Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

Equinox · Post Post #325 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:16 am

Vote Count 1.12Mutleyddmc (2) - Voodoo Lady, Xiao Long
KingPin96 (1) - Mutleyddmc
MP5 (1) - KingPin96
theslimer3 (1) - MP5
Xegarus (1) - Didi
Xiao Long (1) - Spadille

Not Voting (2) - Xegarus, theslimer3

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, April 2, 2013, at 12:37 AM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Xegarus is V/LA until March 26.

↑ Mutleyddmc wrote:apparently we will be getting a replacement for kingpin? How comes Equinox?

KingPin96 asked to be replaced.

Xiao Long · Post Post #326 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:16 am

↑ Mutleyddmc wrote:Well you shouldn't be so lazy as to not go back and make me answer the same stuff you've asked me before.

It's not laziness, I have a reason for asking you to explain it again in your own words.

Mutleyddmc · Post Post #327 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:20 am

Well just go back to post 202. So I don't have to copy and paste it and then add in that again hes been lurking.

Now add he might be being replaced so it might change as I always will let a replacement have a chance.

Xiao Long · Post Post #328 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:21 am

Yeah, I was gonna ask if you were changing your vote now that he's being replaced.

Mutleyddmc · Post Post #329 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:21 am

Well he asked to be replaced, I wonder if it's cos he didnt have the time? would be nice to know.

Xiao Long · Post Post #330 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:22 am

Well he asked to be replaced, I wonder if it's cos he didnt have the time? would be nice to know.

I'm actually curious about that as well.

That being said, Spadille has been really inactive, is he v/la?

Mutleyddmc · Post Post #331 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:23 am

UNVOTE:

as he obviously doesn't want to play this game hence the not posting. So i can't really vote his replacement for that.

Equinox · Post Post #332 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:11 am

frog replaces KingPin96. Thank you!

frog · Post Post #333 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:41 am

Hi there, I'm frog, just replaced in. It is late so I'll catch up on the thread tomorrow. If you want, throw some questions at me so I can perhaps direct my reading better. Thanks.

Equinox · Post Post #334 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:43 pm

NicCage replaces Spadille. Thank you!

Voodoo Lady · Post Post #335 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:29 pm

This is what page 13 looks like to me. There wasn't anything important I missed there, right?

↑ Equinox wrote:
NicCage replaces Spadille. Thank you!

I'm disappointed in you, Equinox. You missed an opportunity to say, "Despite all my rage, Spadille's been replaced with Nicolas Cage." :0)

Also, on a more serious note: frog, how do you feel about your predecessor's play? Kingpin

was

a tad suspicious.

frog · Post Post #336 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:24 pm

Alright, I shall start with some general comments on all the players in the game.

Didi: Didi starts the game with a lot of random votes apparently designed to provoke reactions. Although it initially looked odd to me that she'd voted 4 different people in her first 10 posts, I think she was generally trying to scumhunt. Her conversation with Xegarus is interesting because she does manage to provoke a reaction.
Posts 75 and 64 demonstrate that she's pretty calm and she backs up her comments with genuine reasoning. Analysis seems to decline past that point, agrees with Xeg and goes from 'If Mutley isn't mafia I don't know what to think' to 'this feels like town responses' in the space of a few posts with little to no reason given for her doing so. That aside, I'm leaning town on her. More of the early play, less of the recent play, please.
Verdict: Leaning town

MP5: Gets into the game and starts questioning, keeps to his promise of explaining his vote, does a nice job of IC'ing when theslimer was away. I don't like how he quotes a previous game in order to justify a vote in this game. He almost advocates a lynch in #123, before performing an about-face that seems a bit too easy on the justification for me. Contradicts himself in #216 by saying excitement isn't always a scumtell, has some good analysis of Didi but IMO takes it too far to make her look scummy (he calls Didi noncommittal despite the fact that he calls it 'real scumhunting'? I don't follow). Post 265 annoys me but he redeems himself in 291 (which I read all of, by the way) which shows his commitment to the game and some very good scumhunting. Aside from a few instances I don't agree with (and even then they're not scumslips, more actions I don't like in principle), MP5 is a solid townread.

