Newbie 1339 - Game Over! (Scum Win)

[Varsoon]

Good reads, Yoshi. I'm currently doing my own ISO of GIF, but that pretty much hits it directly.
I was leaning town for him, but now that I review it, I think I'm going to put him down as town now.
Will discuss this more in my ISO.

((If this posts twice, it's because of weirdness on this computer. I tried posting it earlier and it didn't seem to go through.))

[RandomYoshi]

GiF, thoughts on my read? Comments?

Varsoon, how do you agree with my read? Is there anything that we have divided opinions on? If so, I want those to be settled

right now

.

[RandomYoshi]

Also, I'll be going to bed soon. If I reply, it'll be using my phone, so I can't make any extensive reads of anyone. But if you want me to read somebody, request it and I'll have it done some time this week.

[Varsoon]

GiF, thoughts on my read? Comments?

Varsoon, how do you agree with my read? Is there anything that we have divided opinions on? If so, I want those to be settled

right now

.

I agree with most of the points that you made. I'm halfway done with my ISO on GiF, and he's so obviously town that it's painful.
The only points where I disagree is when you say it is/isn't scummy to do certain things. Scum will do anything to win.
However, GiF doesn't seem to have been the one really heavily pushing any wagons, and his plays today have been incredibly genuine, even if I know he's tunneling the shit out of me.

I'll get more into why I was doubtful in my ISO.

[Varsoon]

Oh. I have a vote on.
UNVOTE:
for now.

That's the thing. You ONLY say something when someone directs something at you.
You're not posting your thoughts, you're only defending yourself.

Nice try. But this is the first time someone talks directly to me.

So is that mean you won't ever talk unless someone talks to you directly?

Skimming over stuff for now and I see mostly a theory discussion. -.-

The post quota things and no-lynch discussion is something I'll have to look over closely.

I like that he takes down his previous vote and calls suspicion on Kur0. With Kur0 confirmed as town, this could be an attempt to begin a case on him, but it is much more like a townie just doing his usual scumhunting than scum pounding a wagon together out of flimsy arguments.

Oops. My bad. "Cheering" is better word to use.
And no I ain't scum.

Double-negative. Clearly means that he is scum. Guess I'm done with this ISO here.
Jokes aside, it's very playful of him to make this right as he came into the game, and it seems out of character for him to scumbluff like this since he hasn't scumbluffed -at all- through the rest of the game. It's geniune, to me.

Now continue with my reads (more like notes now XD).

RY

: post 63 seems town-ish. his post 86 skips the read about ANG, and then immediately votes ANG in post 88 saying "oh I forgot about him. also, he's my biggest scumread." It looks kinda awkward. His post 82 seems like he's just riding the general flow of the game. Oh. He admits that in post 112. In post 148, he points out fuzzy on not telling people fuzzy's change on V's read. Neither did RY at that point. His read changes in post 152 and.... V is in town again suddenly? And that was after Nacho pointing out that RY changed his read too quickly. First town-ish post in Post 216 from him imo. In post 218, he calls Nacho's post 207 as "obvious town post" and calls him a big townread. As far as I can see, I only see post 207 as IC post. In post 272.... uh... where did that Kuror0 vote came from? Post 274 he suddenly decided to "keep on eyes on nacho."

He seems flip-floppy, tends to ride the general flow of the game and stuff. Overall, leaning scum.

Rem

: I've been

stalking him

following some of his games and he seems like he really hates people calling him scum. So far, I see it as a personality stuff. (It's fun to poke him though ) No reads on him so far. Kitie really didn't post much, and it seems like Rem haven't finish his re-read so far. I guess Null for now.

Nacho and Kuror0 left.

P-edit

Note to self: never joke-comment.

Notice that I haven't pushed him further regarding that or even placed a vote on him. I wasn't planning on attacking him with that one silly quote as that would be dumb. I just forgot to unvote at the last post I made, and just a unvote seemed kinda empty so I made a joke post.

Interesting that he makes such note of Nacho and Kur0, but doesn't do as much ISO work on them as he does on Yoshi, here. Perhaps because he planned to NK them anyway? Regardless, I see his ISO/reads as being pretty genuinely town.

