Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[SafetyDance]

FFS, you said yourself you agree with my NS argument before but now you're saying you don't understand anything? I think its you who's not making any sense. And you're just trying to appropriate reasons to fit a read instead of the other way round.

GM agreed with me before, she must be my scum buddy too! I'm loving this (lack of) logic.

Wut? Completely misrepped my opinion on NS, good try though. I'm loving this too, all your posts start with [example of how crazy/stupid other player is] and end with [sarcastic comment indicating how you're the only pro-town player*]

The thing is, you're not. And the more you beat your chest about it, the scummier you look.

Hey everyone, Safety is yelling any sort of opportunistic bullshit about anyone and calling it scum-play.

• eg. No 2 kills last night = edo instant scum for even mentioning the possibility of SK
  Cheery says something about something = call it a slip and vote him
  No vote on NS, FoS instead = PoPP NS' scumbuddy, easy tell, scum caught

Can we hang him from the treetops already?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Safety

*mental Safety note: use "rolleyes" smilie for added emphasis

Smoke and Mirrors and by virtue of mimicking, calling the pot black.

I guess you didn't say this:

For a start, I'm not a fan of Nobody Special's

"people haven't posted yet, how scummy of them, they must be scum, and that is an adequate defence for me not being scum"

doesn't sit well. Firstly, not everyone late to the game are part of the nefarious scum, drooling at the chaos town have already caused for each other. Secondly, I'd find it just as likely (if not more so) that scum are already posting, just not posting content... just like NS.

or this:

...I'm all the more confused as to why you moved your vote, since I was

agreeing

with the point you were making about NS.

or this:

...And I watched him scoot around on the site elsewhere at will for those 6 hours as well. I've seen people needling him for days on end for thoughts, explanations, elaborations etc. for him to eventually swan in, give a crummy line or two and swan away again. Now I'm not going to turn into "that guy", the "you aren't active enough here" nazi, but I'd rather nip this in the bud quickly with NS (

~ blatant paraphrasing of my earlier post btw

). If he's got time to surf around the site, he's got time to come back here and give a follow-up to anything he's posted. Besides, it's not like we're playing fucking correspondence chess. Although there are oceans between us we live in an instantaneous age, of internet and magnets and shit.

Previous response semi-related. And on that note I, for one, refuse to leave NS alive for LYLO.

Nope, not at all. So where are all the posts exclaiming NS is town?

Spoiler:

Oh right.

implosion why are you acting as Safety's drawbridge?

Whenever an argumentative knight comes galloping towards Safety's castle you're all like

"raise the bridge!"

and Safety can cower safely in his self-constructed ivory tower.

But really, why?

You can get fucked calling me a coward. It should be blatantly obvious that I am perfectly capable of defending myself again you're infantile, asinine accusations you call reads. What other people do is up to themselves.

Would you like one of these?

Spoiler:

Because it's all you seem to be doing. But hey, the more you beat your chest doing it, the scummier you look. You did the same in your vitriolic spewfest against GM between 389-443, I'm amazed you didn't get on the wagon. In fact putting your diatribes aside, you get scum points just for you're bullshit tunnelling on GM whilst her wagon was building and not voting her and despite your "intent" to hammer and with ample opportunity, passing it up. HD should like this one.

P-edit:

Your message contains too many smilies. The maximum number of smilies allowed is 12.

Lulz

[SafetyDance]

implosion and SafetyDance are scum together. I can almost guarantee it.

and what happens if either of them flip town (and since my reads currently point that way, I'd like to see this guaratee have more behind it than apparent parroting.)

But then I also think you're faking your hunt.

VOTE: Human Destroyer

Yep, getting this feeling too. Not only for the reasons stated by numerous players that his day by day play is completely unhelpful, it doesn't even appear that he's seriously read anything from day one when he replaced in....which is illogical as town.

Spoiler: HD quotes

Apozzle (5) ac1983fan, Human Destroyer, Cheery Dog, Belisarius, SafetyDance

I'm assuming there's scum on this wagon.

It isn't me, and I have a townread on ac1983fan. That leaves Cheery (previously town), Beli (previously null-scum), and Safety (previously scum).

Hmmmm.

