Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[Zaicon]

Which questions?

The explanation requests in Post 674.

[Cheery Dog]

People I'd like to lynch today:
NS - Obvious. Has he even done anything today? Notice he lurked like fuck but still joined the lynch d1? Alarm bells much people? If we ML twice in a row and he makes it to D3 I will rage.

And yet, no vote on NS...

Does SD's bottom part of this post you've count mean anything towards that?

[SafetyDance]

It's SK hunting because he's pretty much using GM's "he's not playing to either meta so he's 3rd party" as his real reason to lynch me.

No, if you think that then you're not reading the game. I dedicated a whole post to reasons why you should be lynched. So you're basically strawmanning again.

ac1983, your town read understood it. Implosion understood it. Cheery understood it. Apozzle, conf town understood it.

But you can't. Hmm.

What proof is there not an SK, as GM suggested? Right from the start there was a 50% chance of their being one. Unless you have information that we don't, that hasn't changed. I'm not going into WIFOM NK speculation. It's just as easy as any other obvious scenario happening as to why there was only one kill.

[Gammagooey]

Votecount #17

Edosurist (3) Zaicon, implosion, ac1983fan
Belisarius (2) Edosurist, Cheery Dog
SafetyDance (2) pieceofpecanpie, Human Destroyer
Human Destroyer(2) SafetyDance, Apozzle
Cheery Dog (1) Belisarius
ac1983fan (1) Nobody Special
implosion (0)
pieceofpecanpie (0)
Apozzle (0)
Nobody Special (0)
Zaicon (0)
Not Voting: Nobody!

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline: March 26th 9:00pm EST

[SafetyDance]

This is a pre-edit. This is the last time I answer pie today. Having to waste too much time on this is annoying and will end up more fruitless than banging a head on the wall and it's not worth the rise in blood pressure anymore to answer the crap.

FFS, you said yourself you agree with my NS argument before but

now you're saying you don't understand anything

?

Good job misrepping me some more. Your counter-argument is bunk. I understand plenty. I understand that you're not looking town and I understand that you can't read.

You are not God, my opinion is not bunk just because you say so. Just as your opinion of me not looking town is only

your

opinion, one that you don't appear to be swaying others other. That last part is more blantant fabrication.

Listen dunderhead, if you're going to spend the whole game using little initiative except to craft aggressive counter-attacks on players at least learn how to read what's being said. Did I say NS was town? Nope.

You may recall I said this? (you can read all of it, but at least do the underlined bits)

And for my final thought let's talk briefly about NS. NS is thus-far useless. Lurking, scummy, vague you name it. There is no way I want to see NS coast into Lylo at this rate.

However, NS can also be the go-to name for anyone who wants to derail any current discussion.

Start a bit of open speculation about someone's post and anyone can barge in yelling "NS is scummy! Kill him!" and the thread will collapse into a session of scumminess of lurking vs his meta and so forth.

I'd much rather if the suspicion was cast on people making those sorts of easy calls, rather than NS himself for the time being.

No, you got to stop this line . It is blantantly obvious I can read otherwise I would be quoting your posts.

As to your quote,I brought that up before! Which all you did was deflect and attack my character...again! No one agreed with you either btw, again.

It is illogical to say, oh hey this person is acting scummy (because that's what this lurking is) but let's not lynch him, lets get those pushing his lynch. That doesn't make sense!!!! You're defending the elephant in the room and letting him get away with it! THAT.DOES.NOT.MAKE.SENSE. If he was an easy lynch then there wouldn't be this discussion on Day fucking two.

There is no reason to keep someone in the game who is being unhelpful, barely says a word, is clearly not himself scumhunting and is massively lurking. There is no logic for keeping him in the game until the last mislynch . That does not make sense. I would rather have someone like GM still in the game than NS, she talks and has opinions of her own. I would rather have YOU in the game than NS because posting and giving out reads, even bad ones, are IMPORTANT parts of the game.

Heeeey, settle pettle. You are perfectly capable of defending yourself. It's not so much a defence though, as an opportunity to flex your counter-attack muscles. Is that really productive? You know what I don't see you doing: taking initiative to put forward cases, or push lynches. Is that because you're a coward?

Oh yeah, would you like one of these?