Unvote MP5

Muttley: First of all, wow, 87 posts to go through. Starts by wagoning VooDoo. I'm not sure what to make of this. It looks like RVS but putting a player at L-2 so early looks pretty bad to me, and he follows Xeg blindly. Tells Didi to take the vote off and then criticises her for it; looks pretty bad to me. Doesn't do much, gives 4 people as scum with no explanation, refuses to answer Voodoo's questions, then tries to use this to claim he's town in #130. Says claiming is bad, doesn't contribute anything to town (no reads, no scumhunting, nothing). Votes Xiao because he's rude. In 225 he wants to join MP5's lynch but then says he thinks MP5 is scum? This reads very badly to me. Gets into a statistics debate, possibly to stall for time or to deflect suspicion of his posts. Unvotes later, calls out KingPin and Didi for lurking (yet doesn't vote either), engages in ad hominems (racist, called you a 'her' to annoy you, etc). No substance whatsoever in any of his 87 posts.
Verdict: Scum.

FSnake/Spadille/NicCage: Nice and constructive at the start, answers questions for the newer members, asks for direction from SEs/IC and bandwagons for the hell of it (though gives some justification). He's the first guy I've seen to post a list of reads, which is constructive even if they're all null reads and he doesn't vote. Looks like a young townie to me. Spadille only has three posts, and his second just sees him comment on Xiao ('an interesting reaction', 'Pontius Pilate', etc) without actually providing reasoning. It looks a bit forced, as if he felt like he had to continue in FSnake's line of thinking. Tunnels, tunnels, and tunnels. Fsnake reads as town but Spadille looks like scum to me, so hopefully NicCage will clear it all up. Currently on a null read.

Will post the rest shortly.

frog · Post Post #337 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:51 pm

theslimer: Begins by stating his IC duties and proceeds to ignore them the entire game. He's a bit too relaxed early on and doesn't engage with the game at all until 228. Posts some sensible suggestions before then but does little scumhunting. 228 is an awful post for so many reasons; firstly, theslimer turns every eventuality (claiming PR or VT) into a scumread, asks a lot of rhetorical questions but doesn't answer them with a point; secondly, he forgets his train halfway through, says Mutley is town and scum, then votes him for no given reason three posts later. Ellipses and speculative questions are not scumhunting at all, but it's a good way to feign being town. The post really begs the question 'well, yes, but what does this mean?' but theslimer does not answer this. No substance to his posts, no scumhunting, just jokes and useless speculation, all the while when he's meant to be an IC. Verdict: Scum.

Vote: theslimer

Voodoo Lady: She starts the game late but makes up for it by asking some very good questions early on. She's not fazed by being at L-2 and has a nice mix of lighthearted and serious posts. Pressure votes Mutley and gets massive town points for reminding everyone it is L-1. She's clearly cautious and she wants to use D1 to its full. Has a good memory for what happened earlier in the game and is attentive to what everyone is saying. Keeps things calm, tries to defuse the Mutley/Xiao situation. Overall, strong townread, possible the strongest one yet.
In answer to your question: I can see why you'd think that. He does try to get some questions off, albeit unsuccessfully, and his comments aren't particularly useful. I think he may have just been a bit keen.

Xegarus: Starts off with a wagon which makes him a little suspicious in my eyes, even if it were a joke Mutley does follow him onto it. Some nice play with Mutley, I especially like the fake hammer; Xeg practically carries the game at this point and really pressures Mutley. He answers all the questions directed at him and asks some very good ones of his own. Although I don't agree with him when he says Mutley is town, I respect him for taking a step back and looking at the situation again. Solid townread.

Xiao Long: Urgh the formatting is horrible horrible, thanks for changing it! I'm not sure what to think of him. He starts off very jovial and measured, does some scumhunting in his seventh post but then inexplicably votes MP5. He gets really really angry and rude from about #97 onwards which really contrasts with his earlier behaviour. The posts from about 100-112 are pretty good and he contributes to the town knowledge. His analysis takes a step back during the fake hammer scenario but this may be due to Xeg carrying the game. Apologises for his conduct earlier, then persists with the rudeness. I don't know; I've got a null read on him.

Mutleyddmc · Post Post #338 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:14 pm

Ahh man frog is not like king pin. That was good analysis frog good one. You are wrong on me but nice write up still. Good intro to the game.

frog · Post Post #339 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:20 pm

Mutley, who is currently your top scumread?

Mutleyddmc · Post Post #340 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:42 pm

Didi now. As it was who you replaced. But as I said he obviously didnt want to play and part of the reason I found him scummy was lurking and never getting involved.

Didi · Post Post #341 (ISO) » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:56 pm

I'm not a girl yo

What's OMGUS? OMG U Scum? Like a sort of kneejerk reaction to questioning or votes or something?