I'd wager one of {Belisarius, SafetyDance} is scum, but not both.

goodmorning

(7)

Cub Diagoro

, Zaicon, Edosurist,

Apozzle

, Nobody Special, Cheery Dog, implosion

I find it interesting that both Belisarius and SafetyDance had their votes off this lynch, but not Apozzle.

This looks like they want to avoid being on two town wagons.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SafetyDance for now.

I'll reread the other 5, but I'm sure there's at least one scum in them.

I love that you completely ignore CONTEXT here. So you moved on from re-reading day 1 and giving trivial statements to now just iso'ing the VC? Way to admit that you haven't even bothered reading the thread.

Why was my vote on Apozzle? Because of Cub's blatant coaching/buddying in #476. He claimed, so did Cub and we now have a clear town today. You would notice, if you paid attention, my vote was off him less than half a day after I voted him. Which is all in #501. I gave my reasons for not being on the GM in #604. I didn't have a scum read on her, so unless faced with a NL why would I join her let. Again, paying attention, you'd see I had plenty of targets I'd rather had lynched.

So trying to use VC on me here is ridiculous.

Either you've failed to read, which is bad, or you're just choosing to ignore all the facts laid out for you, which is bad as well.

But wait there's more, does #661 need a makeover or what.

I've already explained why; I think,

with no reasoning other than a 5/11 chance of being right

, there was one (probably only one) scum on the Apozzle wagon, and those two both happened to be on the lynch.

I don't think Cheery Dog is scum because he was on both of the wagons and that'd look pretty bad in vote analysis later on but I'm going to look at him anyway.

Blah, blah blah, WIFOM.

I have a townread on ac...

that I have never given a reason for.

Therefore, one of the two is scum.

It's actually very simple

PoE

bullshit

.

Vote: Human Destroyer

[SafetyDance]

HD deciding to Play-by-Play day one supports

GM's theory he's third paty

, regardless of it tying him to reads later its not helping any play this day, right now. So hopefully that gets done away with (or a.s.a.p)

Which reminds me of this.

Not sure what the hell this has to do with me being SK.

Like, at all.

Forgot this. Step by step guide for you.

1. Stare at the bolded and large text in my quote.
2. Process it.
3. Look at GM's Post 511
4. Connect the dots.

Congratulations, you've gained the power of understanding!

[Human Destroyer]

Wow, nice OMGUS.

I've always subscribed to the "at least one, but not all scum are on most wagons" (although admittedly I've seen exceptions).

Your dismissing of my argument as WIFOM doesn't make it any less correct.

If you don't have a townread on ac, you're not reading the game. I'll explain it when I have more time if I really still have to baby you through it.

(I just read the last quote so)

P-Edit: Except you've never seen me replace into a game, so saying I'm not matching replacement meta isn't even valid?

[SafetyDance]

To get it in one clear post. People I'd like to lynch today:

NS - Obvious. Has he even done anything today? Notice he lurked like fuck but still joined the lynch d1? Alarm bells much people? If we ML twice in a row and he makes it to D3 I will rage.
HD - fake-hunting, wasting time, not reading thread properly or ignoring things entirely
Pie - massively tunnelling, focus on himself, largely unhelpful, afraid to be on a wagon

Edo - Backup. Looking scummy, dead town's top read d1, hasn't done a lot. Lynch has traction if I can't get people to agree to the other three
CD - Cooled off his lynch, so he's a fallback.

That's in order. HD get's the vote for reasons summarised and listed above in more detail but I'm not going to persist with beating a dead horse about NS, if people agree and want him lynched then of course I'll vote him.

[SafetyDance]

Wow, nice OMGUS.

I've always subscribed to the "at least one, but not all scum are on most wagons" (although admittedly I've seen exceptions).

Your dismissing of my argument as WIFOM doesn't make it any less correct.

If you don't have a townread on ac, you're not reading the game. I'll explain it when I have more time if I really still have to baby you through it.

(I just read the last quote so)

P-Edit: Except you've never seen me replace into a game, so saying I'm not matching replacement meta isn't even valid?

You're playing like third alignment, so replacement meta doesn't enter into it. You're still strawmanning because that's the source of why I mentioned, so please stop trying to use the Susan method of just deflecting everything back.

"Your dismissing of my argument as OMGUS doesn't make it any less correct."

Does that get us anywhere?

[Human Destroyer]

Wow, nice OMGUS.