Spoiler:

That's what you're doing with NS, and beyond that you're just blasting away like a senile old man at anyone who invades your space. And yet, no vote on NS...

People I'd like to lynch today:
NS - Obvious. Has he even done anything today? Notice he lurked like fuck but still joined the lynch d1? Alarm bells much people? If we ML twice in a row and he makes it to D3 I will rage.

And yet, no vote on NS...

LOOK AT THE WHOLE DAMN POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is even more insulting than your actual insults. Don't twist what I say.

To get it in one clear post. People I'd like to lynch today:

NS - Obvious. Has he even done anything today? Notice he lurked like fuck but still joined the lynch d1? Alarm bells much people? If we ML twice in a row and he makes it to D3 I will rage.
HD - fake-hunting, wasting time, not reading thread properly or ignoring things entirely
Pie - massively tunnelling, focus on himself, largely unhelpful, afraid to be on a wagon

Edo - Backup. Looking scummy, dead town's top read d1, hasn't done a lot. Lynch has traction if I can't get people to agree to the other three
CD - Cooled off his lynch, so he's a fallback.

That's in order. HD get's the vote for reasons summarised and listed above in more detail but

I'm not going to persist with beating a dead horse about NS, if people agree and want him lynched then of course I'll vote him.

By now, people should know my stance on NS. It should be bleeding obvious I'd like him lynch. I'm not going to waste time LEAVING a vote on him if it doesn't get any support. That would be POINTLESS.

Today, I have considered Cheery Dog as scum, looked at Edorist, am voting HD because I think he's playing scummy and I've even mentioned you as potential scum/lynch prospect because of the way you playing can't not be town motived. I'm clearly not just tunnelling NS, which you would notice if you looked at that quote you so conveniently snipped. So stop throwing back my own arguments against you as a response. You realise the whole "No, you are" thing is something most people grow out of when they stop sucking their thumb? You should try it too.

I'm noticing an emerging pattern from Safety where what he says isn't quite lining up with what he's doing.

You did the same in your vitriolic spewfest against GM between 389-443, I'm amazed you didn't get on the wagon. In fact putting your diatribes aside, you get scum points just for you're bullshit tunnelling on GM whilst her wagon was building and not voting her and despite your "intent" to hammer and with ample opportunity, passing it up.

Oh again, I'm not surprised that your cheap shots completely misrepresent what actually happened:

Alright, I want to get a few last thoughts down as a summary and then hammer this thing. I hope no one minds too much that it's not last second, I don't consider it likely that more fresh voices will enter in the last hour or so [...]

Damnit!

People have appeared out of the woodwork.

I'm off to grab a beer now, so I have to pass hammer duties on to someone else in case I don't make it back for the deadline.

So you're essentially just bouncing onto wagons that others have created, while continuing to spew the same filth at anyone who so much as doubts you and ram some sort of pro-town message down their throats. That's both opportunistic and cowardly. Essentially you're setting yourself up so that you can't be held to blame for mislynches that your on because the lynchee isn't NS and yet you aren't trying to get everyone to vote NS. That's bullshit.

Let me get this straight: I saw between posts 389-443 and you quote

509 and 510

as proof of me misinterpreting you? Wow. And still, all you've done is show proof that you passed up on your promise to hammer, regardless of reason (although granted, beer is a better excuse than a sick grandma).

I haven't rammed it down people's throat, why don't you ask anyone else if that's how they feel before you jump to conclusions and I'm not setting up anything at all, I haven't been on any mislynches so how on earth can I defend myself against something that hasn't happened?

Others have said more about this as well and it's all valid too. Listen. Read. Process.

Aaargh

[SafetyDance]

Listen dunderhead

,


That's what you're doing with NS, and beyond that you're just blasting away

like a senile old man

at anyone who invades your space. And yet, no vote on NS...

So you're essentially just bouncing onto wagons that others have created, while continuing to

spew the same filth

at anyone who so much as doubts you and ram some sort of pro-town message down their throats. That's both opportunistic

and cowardly

.

@Mod If pie continues along these lines I wish for you to consider rule 4 please. Thanks

4) Don't be a jerk to the other players. I'll give you a warning if you get out of hand but continued breaking of this or any other rule will result in either a force-replace or modkill.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Geez, chill out. My language is for descriptive effect, it's not meant to offend and I'll certainly tone things down in the future.