I should probably do an ISO of everyone , but I'm kind of busy irl
However, I agree with what MP5 and frog have said about Slimer, specifically about him just giving lots of scumreads on various people and vague suspicions without much backup - especially since just assuming someone is scum and then disecting them from there is something he personally advocated against.

VOTE: theslimer

frog · Post Post #342 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:51 am

My apologies.
OMGUS is 'Oh my God you suck', and refers to a situation where you vote for someone because they've just voted for you.

MP5 · Post Post #343 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:34 am

Omgus stands for "Oh My God You Suck". Basically, it's a knee-jerk vote back on to someone who has just voted you:

Player A: I think player B is scum because of xyz, vote player B
Player B: No you're wrong you must be scum, vote player A

That's the most simple form of it.

Congratulations frog, you win at town. Will go through your post more thoroughly later, but this is how it's done, people. One thing I did notice though frog is you seemed to read people just by their iso, I noticed a couple of mistakes in how you read me, some things were better understood in context.

Bah, frog long beat me to it. Had the game open in my phone browser, was writing this inbetween being busy n stuff.

Xiao Long · Post Post #344 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:13 am

↑ frog wrote:

Xegarus: Starts off with a wagon which makes him a little suspicious in my eyes, even if it were a joke Mutley does follow him onto it. Some nice play with Mutley, I especially like the fake hammer; Xeg practically carries the game at this point and really pressures Mutley. He answers all the questions directed at him and asks some very good ones of his own. Although I don't agree with him when he says Mutley is town, I respect him for taking a step back and looking at the situation again. Solid townread.

I still think he stepped off Mutley too quickly for comfort, but I still have yet to meta him to see if this is how he usually plays.

Xiao Long: Urgh the formatting is horrible horrible, thanks for changing it!

Why does no one here appreciate art. ;.;

I'm not sure what to think of him. He starts off very jovial and measured, does some scumhunting in his seventh post but then inexplicably votes MP5. He gets really really angry and rude from about #97 onwards which really contrasts with his earlier behaviour. The posts from about 100-112 are pretty good and he contributes to the town knowledge. His analysis takes a step back during the fake hammer scenario but this may be due to Xeg carrying the game. Apologises for his conduct earlier, then persists with the rudeness. I don't know; I've got a null read on him.

Why does everyone think I didn't have a reason for voting for MP5? Aghghahgloadsgowref. <.<
I just want to say that I wasn't angry at all (until the Mutley fiasco, at least), I just don't really filter my words and it can come off as quite rude. And I apologise to everyone except Mutley, who I am intentionally rude to.

I agree with your analysis of Voodoo, Mutley and Didi.
I'm not sure why you think MP5 is a solid townread. I have him as null-leaning town, but I can't justify saying he's complete town yet.

Mutleyddmc · Post Post #345 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:36 am

You are intentionally rude to me xiao? I thought we were bert and ernie.

I'd like to point out frog that you said I called out Didi and kingpin for lurking. Yet didn't vote one. Even though I said I won't vote until both posts. However I then voted because I saw kingpin lurking again so this deserved my vote (turns out he wasn't playing any more and its now you)

NicCage · Post Post #346 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:43 am

Glad to meet you all
I am slowly catching up
Nice fake hammer Xeg

theslimer3 · Post Post #347 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:15 am

mp5 wrote:Not so cool. Now, you're looking for the scum-motivation in claiming VT, or at least trying to discredit the town-motivation in it. Vaguely throwing around suspicion without being decisive about it. Is Muttley scum because of it - yes or no?

At the time, I'd've said he were leaning scum.

Again, not cool. Vague suspicion on Xeg. You think what he did would be rare for scum to do? Fine. Is he scum because of it? Yes or no. Stop throwing vague suspicion around.

....Hmm, I thought he already did. Mind sharing why you think they are scummy? And, do you want to be on the same page with someone who should supposedly be of unknown alignment to you? I'm not surprised that Xeg would ignore this question.

Yet another maybe here. I'm not a definite person. Especially because of the fact that I'm not properly interacting with enough people. And I admit that much.
And what? You're a bit hard to understand on that last part. Of course I'd want to be on the same page with someone of an unknown alignment. Can't find info by ignoring scum. Or can you?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

Did you... Did you mean for that to be meaningful...?

Stop being mr. Super serious. This game is for fun, not indefinite constant brain toil. I personally dislike those who don't like joking here and there. This isn't meant to be a super tense stressful game, so seriously, the game aside, don't treat it like it is.