I've always subscribed to the "at least one, but not all scum are on most wagons" (although admittedly I've seen exceptions).

Your dismissing of my argument as WIFOM doesn't make it any less correct.

If you don't have a townread on ac, you're not reading the game. I'll explain it when I have more time if I really still have to baby you through it.

(I just read the last quote so)

P-Edit: Except you've never seen me replace into a game, so saying I'm not matching replacement meta isn't even valid?

You're playing like third alignment

, so replacement meta doesn't enter into it.

You're still strawmanning because that's the source of why I mentioned, so please stop trying to use the Susan method of just deflecting everything back.

"Your dismissing of my argument as OMGUS doesn't make it any less correct."

Does that get us anywhere?

@Bolded: Let's nightkill analyze, smart guy.

If I'm an SK like you say I am, why was there only one kill last night? Why was it on confirmed town that didn't even really care about me? Why do I, as

SK

(keyword: not groupscum), need confirmed town dead?

If you can't effectively figure that out, then congratulations, you've realized I'm not the SK! Give yourself a pat on the back.

@Underlined: Restate this in English please.

@Italicized: It's not like your calling it WIFOM got it anywhere. So my rebuttal is probably not going to be much better.

[Human Destroyer]

Wait, hold on a second, why are you SK hunting? SK hunting is scum motivated in every way.

[Human Destroyer]

Wait, hold on a second, why are you SK hunting? SK hunting is scum motivated in every way.

EBWOP: Especially when there isn't anything to suggest the possibility of an SK even being in the game.

[ac1983fan]

Wow, nice OMGUS.

It's not OMGUS unless that is literally the only reason provided for a vote. His reasons for voting you seemingly have nothing to do with your vote on him, other than the fact that your vote seems to just be uninformed sheeping.

[Cheery Dog]

I've always subscribed to the "at least one, but not all scum are on most wagons" (although admittedly I've seen exceptions).

But you're going only one scum on the wagon in this instance?
There is a possibility of there being 3 mafia members, so why is it just the one likely on the wagon?

P-Edit: Except you've never seen me replace into a game, so saying I'm not matching replacement meta isn't even valid?

If I may butt in here, your replacement/catch=up style is completely different from the games I've seen you replace into. (and seeing as that was replacing into 4 at once, 3 of which I was involved in somehow, I think I might know your replace-in meta), or at least that part of it that had you rereading threads and not doing a page by page analysis.
The closest to what I've seen you do elsewhere was a "vote analysis" where you just listed all the votes that had been cast in the game, and you were scum there, so yeah.

[Human Destroyer]

But you're going only one scum on the wagon in this instance?
There is a possibility of there being 3 mafia members, so why is it just the one likely on the wagon?

It could be two, but I'm looking at who's on it and the order in which they got on it and I see one. I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be two, but I think there's only one on it.

P-Edit: Except you've never seen me replace into a game, so saying I'm not matching replacement meta isn't even valid?

If I may butt in here, your replacement/catch=up style is completely different from the games I've seen you replace into. (and seeing as that was replacing into 4 at once, 3 of which I was involved in somehow, I think I might know your replace-in meta), or at least that part of it that had you rereading threads and not doing a page by page analysis.
The closest to what I've seen you do elsewhere was a "vote analysis" where you just listed all the votes that had been cast in the game, and you were scum there, so yeah.

Oh I'm well aware I'm doing this differently, I'm doing it on purpose

I'm just saying if he's going to call me out on it he should at least know my replacement meta

Also that game's technically ongoing, and I don't speak of that game for more reasons than that >.< (Am I thinking of the right game?)

[implosion]

If you don't have a townread on ac, you're not reading the game. I'll explain it when I have more time if I really still have to baby you through it.

This quote makes me want to punch a barrel full of kittens.

He isn't saying that he doesn't have a townread on ac. He's asking for

your specific reasoning

for that townread which you've failed to give. He is not disputing the read, nor is he affirming it.

Please actually

read

what people are saying... it makes me sad, because i don't think you're intentionally misrepresenting what was said... but you aren't responding to what safety asked. You're wholly sidestepping the question. It infuriates me when you completely ignore the questions that are being asked and then take a high ground with your tone in posts like 681. For the record, it doesn't infuriate me that safety is taking a similar tone, because he's actually addressing points that are being made towards him as they are.