Rest of the reads:

Nachomamma8: His post 130 I can't set my mind upon. Few points from there I can see scumhunting going on, but it also seems like he's defending Varsoon and even coaching him. ("you're reacting too strongly. calm.") Like his interrogation on Fuzzy on post 132~139. He seems to ask questions that are not fillers but actually contentful questions. Other than what I pointed out, his play doesn't look scummy to me. He haven't worked on ANG and NS yet. Overall, leaning town.

Kuror0: Didn't do much until Post 201. Seems like the pressure on him was building from post 275. Since post 201, he was most entirely on Fuzzy it seems.

I would like to see his reads so far.

For now, null.

Conclusion: RY is the scummiest.

VOTE: RandomYoshi

Puts his vote on who he sees as scummiest and did a good job so far. I could read this as trying to buddy me by agreeing with my assessment of RY, but, regardless, the entire ISO process he went through as well as his vote placement is very town to me.

Rem? He overreacts when somebody throws suspicion at him. Bit flip-floppy (or wishy-washy however people call it.)and vote parking.

I take his overreaction as his personality/playstyle, but being flip-floppy and vote parking is a scumtell imo.

Notice how he agrees with my "comment" and immediatly land on me after Nacho points me out for it.

Also, his "reaction test" on RY was terrible. Putting somebody in L-1 as "reaction vote" is bit too much. (Even though he unvoted kinda quickly.)

Rem, can I have your reads, please?

Constantly asks for reads, which seems like a pro-town thing to do. Of course, reads also let scum manipulate town into mislynches. However, he never really got someone's reads and was like, "Yeah, let's lynch this scumtell of yours!", so this is more town than not. I like that he calls out the terrible Reaction test and then does one of his own, although it felt REALLY artificial to me at the time.

Reaction tests are done with hope to see certain reaction from the target. If he doesn't know which reaction he hopes to get from the target, why reaction test at the first place? Also, randomly voting someone to L-1 with an excuse of "reaction test" is anti-town at least.

Good points here, and, looking back, it speaks to how genuine his reaction test was. With no previous communication (this was D1), there would be no way for GiF and Yoshi to co-ordinate such a reaction test if they were scumteam. Considering this, as well as the current flow of the game, I can't help but put GiF and Yoshi on the side of town. It pains me to do it, since I've been against Yoshi for so long and because I was seriously considering a GiF/Yoshi scumteam. But, honestly, it's the decision between one of two different scumteams:
Yoshi/GiF, who are active players that seem very pro-town aside from some fluff on the Yoshi end of things (which has gotten WAY better on D3).
OR
Fuzzy/Goku, who I know are manipulating me and I've had suspicions of since they began.

Regardless, I feel like I'm being duped, and the possibility that Yoshi is still scum is there, as he could have seen through the reaction test and made a fake tombstone. Although, to be fair, he only had three minutes to do it.

So what is martyring?

Here are my scumlist:
-Rem (hell you know the reason.)
-Fuzzy (Still haven't done anything to change my read on him since my first read on him :<)
-Goku (This is pretty much PoE)

I don't want to lynch Rem today, though (he can be lynched tomorrow). So that leaves Fuzzy and Goku for my lynch choice today.

I still don't see how NS is scum, so someone will have to enlighten me about it with details and stuff.

Ugh, Fuzzy/Goku, Yoshi/GiF. I feel so caught inbetween.
However, I don't think scum would buddy up the way that Yoshi and GiF have. Fuzzy and Goku have been playing it a lot more safe/distanced that GiF and Yoshi, so, yeah.
Again, I'm stupid for making teams like this. We should consider every individual player, rather than grouping them in such ways.
Overlook nothing.

In conclusion, GuyInFreezer is town. His plays have been town since he began, and I've been hoping to get a scumslip from him since forever ago, but he's been consistently town.

[Varsoon]

Time to do an ISO of Fuzzy, then one of Yoshi.
Dreading it, since they both have so many posts.
Oh well, here goes.

[Varsoon]

Shit, half-way into my ISO on Fuzzy, remembered I have an appointment to keep!
BRB with more ISOs!

[RandomYoshi]

Actually, GiF, I require you to comment on my read on you. I don't want to incorrectly read anybody during this phase of the game.

[GuyInFreezer]

Actually, GiF, I require you to comment on my read on you. I don't want to incorrectly read anybody during this phase of the game.