Don't dish out what you can't take.

You can get fucked calling me a coward. It should be blatantly obvious that I am perfectly capable of defending myself again you're infantile, asinine accusations you call reads.

Because it's all you seem to be doing. But hey, the more you beat your chest doing it, the scummier you look. You did the same in your vitriolic spewfest against GM between 389-443, I'm amazed you didn't get on the wagon. In fact putting your diatribes aside, you get scum points just for you're bullshit tunnelling on GM whilst her wagon was building and not voting her and despite your "intent" to hammer and with ample opportunity, passing it up.

We're bouncing the same words between each other and it's not going anywhere. We're not going to agree, we'll keep penning the same arguments back and forth and find new ways to say the same thing with more liberal descriptions. If you think I'm taking it too far then man up and let me know, because I'm certainly not here to be a jerk or ruin anyone's fun. I think it takes two to tango, but I'm pretty tired of this dance as well, so how about we go play the shit out of the game?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Safety

By the way, just to be perfectly clear, objection noted. I'll pull my head in.

[implosion]

704 says pretty much everything I could say about popc right now very well, and the tone feels exactly the same as the way i feel (and also feels genuine).

Also, brief point on the sk speculation: although nothing suggests the existence of an sk as more likely than the non-existence of an sk per se, the fact that there was one kill last night does not preclude the existence of an sk, especially in light of the fact that there were mason claims, and the sk may have decided "hey, i don't like clears, i'll shoot a mason" and wound up shooting the same one as the mafia team.

Note that the above is not an argument for there being an SK, nor does it say anything about speculating particular people as being an sk, it just says "it's possible."

[Belisarius]

@Belisarius: Where do I express nervousness? If anything I'm expressing frustration.

It was the "where the hell do you get off" part of your reaction.

SK speculation is no worse than town vs. town mutual tunnelling. It's not scummy, it's part of the game and it's going to happen.

[SafetyDance]

Great, so we're all on the same page now. 5 days till deadline so let's move on?

Votecount #17

Edosurist (3) Zaicon, implosion, ac1983fan
Belisarius (2) Edosurist, Cheery Dog
SafetyDance (2) pieceofpecanpie, Human Destroyer
Human Destroyer(2) SafetyDance, Apozzle
Cheery Dog (1) Belisarius
ac1983fan (1) Nobody Special
implosion (0)
pieceofpecanpie (0)
Apozzle (0)
Nobody Special (0)
Zaicon (0)
Not Voting: Nobody!

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline: March 26th 9:00pm EST

Can I suggest now, since we have 6 wagons, people on single ones move off onto one of the others so we know where these people stand?

Wouldn't mind seeing more from Zaicon, who's barely passed his day1 posting and ac1983fan. Oh, conf town being more active nearer to deadline too would help

[SafetyDance]

***Warning! Post About Nobody Special!***

NS Watch ~ Day 2 play:

Spoiler: Pointless post, no substance

I have a scum-finding record of about 1-7 (that is, out of the last 3-4 games, I've correctly found 1 scum).

Is this that new-fangled New Math I've been hearing so much about?

Spoiler: Support for HD

Although really, I was expecting to be the

first

to defend HD's action here, not the

only

one.

You aren't the only one. I, too, appreciate his effort. (Spoiler tags would be nice, though. More aesthetically pleasing.)

And, ac1983fan..... overreact much?

Spoiler: semantics

And, ac1983fan..... overreact much?

Overreact how? I merely explained why HD's method of catching up is unhelpful.

He did not post

literally every single post.

Spoiler: more support for HD's wall

WHO CARES

YOU COULD IGNORE THEM IF YOU CHOSE

Spoiler: now decides to read

I have literally no idea who to vote for. I guess I'll have to go back and read Day One.

Again.

Spoiler: Votes

Vote: ac1983fan

ac1983fan: Same as before.

Which is incidentally:

unvote

Vote: ac1983fan

A whole lotta banging on the keyboard and almost no substance. Amazing, really.

So ac1983fan, top scumspect yet interestingly...