If I want your reasoning for a townread on ac, i might have two reasons for that. I might want to read ac better,

or i might want to read YOU better.

Asking people to explain reads allows us to read not only those people whose reads they explain, but also the person explaining.

"I think ac is self-evidently town" is not reasoning. It's balogna. Saying ac is self-evidently town does not make it true, just like saying that the sun self-evidently rotates around the earth does not make it true. In fact he didn't have ac on his list of people he'd like to lynch today, so i'd wager at worst he has ac as a nullread.

[implosion]

Also, HD, note that the above is not me calling you scum. I'm unsure of your alignment right now.

[Apozzle]

Beli, eventually you have to stop with the cagey bullshit. I do not know what game you are trying to play, and I do not care. You need to put an end to it.

---

So. I pretty much agree with a lot of what Safety is saying. Much of what he has said either agrees with what I have been reading. Safety is inching ever further into townier territory.

I was suspicious of HD during day one, and between his "Super Awesome Day One Reread Funtime", his misdirection, his self-WIFOMing, and his self-meta arguments, my suspicion has only grown. Basically, he was scummy when he was doing nothing, and he is scummier now that he has opened his mouth.

Vote: HD

[Apozzle]

EBWOP: Wow, did I gramatically butcher that middle bit or what? I think I tried to write the same thing twice in there.

[implosion]

See, I really,

really

dislike a lot of HD's play. But my gut still says he's being genuine. I don't think his misdirection is intentional (if I understand how you're using that word), I don't think his self-meta is a scumtell (frankly, self-meta is almost never a scumtell, i do it all the time). I think he's wrong on a lot of things but the more i look at him the less i think he's doing it because he's scum. The way he said he was "hard-resetting", the way he's responding to the sk talk, etc... i think (weakly) that he's town the more that i look at him. I would be happy if he was scum, but I don't think he is.

[pieceofpecanpie]

FFS, you said yourself you agree with my NS argument before but

now you're saying you don't understand anything

?

Good job misrepping me some more. Your counter-argument is bunk. I understand plenty. I understand that you're not looking town and I understand that you can't read.

So where are all the posts exclaiming NS is town?

Listen dunderhead, if you're going to spend the whole game using little initiative except to craft aggressive counter-attacks on players at least learn how to read what's being said. Did I say NS was town? Nope.

You may recall I said this? (you can read all of it, but at least do the underlined bits)

And for my final thought let's talk briefly about NS. NS is thus-far useless. Lurking, scummy, vague you name it. There is no way I want to see NS coast into Lylo at this rate.

However, NS can also be the go-to name for anyone who wants to derail any current discussion.

Start a bit of open speculation about someone's post and anyone can barge in yelling "NS is scummy! Kill him!" and the thread will collapse into a session of scumminess of lurking vs his meta and so forth.

I'd much rather if the suspicion was cast on people making those sorts of easy calls, rather than NS himself for the time being.

implosion why are you acting as Safety's drawbridge?

Whenever an argumentative knight comes galloping towards Safety's castle you're all like

"raise the bridge!"

and Safety can cower safely in his self-constructed ivory tower.

But really, why?

You can get fucked calling me a coward. It should be blatantly obvious that I am perfectly capable of defending myself again you're infantile, asinine accusations you call reads. What other people do is up to themselves.

Heeeey, settle pettle. You are perfectly capable of defending yourself. It's not so much a defence though, as an opportunity to flex your counter-attack muscles. Is that really productive? You know what I don't see you doing: taking initiative to put forward cases, or push lynches. Is that because you're a coward?

Oh yeah, would you like one of these?

Spoiler:

That's what you're doing with NS, and beyond that you're just blasting away like a senile old man at anyone who invades your space. And yet, no vote on NS...

People I'd like to lynch today:
NS - Obvious. Has he even done anything today? Notice he lurked like fuck but still joined the lynch d1? Alarm bells much people? If we ML twice in a row and he makes it to D3 I will rage.

And yet, no vote on NS...

I'm noticing an emerging pattern from Safety where what he says isn't quite lining up with what he's doing.

You did the same in your vitriolic spewfest against GM between 389-443, I'm amazed you didn't get on the wagon. In fact putting your diatribes aside, you get scum points just for you're bullshit tunnelling on GM whilst her wagon was building and not voting her and despite your "intent" to hammer and with ample opportunity, passing it up.