Err. I hope you're not serious on this one. How would you want me to comment on your read on me when you just spammed it with "OMG GIF IS SOO TOWN IT HURTS MAN." Am I supposed to say "oh hei thanx mang u be mai bro 4evaa!" or something?

[Varsoon]

Sorry about jetting the other day, got sucked up into a load of errands, work, and more--didn't get free until 4 AM, when I went to sleep.
Will continue my reads/ISO's when I get the time.

[RandomYoshi]

Guy, I wasn't thinking straight when I posted that. Feel free to ignore it.

Anyway, will post what I've found about fuzzy later today.

[RandomYoshi]

fuzzy, you have been literally everywhere on this forum, but not in this thread. Why are you not contributing during LyLo?

[fuzzybutternut]

I've been on the thread, I've just been gathering my reads. Varsoon is so town it hurts now. GIF and Goku have to be scum.

[RandomYoshi]

Why is GiF Scum?

[fuzzybutternut]

PoE. I think you and Varsoon are town. Which leaves the three of us. I'm town, so one of them must be scum.

[RandomYoshi]

Okay. Now, let's say you want to lynch somebody. Who would you lynch?

[fuzzybutternut]

Personally, Goku. He hasn't done much of anything lately. He's not contributing to town success, and he hasn't said anything in over 100 posts. Not to mention he has literally 21 posts the whole game.

[RandomYoshi]

That's an interesting reply. Nonetheless, I'd like you to elaborate on how GiF is Scum. For obvious reasons, I'm not happy about using PoE during LyLo to indicate players' alignments. Mund grabbing quotes from him so we can discuss this matter thoroughly?

[RandomYoshi]

EBWOP: "mund" should be "mind"

[RandomYoshi]

I see Goku down there. Let's see what happens when he posts.

[RandomYoshi]

Goku's nonexistent post sure was anti climatic, wasn't it?

[GuyInFreezer]

Hi Fuzzy. What do you think of this? Especially #8.

Reasons behind my Quickhammer:

I hope that I can explain this in a step-by-step manner from the onset of Day 2.

1. Rem flips town.
2. NS is the person who hammered Rem. This makes me heavily suspicious. Especially since he did so without very much explanation as to why.
3. Kur0 is killed at night. One of the last posts Kur0 made was that he was going to go after NS if Rem flipped town. This plays to my earlier theory that scum is NK'ing targets who build suspicion against other townies. The same thing happened to Nacho, who started to build a case against me at the end of Day 2. If I'm lynched, scum wins via this tactic. On day 2, however, I fell for it, and suspected that NS was the one behind the NK of Kur0.
4. Nacho, who I believe to be the voice of reason in this game, voted for NS.
5. I respond on post 1057 by voting NS, speaking towards point #3 and point #1.
6. Post 1059. NS disengages and leaves to dinner. Say's he'll make posts later that night. He never does.
7. I pull back on the NS wagon, suspecting that Nacho could be pushing it for that early lynch. It's here that I begin to suspect that Nacho is scum and I go back to my initial reasoning that NS is just inactive town.
8. I see Yoshi put NS back at L-1. Having built cases against Yoshi in the past, I see this as a chance to quickhammer NS, who could be scum, and if he flips town, to have pretty definitive evidence that Yoshi is scum for putting NS at L-1.
9. I was frustrated with the length of our game.
10. I wanted to move on to other games. (This and 9 are evident in post 1106)
11. I was pressured IRL to get off the computer by a friend, who wanted to record more of a LP series we were doing, since he had to leave in about an hour or so.
12. With all of this in mind, I quickhammered NS, crossed my fingers that he was scum, and was hopeful that if he flipped town, it'd give me vital info on my usual scum-suspect, Yoshi.

[fuzzybutternut]

GiF, initially, when I read that, it read as town to me. Though, when brought up with a suspicious overtone like that, it allows me to read it in another light. Interesting.

FoS: Varsoon

[RandomYoshi]

Could you explain your thougt process behind this quasi-sudden read-flip?

[fuzzybutternut]

Yep. As I said, my two scum reads were from PoE. While I had somewhat of a case on Goku, my case on GiF is lacking. He brings up a good point though. One that I think should be looked at. I've never particularly seen scum do this, but it almost seems as if he fluttered a bit there, afraid he was going to be lynched for taking out an easy town.