Spoiler:

It isn't me, and I have a townread on ac1983fan.

If you don't have a townread on ac, you're not reading the game.

This, this, and this really stuck out as genuine scumhunting posts.

...

I really hope you didn't expect more, because that's all I really have (and all I really need)

We have this major discrepancy between two players.

HD, NS claims to have read the thread and now thinks your town read is scum. Why aren't you even talking about him?

Also, anyone remember this?

Spoiler: day 2 play 'promise'

I don't usually get much of substance done during Day One. I get better on Day Two, after a couple flips.

Here's how it usually happens: Someone miraculously outshines me in the scummy behavior department on Day One, and I get much more active and substantial from Day Two forward. Unless I become Super Townie, I am usually lynched or nightkilled before LyLo.

Generally, if I make it to LyLo alive, I'm either previously-confirmed town or scum.

Have you seen it come to fruition today? Oh and I completely missed that last sentence I think before, which is blatantly wrong

[Nobody Special]

If it's "blatantly wrong" then you have a weird definition of "generally."

[pieceofpecanpie]

Good counter-point NS, now back that up by doing something useful.

For a start, I'll move my vote.

VOTE: Belisarius

This is an easy choice, since I really didn't like his request to Apozzle to make a case on him. Felt really forced and baiting out a town read.

That doesn't gel with his overall passive play, there shouldn't be the expectation that because you've kept your nose relatively clean that it makes you overwhelmingly town.

I'd also love to see this lynch go through as it feels like a missing link on various other players (Edo, Cheery and Safety for a start).

My secondary vote choice is Nobody Special. Mostly because in order to push suspicion and/or lynches onto others I feel I'd be forced to justify why it's them and not NS. And the thought of having to do that again and again is sickening.

[Human Destroyer]

HD, NS claims to have read the thread and now thinks your town read is scum. Why aren't you even talking about him?

He's NS, I doubt he's reading the thread despite what he says

[Human Destroyer]

I'm hard-resetting, this time without walls

Yay?

I... what? What is the point of you doing your page-by-page analysis (without actual explanations), only to "hard-reset" and change your reads (on some people)?

Cause they weren't working obviously, for me, you, OR my dog Blue.

(Ew I'm never using that one again)

I'm assuming there's scum on this wagon.

I've already explained why; I think there was one (probably only one) scum on the Apozzle wagon

Where did this assumption come from?

Normal wagon trends. I subscribe to the newsletter of "on most wagons, there is at least one scum, but not all of them"

I find it interesting that both Belisarius and SafetyDance had their votes off this lynch, but not Apozzle.

This looks like they want to avoid being on two town wagons.

Will you explain this further?

Is there something you don't understand about it? I think it's pretty clear.

I don't like this, because I read POPP's reasons for voting Safety and it's actually because Safety's reasons for voting POPP are really damn weak. So this is a combination of a misrep and a chainsaw defense.

That's not his reasoning/conclusion in Post 110, which was where my claim came from. I also agreed that SD's reasons for voting PoPP were weak, but I also explained my stance on that as well.

Eh. This would have to be one where we're agreeing to disagree. I'm not going to call this scummy on it's own anymore though.

This post is also fency about a lot of people.

I'm sorry I didn't have a particularly strong read on anyone?

Well why give a big wall of reads if they're mostly null? There's no real point to it except to fill up the page with words and look like you're contributing, which is scummy.

[implosion]

Normal wagon trends. I subscribe to the newsletter of "on most wagons, there is at least one scum, but not all of them"

The problem is that this isn't really the case because of scum behaviors; it's the case because of math (specifically, combinatorics). It's also the case because someone at some point created this theory then looked for data to fit it. Scum do not, generally speaking, have it as a primary motivation when voting that they try to make it so that one scum is on each wagon. Mathematically, it gives you no benefit to assume that there's one scum on the wagon and go from there.

[Edosurist]

I hate to say this, but I'm going to be extremely busy until at LEAST next Wednesday. I may as well go on V/LA.

[Nobody Special]

HD: When you got your replacement Role PM, were you happy?