Oh again, I'm not surprised that your cheap shots completely misrepresent what actually happened:

Alright, I want to get a few last thoughts down as a summary and then hammer this thing. I hope no one minds too much that it's not last second, I don't consider it likely that more fresh voices will enter in the last hour or so [...]

Damnit!

People have appeared out of the woodwork.

I'm off to grab a beer now, so I have to pass hammer duties on to someone else in case I don't make it back for the deadline.

So you're essentially just bouncing onto wagons that others have created, while continuing to spew the same filth at anyone who so much as doubts you and ram some sort of pro-town message down their throats. That's both opportunistic and cowardly. Essentially you're setting yourself up so that you can't be held to blame for mislynches that your on because the lynchee isn't NS and yet you aren't trying to get everyone to vote NS. That's bullshit.

[Human Destroyer]

I was suspicious of HD during day one, and between his "Super Awesome Day One Reread Funtime", his misdirection, his self-WIFOMing, and his self-meta arguments, my suspicion has only grown. Basically, he was scummy when he was doing nothing, and he is scummier now that he has opened his mouth.

If I misdirected, it was unintentional, and I don't really know what you're talking about wrt that.

I didn't use self-meta, SD just tried to pull out my meta without any backup. The only self-WIFOM I used was SD's proposed SK theory, which was REALLY bad. Also, how in all hell do you agree with SK hunting in the first place?

Other stuff gets responses after school

[Zaicon]

Human Destroyer, do you plan to answer my questions or not?

Wait, hold on a second, why are you SK hunting? SK hunting is scum motivated in every way.

1) Why do you consider it "SK hunting" when the conversation started based on goodmorning's post?
2) Why is SK hunting a scum tell? I realize that scum have motivations to find an SK if it exists, but so does town...

It could be two, but I'm looking at who's on it and the order in which they got on it and I see one. I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be two, but I think there's only one on it.

Which came first: there is one scum on the wagon therefore POE says it is {Belisarius, SafetyDance}, or {Belisarius, SafetyDance} is probably scum and therefore there is only one scum on the wagon? (That was badly worded, but I hope you get what I'm asking.)

[Belisarius]

The only self-WIFOM I used was SD's proposed SK theory, which was REALLY bad. Also, how in all hell do you agree with SK hunting in the first place?

Wow, nervous much?

SK's more the scum's problem than ours, but it's still an anti-town faction that has to be eliminated before endgame.

Agreed D2 is not the day to do it, but it's not anti-town to be concerned about the possibility. GM brought it up and she's flipped town. SD's response is perfectly innocuous.

[Human Destroyer]

This, this, and this really stuck out as genuine scumhunting posts.

...

I really hope you didn't expect more, because that's all I really have (and all I really need)

@Belisarius: Where do I express nervousness? If anything I'm expressing frustration.

[Nobody Special]

ac1983fan: Same as before.

[Human Destroyer]

Human Destroyer, do you plan to answer my questions or not?

Wait, hold on a second, why are you SK hunting? SK hunting is scum motivated in every way.

1) Why do you consider it "SK hunting" when the conversation started based on goodmorning's post?
2) Why is SK hunting a scum tell? I realize that scum have motivations to find an SK if it exists, but so does town...

It could be two, but I'm looking at who's on it and the order in which they got on it and I see one. I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be two, but I think there's only one on it.

Which came first: there is one scum on the wagon therefore POE says it is {Belisarius, SafetyDance}, or {Belisarius, SafetyDance} is probably scum and therefore there is only one scum on the wagon? (That was badly worded, but I hope you get what I'm asking.)

Which questions?

It's SK hunting because he's pretty much using GM's "he's not playing to either meta so he's 3rd party" as his real reason to lynch me.

With regard to the last point, a sort of weird combination of the two. It was more of "there are probably one to two scum on the wagon", then "looking at who's on it and their positions, it's probably only 1", then "PoE says one of {Belisarius, SafetyDance} is scum".

[ac1983fan]

ac1983fan: Same as before.

Well, *I* think I get better. YMMV.

So you think you get better by Day 2, yet your suspicions haven't seemingly changed at all, and you've contributed potentially even less today than you did yesterday? Okee dokee.