Here! This! slimer says that Muttley is "probably town"!!

..?

Decides Spadille is scummy for "bad reasoning". What about the reasoning is bad? It's vague suspicion again.

Because HE'S being vauge. Hell, are you so onesided that you can't see everyone else?

@slimer - what changed to make you think Muttley was scum? I haven't seen it, and have clearly stated my position on him. If you think you are right, then you will need to convince myself and also Xeg (as he is in the same boat).

Personally, I think you've scum slipped. Your wall was doing nothing but throw vague suspicion at multiple people (who you don't even pressure with any sort of meaningful question or analysis), you haven't given a single townread except for the one guy you are now voting, and you aren't committing to any other read or course of action. It's seriously scum-motivated to not want to clear anybody (as this narrows the field for mislynches), and also to create or foster suspicion among multiple players (to widen the field for mislynches).

Guys, I'm calling the scum team for now as slimer/Didi.

Scumslips are throwing around thoughts of what I think people said. Do-ly noted.

↑ frog wrote:theslimer: Begins by stating his IC duties and proceeds to ignore them the entire game. He's a bit too relaxed early on and doesn't engage with the game at all until 228. Posts some sensible suggestions before then but does little scumhunting. 228 is an awful post for so many reasons; firstly, theslimer turns every eventuality (claiming PR or VT) into a scumread, asks a lot of rhetorical questions but doesn't answer them with a point; secondly, he forgets his train halfway through, says Mutley is town and scum, then votes him for no given reason three posts later. Ellipses and speculative questions are not scumhunting at all, but it's a good way to feign being town. The post really begs the question 'well, yes, but what does this mean?' but theslimer does not answer this. No substance to his posts, no scumhunting, just jokes and useless speculation, all the while when he's meant to be an IC. Verdict: Scum.

Vote: theslimer

Did you even read

theslimer3 wrote:I'll rebreakdown your breakdown when I get on my pc later today, but id like to say that my vote on Mutt actually wasn't me calling him scum in the slightest. I was reaction testing him slightly. The main variable I was looking for was an OMGUS attack at me.
Mutts a bit of a center here so him reacting to my vote would pull in everyone else.

The basics of that is that He's the pull of the town. Everyone pretty much is targeting him and he's practically being nubbish with responces. A few people view it as town, and some don't.
He's playing around just a bit too much and he's finding the game boring. My vote on him was strictly reaction testing to test the reaction of him, and those around it. Seeing how you and Mp5 seem to find that as the perfect opportunity to hop on me for TESTING (which I would like to say is not a crime in this game) a reaction.

No, I don't share everything I'm thinking. I NEVER DO. Iso me, you'll see. Everything I say and do is either for fun or to see something/ analyze what I've seen.

Even though I have a town read on mp5, the way you're simply holding being an IC against me and the way I've said one little thing marks the margin of what scum is.
I may not be the best IC in the world, but I sure as hell am not the worst player. So stop treating this game like a newbie game and come at me with actual evidence besides me withholding logic.

↑ Didi wrote:I'm not a girl yo

What's OMGUS? OMG U Scum? Like a sort of kneejerk reaction to questioning or votes or something?

I should probably do an ISO of everyone , but I'm kind of busy irl
However, I agree with what MP5 and frog have said about Slimer, specifically about him just giving lots of scumreads on various people and vague suspicions without much backup - especially since just assuming someone is scum and then disecting them from there is something he personally advocated against.

VOTE: theslimer

Did I not make that post I made bold enough?

Here's a little something to help you all for the future.

Spoiler: For future refrences

NicCage · Post Post #348 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:24 am

Okay, first thing's first, this trolling needs to stop. It isn't necessarily scummy in this situation, but it is most definitely anti-town.

Mutley I find null. I thought he was town after his conversation with Xeg, but then continues to be disruptive and antagonizing towards Xiao. Definitely not a pro-town behavior, but I'll chalk it up as playstyle until I see something else.

Xiao is being equally antagonistic, in fact I'm pretty sure that he started part 2 of their argument by calling mutley a cunt. So why continue being disruptive?

↑ Didi wrote:Pretty sure that if Mutley is mafia, Xiao is as well.
1) wanting him to be replaced instead of lynched (maybe a new scummate would be less likely to get lynched because less abrasive playstyle)
2) calling out the fake hammer before Mutley could react to it
3) talking to him now, actively trying to make him act less scummy

Sounds like he's trying to do everything in his power to make sure Mutley doesn't get lynched

if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think

It might be because of this post. It looks to me like Xiao might have been reacting to being called out on buddying by distancing himself further from Mutley.

