[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[LlamaFluff]

Playing around with this

Alternating Mountainous

2x Mafia Goon (can only kill even nights)
2x Wearwolf (can only kill odd nights)
1x Odd Night Cop
1x Even Night Seer
7x Vanilla Town

Only nervousness is mafia should get something small to counter cop getting a shot off before they can even kill. Daytalk is too strong, limiting day talk to day one may work but is very unusual sounding.

[borkjerfkin]

give mafia a 1 shot roleblock or something?

[N]

What if you randomised whether they're odd or even?

[LlamaFluff]

give mafia a 1 shot roleblock or something?

It does shift things to skill based and that may just be the simplest option.

What if you randomised whether they're odd or even?

Point is to have the delay between cop/mafia. If cop claims day after they get a result, the immediately get NKed. If they hold onto it,then they get a couple more while dodging their scum even having a kill ability.

[Mr. Flay]

What if you randomised whether they're odd or even?

That just alternates which group is disadvantaged; doesn't solve the core problem.

Rather than 1-shot RB it might be more balanced to go with a N1-only RB. Then they can't use it against the Werewolves, forex.

[Cheery Dog]

Rather than 1-shot RB it might be more balanced to go with a N1-only RB. Then they can't use it against the Werewolves, forex.

Non N1, because N1 is when werewolves kill.

Unless it's just one that stops investigative roles from working and the kills are strongmaned.

[Leafsnail]

So I guess you could call it a...



...cop block.

[JacobSavage]

Urgggggggg....


But seriously I think making it 1 shot rather than N1 would certainly add a new dimension to the game ...

[borkjerfkin]

There's no reason for them not to use it N1 -- all the potential anti-mafia stuff happens N1 (wolves could cross kill mafia, cop investigates Mafia) and since Mafia is underpowered compared to Wolves you'd definitely want to allow them to use it N1.

Using it N2 doesn't really help Mafia. They could save it till N3 though.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Simpling PoPP you can probably do something like

1-3x Vengeful Townie
7-9x Vanilla Townie

3x Goon

Hmmm?

Not sure what you want to say by that.

The main idea behind my design is town all get given a potential ability if their lynched, I've just tried to implement that with a setup that isn't broken. The second part's the tricky bit.

[JacobSavage]

There's no reason for them not to use it N1 -- all the potential anti-mafia stuff happens N1 (wolves could cross kill mafia, cop investigates Mafia) and since Mafia is underpowered compared to Wolves you'd definitely want to allow them to use it N1.

Using it N2 doesn't really help Mafia. They could save it till N3 though.

Thats kind of what I was thinking about, by saving it to the endgame it could be very damaging however by doing so they run the risk of getting investigated.

Give just the mafia day talk as well prephaps?

[Leafsnail]

Make it so the cop can't act N1? That way the werewolves get earlier kills but also earlier inspects.

e: Or seer headstart if you think that would be too scumsided maybe.

[chkflip]

So I guess you could call it a...



...cop block.

YYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

[callforjudgement]

What about giving the Mafia some sort of minor crosskill protection, to make up for town's enhanced ability to pick on them? (Something like a Mafia Doctor who can self-target, but can't both protect and kill.)

[JacobSavage]

What about giving town a compulsive CPR Doc....
(That doesn't work on mafia)

[Mr. Flay]

Any sort of NK protection for Mafia would be MORE unbalancing than a 1/6 chance of a N1 Cop. Especially in endgame.

[The Baltimore Sun]

Well the problem is at the moment the werewolf is a much better role to draw. Not only can they not be investigated until Night 2 - but being able to kill first in the odd/even kill cycle is an advantage. Not sure there's a way to make them equal though. (I mean switching the seer to odd and the cop to even would make it fairer but that doesn't seem to be what the set-up is going for)

[JacobSavage]

Maybe a Seer head start?

[Mr. Flay]

Maybe a Seer head start?

Might be the best of a bad lot - everything else with scum teams that small seems worse than the disease.

[guille2015]

Point is to have the delay between cop/mafia. If cop claims day after they get a result, the immediately get NKed. If they hold onto it,then they get a couple more while dodging their scum even having a kill ability.

Strategy scenario, Cop get's a positive result day 1, then holds off on day 2. Reveal Day 3. Likely safe from the Werewolves kill as he is free to check another player.

[LlamaFluff]

What about giving the Mafia some sort of minor crosskill protection, to make up for town's enhanced ability to pick on them? (Something like a Mafia Doctor who can self-target, but can't both protect and kill.)

Thats another point of the setup. If scum A loses a member, its bad for scum B to try and finish off the faction immediately as it leaves them in a very bad position. The two scum factions have to play nice with eachother to an extent to prevent the game from turning into a very tough win.

Point is to have the delay between cop/mafia. If cop claims day after they get a result, the immediately get NKed. If they hold onto it,then they get a couple more while dodging their scum even having a kill ability.

Strategy scenario, Cop get's a positive result day 1, then holds off on day 2. Reveal Day 3. Likely safe from the Werewolves kill as he is free to check another player.

Thats the point sorta. You get a guilty and do you risk holding it for another night or not.

Maybe seer head start is best way to start making this move towards balanced. Even if they hit wolf N0 a D1 claim gets them NKed right off the bat.

[JacobSavage]

I've just thought, what would your thoughts be on having some sort of cross communication between the two factions.

Basically lets say a Seer gets outed D2, the Werewolves can then try and persuade the mafia to take them out for a promise of a kill later.
Or would this over power it completely?

[LlamaFluff]

I keep coming back to "Night One Cop Blocker" as the better choice as it takes an element of randomness (N0 investigation) and at least transfers it to more applies (wolves have one night to seer hunt, seer has a day to form opinions). Otherwise you could end up with a D1 post one guilty followed by a quick D1 lynch N1 kill and two players are gone without the game hardly haven happened.

The N1 blocker at least makes it so scum/seer relies on read instead of luck.

[Faraday]

Even with a night 1 cop block for the mafia I think the werewolves are still slightly stronger/more preferential to draw.

[LlamaFluff]

They are but I think the difference is dropped a bit though as you can run something around....

1/13 cop claims
1/10 cop blocked (at random)
1/10 cop NKed (at random)

So thats 25% or so cop gets blocked/killed really. Which while still probably slightly at a disadvantage isnt end of the world and may be runnable.