maybe I have a townread or two wrong, I don't know

You're (at least provisionally) town-reading

everyone but Benmage

in this post. And you "don't know" if you have any townreads wrong? How many scum are left?

Anyway, CDB. My main problem isn't so much his agreeing with my suspicions on DV (though I'm a bit wary of anybody who quickly agrees with me, especially in this game where my track record should hardly be inspiring such confidence). After all, I do think DV looks bad (or, at the very least, nowhere near as town as the neighborhood were suggesting on day 3).

My main issue with CDB was actually the tone of 2738. CDB's talk of "being in a good position" and urging us to "blaze through by PoE" just seems ... wildly optimisitc, really? It looks like the town's played terribly ever since day 2 began. We've not lynched any scum, we've let a third-party player achieve their wincon, and if CDB is right to suspect Benmage and Camn we haven't even really attempted the weakest of wagons on scum. Given all that, kuribo's paranoia and cerulean's apparent apathy are much more the sort of attitude I'd expect from town. Not the "victory is but a hair's breadth away!" confidence that I'm reading from CDB.

I'd like to know why it took so long for you camn to push this.

I, Like many, Have had a town read on him. But part of me really expected him to DECLARE himself with townie righteousness as the game progressed, which hasnt happened.

Feeling very paranoid about Benmage right now myself. Don't think the lack of "townie righteousness" is such a useful tell though? I mean, I've read a few (years old) Benmage town games where he had plenty of this attitude, but I remember him being much more subdued than I expected in ADWD (where he was town). I'm not sure TGAH would have faked their early hydra dissonance re:Benmage (with one reading him as town and one as scum) if Benmage were a Cop, either.

(I'm kind of hoping to make Zar do most of the scum-hunting today, since he's been overly smug in our QT about correctly reading BT . He's been pretty busy IRL though, so meh.)

~ Pless

[kuribo]

I've seen Ben as lazy town but this feels different somehow.

My town read on Ben has mostly stemmed from his reactions to my spat with him, though I admit I've read people wrong before when it comes to that

[Cerulean]

I just realized that deadline is five days away, not 10. I don't know why I was thinking there were more days.

Yes I know useless post is useless.

[jasonT1981]

back later this evening. gotta make dinner first.

[Shaft]

Derp on my part for not researching
Sorry for triple post

Ben always makes bold plays, but I particularly liked his stance D4. Only thing I would find sus' about him are the absta interactions. Otherwise, he's not someone I'm urging to hang.

What day 4 stance? Today's day 4.

Episode 4? *shrug*
Lost count.

@camn, I get that, but I'm just wondering why today you're using the absta interactions as a case (with passion) when it was always there in our faces.

CDB hasn't been a problem for me. As a refresher, why did you all (if you once suspected him) find him town after pushing him days ago?

[Plessiezarus]

What day 4 stance? Today's day 4.

Episode 4? *shrug*
Lost count.

Episode 4 was night 2. So, um. This doesn't actually make sense?

CDB hasn't been a problem for me

. As a refresher, why did you all (if you once suspected him) find him town after pushing him days ago?

This is a very good question (I'm pretty sure you said the case on CDB looked "reasonable" on day 2 though ). I'm definitely struggling to remember why I was persuaded CDB looked town. On a reread, he looks pretty bad. He got talkative when it looked like he was going to be the lynch, and people seemed to get cold feet, but the day 2 case on him still makes sense to me. And since then he's done nothing that makes me read him as town. His current attitude really feels off, too.

(Actually,

CDB

- looking at your iso, your suspicions of Benmage today kind of come out of nowhere. You've repeatedly town-read Benmage up until today. On day 2 you were "happy to assume he was town". On day 3 you claimed to reread him and decided he was a "reasonably solid town read". But then suddenly on day 4 you're "very confident" Benmage is scum and urge us to "blaze through this with PoE"? I just don't see where that came from -- you'd already read Benmage multiple times, apparently, and this time you decided you were "very confident" your previous reads had been completely wrong? Please explain more about why you reread day 1 and what exactly you were looking for when you did so.)

At the moment I'd rather lynch CDB than Benmage (and I'm simply not interested in anybody else today).

(Also, "Shaft", did you ever explain why you switched to an alt? Please do so, or direct me to the relevant link. Thanks.)



~ Pless

[camn]

I could obviously get behind a CDB Lynch.

Shaft- today is the day I took a second look at BenMage. That's why today.

[Shaft]

alrightalrightalright I'll fuck off.

UNVOTE

Ples...um...I guess it was D2 or 3 then. What day is this?

I'm pretty sure you said the case on CDB looked "reasonable" on day 2 though

Can't say I remember it but if it's in my iso then yeah, lol. Maybe I said reasonable as in it didn't look like crap being pushed by the scum. If I didn't vote CDB or his pursuers, then that's prob what I meant by reasonable..and I'm pretty sure I at least didn't vote CDB

BUT HEY I've been wrong about a shitload of people so let's roll the dice amirite.

[camn]

Youamrite.