However, if Mutley isn't scum, then I'd say that originally Xiao was trying to avoid responsibility for such an early mislynch, but after that ordeal was over continued fighting so that he could claim that he was voting Mutley for being annoyed with him, which Xiao states a couple times.
Spadille's case was awful, but I'm going to stick with his vote for right now.

I'm also leery of the slimer, mainly because I can't see the motivation for either side. I see some fluff posts and some IC posts, but the scumhunting is tough to pull out of them. I see some things that could be scumhunting, but I don't see any strong opinion's behind them. Yeah I read the wall post, but there isn't a ton of push and shove in it. So theslimer, who exactly are your scumreads?

P-edit, tired of making posts need to do homework. I see you posted slimer, so I apologize if you already answered my question.

frog · Post Post #349 (ISO) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:47 am

The basics of that is that He's the pull of the town. Everyone pretty much is targeting him and he's practically being nubbish with responces. A few people view it as town, and some don't.
He's playing around just a bit too much and he's finding the game boring. My vote on him was strictly reaction testing to test the reaction of him, and those around it. Seeing how you and Mp5 seem to find that as the perfect opportunity to hop on me for TESTING (which I would like to say is not a crime in this game) a reaction.

No, I don't share everything I'm thinking. I NEVER DO. Iso me, you'll see. Everything I say and do is either for fun or to see something/ analyze what I've seen.

Even though I have a town read on mp5, the way you're simply holding being an IC against me and the way I've said one little thing marks the margin of what scum is.
I may not be the best IC in the world, but I sure as hell am not the worst player. So stop treating this game like a newbie game and come at me with actual evidence besides me withholding logic.

So, to summarise what is relevant from that post:
-At the time of writing the wall you were leaning scum on Mutley
-You quote one of your previous posts, which says that your vote (post #260) wasn't calling Mutley scum in the slightest
-It was a reaction test and you were looking for an OMGUS.

In post #263 you say that you will not give a reason for your vote. In #270 you say that the results of said vote will 'be complex'. You say in the above post that your vote was a reaction test looking for an OMGUS. This doesn't sound particularly complex to me. That said, I'd believe you if it weren't for the fact that you follow up your reaction test vote with posts #279, #282, #287, all of which contain jokes or irrelevant material ('Mutley I will neuter you') which really kill the momentum and renders what little scumhunting you did with that vote null and void. You clearly didn't set out to get a reaction with your vote at all, at least not seriously, judging by the way you follow it up. You say that Mutley was finding the game boring, but with him being easily the most active player in this game, this can hardly be taken as fact. Needless to say I don't believe your explanation.

In the space between your spoiler wall and your vote post you went from leaning scum on Mutley (as you say at the top of 347) to saying your vote 'wasn't me calling him scum in the slightest' (post 293). In other words, you go from suspecting him to not suspecting him. This is suspect in itself, especially since you tell Mutley he's 2 votes away from being lynched in post 270, but where this really rubs me up the wrong way is that this means when you found him scummy you didn't vote him and when you didn't find him scummy you did. That doesn't sit well with me.

I have an issue with your unvote post as well. The justification you give for your unvote is that 'Mutts a bit of a center here so him reacting to my vote would pull in everyone else'. Yet I've already shown that you weren't seriously intending to do that. It is odd that you call Mutt a 'center' considering that, in the posts immediately before yours, the situation seems to be turning more on you than on him. You seem to be using reaction fishing as a get-out-of-jail-free card the moment suspicion comes your way; you did it then and you've done it now.

Finally you strawman both me and MP5 when you say that we're hopping on you 'for TESTING'. I don't believe either of us are doing that? My vote was entirely serious and I want you lynched. I can't speak for MP5 but his vote looked pretty serious to me. You're a great troll, I'll give you that, but claiming that you post 'to analyse what you've seen' is a bit aggrandising on your part. We've had to push you for information and when it came out it didn't fit the facts.

I have, in fact, ISO'ed you and I've read every post you've made. I can in fact see that you withold things, and my issue is that you seem to withold everything. You leave everything open so that it can fit your story later if you need it to. I don't think you're scum from 'one little thing'; it comes from many things, some big and many small. I'm very confident in my read of you. You asked for facts and content, well, here it is.

Your jovial nature seems to have disappeared now. Why is this?