[Gammagooey]

Votecount #18

Edosurist (3) Zaicon, implosion, ac1983fan
Belisarius (3) Edosurist, Cheery Dog, pieceofpecanpie
Human Destroyer(2) SafetyDance, Apozzle
SafetyDance (1) Human Destroyer
Cheery Dog (1) Belisarius
ac1983fan (1) Nobody Special
implosion (0)
pieceofpecanpie (0)
Apozzle (0)
Nobody Special (0)
Zaicon (0)
Not Voting: Nobody!

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline: March 26th 9:00pm EST

[Cheery Dog]

Normal wagon trends. I subscribe to the newsletter of "on most wagons, there is at least one scum, but not all of them"

That's a long name for a ragular publication, you should get them to shrink it to something more catchy so I won't look silly getting a copy to see how big and actually useful that "most wagons" is; I'm currently thinking it's about as useful as the sentence I just wrote.

Well why give a big wall of reads if they're mostly null? There's no real point to it except to fill up the page with words and look like you're contributing, which is scummy.

Is that your opinion on all big walls of reads, or just ones that are full of nulls?

@Edosurist, are you still going to be able to post during then, because otherwise we've lost you until after deadline and I think this game needs more contributes from everybody.

[implosion]

@Edosurist, are you still going to be able to post during then, because otherwise we've lost you until after deadline and I think this game needs more contributes from everybody.

This. Plus i'd still really like to lynch you .

[Human Destroyer]

HD: When you got your replacement Role PM, were you happy?

Don't really have an answer to this. I don't look at my PM and go "Yay, I'm town" or "Yay, I'm mafia"; it just isn't what I do.

Normal wagon trends. I subscribe to the newsletter of "on most wagons, there is at least one scum, but not all of them"

That's a long name for a ragular publication, you should get them to shrink it to something more catchy so I won't look silly getting a copy to see how big and actually useful that "most wagons" is; I'm currently thinking it's about as useful as the sentence I just wrote.

Well why give a big wall of reads if they're mostly null? There's no real point to it except to fill up the page with words and look like you're contributing, which is scummy.

Is that your opinion on all big walls of reads, or just ones that are full of nulls?

That's why I don't name publications.

Just walls that are full of nulls.

[implosion]

That's why I don't name publications.

What he's saying is that it's a bad theory to subscribe to.

[Cheery Dog]

Just from games we've played together (the two completed ones you know I played in anyway), I'll grab all the L-1 and l-0 town wagons to show my point where there was multiple scum alive (ignoring LYLO)

Spoiler: open 471

against
day 1a
LYNCHED greygnarl - Empking, Voidedmafia,

Siveure DtTrikyp

, Cheery Dog,

Rob13

day 2a
L-1 Empking - Cheery Dog, kuribo the white, Human Destroyer (also the players on the scum wagon on L-1)

in favour
day 1a
L-1 greygnarl - Lincolm, Empking, Voidedmafia,

Rob13

L-1 greygnarl - Lincolm, Empking, Voidedmafia,

Siveure DtTrikyp

day 1b
LYNCHED ThAdmiral -

Rob13

, Cheery Dog, Empking, kuribo the white, Human Destroyer

Those greygnarl wagons were the ones that did go through as well. (I did ignore rob's unvote/revote of it as the wagons never changed during that time)

Spoiler: open 474

Against
day 1
Josh Lyman (L-1): KX, Human Destroyer, NicCage,

Venrob

, Docteur Gudsight,

goodmorning

{

Jacob

intent to hammer}
(scum goodmorning was lynched here, if you include that, it was 1 scum on the wagon)
d2
Docteur Gudsight (L-1): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick, KX, serrapaladin
serrapaladin (L-1): Human Destroyer, NicCage,

borkjerfkin, JacobSavage,

Docteur Gudsight
d3
Cheery Dog (L-1): ArcAngel9, Docteur Gudsight,

borkjerfkin

, Human Destroyer {

Jacob

intent to hammer}

In favour
d3
Docteur Gudsight (Lynch!): Human Destroyer,

borkjerfkin

, Jennifer, NicCage, Cheery Dog
d4
Human Destroyer (L-1): ArcAngel9, KX,

JacobSavage

Human Destroyer (Lynch!): KX,

JacobSavage

, NicCage, ArcAngel9

Those I guess Jacob's intents to hammer don't really count as neither went through