Can a sister get a real wagon around here?
THIS TOWN NEEDS AN ENEMA!

[camn]

I want Bemmage at L-1 by the time I get home tomorrow.

[Plessiezarus]

Ples...um...I guess it was D2 or 3 then. What day is this?

Not only does it say the current day

in every single vote-count

(including the one at the top of this page), but you literally just replied to a post in which Cerulean told you this:

Ben always makes bold plays, but I particularly liked his stance D4. Only thing I would find sus' about him are the absta interactions. Otherwise, he's not someone I'm urging to hang.

What day 4 stance? Today's day 4.

What stance of Benmage's did you like, specifically? What was it about, if you can't remember when it happened?

(And answer my other question too -- why did you decide to switch to the "Shaft" alt?)

~ Pless

[ChannelDelibird]

This is a very good question (I'm pretty sure you said the case on CDB looked "reasonable" on day 2 though ). I'm definitely struggling to remember why I was persuaded CDB looked town. On a reread, he looks pretty bad. He got talkative when it looked like he was going to be the lynch, and people seemed to get cold feet, but the day 2 case on him still makes sense to me. And since then he's done nothing that makes me read him as town. His current attitude really feels off, too.

Yes, I got particularly talkative when I was trying to stop myself being lynched. This should not be a surprise. I've said what I needed to since to make my cases and explain my point of view. What haven't I been saying since then that I should? I've made clear how I feel and done the work to justify it.

I don't think that my attitude is that weird - yes, we've lynched a bunch of town players but I'm not going to have a crisis of confidence about it. I'm happy with my townreads and, frankly, I don't see why you should have a problem with that given that you have pretty much exactly the same set of townreads. That's why I'm working on PoE and I went back overnight to make sure I was on the right track. I think, given the evidence, that I am.

(Actually,

CDB

- looking at your iso, your suspicions of Benmage today kind of come out of nowhere. You've repeatedly town-read Benmage up until today. On day 2 you were "happy to assume he was town". On day 3 you claimed to reread him and decided he was a "reasonably solid town read". But then suddenly on day 4 you're "very confident" Benmage is scum and urge us to "blaze through this with PoE"? I just don't see where that came from -- you'd already read Benmage multiple times, apparently, and this time you decided you were "very confident" your previous reads had been completely wrong? Please explain more about why you reread day 1 and what exactly you were looking for when you did so.)

IIRC, I was "happy to assume Benmage is town" because he was the first person Zdenek targeted - there wasn't really much happening around Benmage at the time so I pretty much filed the two of them away together under "deal with this later". It probably should have been more of a "happy to not even consider for lynching atm" than "assume is town" but didn't really matter at the time.

You'll notice that I have been periodically rereading certain people to "refresh" my read on them because I'd forgotten why I had them down in my notes as whatever read. Benmage was pretty much one of those - last night it became clear that he was one of those I'd have to take a closer look at given my stronger townreads and the fact that he wasn't just there to corroborate Zdenek any more.

I'm pretty sure I hadn't read Benmage very often compared to others - I'd be interested to see where you got this idea from. I've always been clear about who my next rereads are intended to be and when exactly I've got round to carrying out those reads. Benmage definitely hadn't had much attention from me before last night.

As for specifically why "the main focus of my read was Day 1", my intention was to reread the whole game but I got stuck at the end of Night 1 because of time/getting distracted etc. Plus at that point I had plenty of evidence that made sense with my current read of the game - i.e. camn and Benmage as scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hang on, just checked my own iso and found out why you thought I'd reread Benmage more frequently.

Can't really be arsed to finish my iso but basically, Benmage is a reasonably solid townread, particularly if camn is scum.

I haven't kept the notes I made from this read, annoyingly, and I'm not sure why I came to this conclusion at the time. I wish I had a better answer for you than that.

[ChannelDelibird]

But let me be clear about this: I am absolutely not going to let you people lynch me in this game. I have done too much work and put too much into it. Camn, who could apparently "obviously get behind" my lynch despite admitting things like "has been playing better" today and "CDB has persuaded me he might be town" yesterday, knows I've put the effort in and is having to fake a scumread while putting in the requisite respect for my effort so that she can apologise about it when I flip. I don't know why I read Benmage as town before but I sure as hell know why I read him as town now. Pless, for someone who's just read me over and gone "I don't know why I thought this was town before", you have to understand that that happens.

[Plessiezarus]

I'm pretty sure I hadn't read Benmage very often compared to others - I'd be interested to see where you got this idea from.

Um. I got it from your day 3 posts? The ones I linked to, even. In particular, from this exchange you had with Benmage:

@CDB

why are you reading camn?[...]

I'm currently reading camn and you in iso, [...]

Can't really be arsed to finish my iso but basically, Benmage is a reasonably solid townread, particularly if camn is scum.

And yet, today ... you're pushing the idea that Benmage and camn are both scum

together

, and we can just "blaze through" with PoE.

When did you first start to seriously suspect Benmage?

~ Pless