/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Empire]

N hasn't played in any mafia games since replacing out. The timing of it (during the Night) also suggests that that is not what happened.

I don't think this is accurate. This is probably really nitpicky but the replace-out message came literally with the lynch scene and he hadn't posted since #704 so I think it's more plausible that N sent the message some time during the Day after #725 (the last VC before the penguin lynch) but before the Day's end -- so basically somewhere in that 8 hour time phase, i.e., not during the Night.

[Faraday]

Day 3, Votecount 5

Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Tammy, Llamarble

Benmage (3) - Shadoweh, OhGodMyLife, Nachomamma8

OhGodMyLife (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Nachomamma8 (1) - Benmage

Not voting (3) :

Deasvail, Empire, Tierce

• With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 7th of April at 3:59am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-06 23:59:59)
  
• Benmage is V/la

[Zachrulez]

N hasn't played in any mafia games since replacing out. The timing of it (during the Night) also suggests that that is not what happened.

I don't think this is accurate. This is probably really nitpicky but the replace-out message came literally with the lynch scene and he hadn't posted since #704 so I think it's more plausible that N sent the message some time during the Day after #725 (the last VC before the penguin lynch) but before the Day's end -- so basically somewhere in that 8 hour time phase, i.e., not during the Night.

You're right actually. The replace out notice came right as the lynch scene came up. On that note, I miss my own moderator format where I link the replace in point.

[Shadoweh]

Why does it matter when the replace out noticce came? This isn't me being snarky, I just don't understand what the difference is.
Also Bemnage's counter to OGML is that OGML is a terrible player and omg he's attacking Benmage's abs. Yeah.

I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS LYNCH AND I WON'T PUT MY HANDS UP AND SURRENDERyou know there is no good way to work in the rest of the lyrics.

[Empire]

Tierce, I went through all the games. There are some markers I've developed here for OGML-town based on what's been given but I want to see how his play develops over the course of the day so I'd rather not talk about them right now.

CES/Ben tomorrow after my classes.

[Tierce]

Spending the night out, Empire. We'll talk later.

[Nachomamma8]

Id lynch inte, only if it came to me or him.

I really think he's town otherwise his style of gameplay is insulting to the integrity of the game. I.e. whimsical noncontribution.

So anyways,

vote absta101

found this during my lurking benmage meta romp
my view is not quite intact.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho strangely is echoing points he tried to make on you as scum in white flag. I'm pretty convinced that I don't really have a perfect grip on your meta, but one of things I do recall being prominent as a meta point is that you hate lurking as scum.

white flag I had some "Benmage wouldn't lurk as scum in Team Mafia for Moral Reasons!" argument, actually.

The issue is not whether he's capable of lurking as scum (I think we can all agree that he is capable of it) but whether he'd actually go and contemplate that kind of strategy. It definitely seems like a point of pride for him (see: #192) and he's already mounted the kind of defense you're referring to (putting aside his most recent posts and #192, see #1075) so I don't really get where your accusation is coming from.

White Flag:

Spoiler: I AM SO TOWN

(imo, I just haven't awaken the dragon yet)

Zero incentive. Stated pressure votes = zero pressure.

FAIL.

It's not a pressure vote, it's a "I want you dead until you explain why you were gone for half of Day 1 if the reasons so suit my unvote" vote. Your uninvolvement was scummy.

So you'll sit uselessly voting me. Because 1 vote is zero inspiration.

And if others do vote me for the same premise.. All I do is commit X, and bam..votes go away.

*Yawn* I'm good for now.

Don't act so confused. Benmage ain't doing shit, and that's not the Benmage I know.

Are there any examples of ScumBenmage acting like that? (Hint: the answer is no)

Any examples of TownBenmage acting lackadaisical? (Hint: Yep)

P.S. the notion that MoS being on benmage's team is somehow incongruous with him being useless is nonsensical. And the person I'd most expect to care would be benmage if he were scum.

Thank you. Anyone worth 2 cents should have written me down as conftown long ago.

That said, quite comical I get some votes after promising to get my act together this weekend.

YEAH. I'm awesome in those town games.

And 100X more awesome in those scum games. WTF. Those scum games. Confmetown.

Your meta is actually kind of backwards to what I tend to expect from players, but is staggeringly easy to distinguish once you know what you're looking for.

Awesome scum games?
Dick town games?

g2g lil bros graduation, gosh zach get it together.

Spoiler: for those who think I'm still scum

Here’s a quick excerpt from in the court of gods. Its DTM, but most people will echo this:

You know what this is getting out of hand. I'd rather sink my gambit then spiral this out of contol.

I am a Town Hider

What I did was tell LLD that I will be targetting Benmage tonight and the game we did together (expressed by LLD) is Disgaea 2 Mafia. Benmage was a major leader in that game, and used RBT his mason vig buddy to shoot scumz and scummy players. He lead the town to almost victory before dying.

Benmage hasn't shown any of his leadership in this game so I had him under suspect.

The same type of play style (not caring, no cases, etc) applies to Benmage.

@Benmage
Don't you have insights of your own to put forward? Everything so far has been extremely reactionary. (There's no actions/scumhunting/etc put forward from you via cases at all).

6. Jack. Um... the Benmage thing did happen. I remember going oh lol wait I'm wrong,

but the laziness still is a valid point to attack

. And you attacked with me. I'll need to iso the rest to confirm Equinox's points now.

5. I also hate the implied notion that things can't continue until a flip/claim occurs. The stall comes from people not doing crap. Like Nopoint or

Benmage

. Farside, Equinox, and DGB/Andruis are examples of attacks elsewhere (While DGB is being lolz about it).

11. If Benmage continues to self meta I want game references plz and thanks.

(I just love selfmeta)

Here we have mini 1168 the links below show a lack of activity/prod doging from May18 to June 1.:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3060880
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3067726
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3078466
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3087630

Lets look at LLD in AGM’s CYS:

@Mod: Can I get a mass prod? If not, can I get a prod on CSL, Katsuki, Ani, Maemuki, MOI and Benmage?

(Like I said in the VC - it's a weekend, but I'll be sending out a giant prod wave tomorrow. --AGM)

Also, Benmage is looking pretty bad. He's usually got more to say than this.

@Benmage: Who is scum?

Benmage, you're useless.

Me falling behind:
March 29

This wasn't suppose to be a spam game...I'll try and read tomorrow..

April 1.

Apologies, I'll see what I can do later tonight.

Me trying to catchup and getting angry:

Because this was so difficult for you...How far behind in this game am I?? Oh yeah... BUT WOES ME FOR ASKING TO MAKE MY LIFE A LITTLE EASIER...how fucking anti-town can you be. And you have the audacity to try and make me look back with your shitty belittling link comment....fucking uncalled for and disgusting. Go fuck yourself.

Next time you skim read...wait to see if someone else answered the request, save us from calling the whambulance.

OO this is good:

Myb for mia again....ill get back in here soon.

Dinner with the fam...then hopefully some freetime for mafia.

*insert peter griffin awkward laugh* 5 more pgs down putting me onto top of 11 ... I forgot too much from what I skimmed since where I left off..so hopefully from here I'll stay concurrent while catching up.

^^^Click that link. Thats me saying I just read 5 pages bringing me to pg 11... when the games on pg 32. LOL. This was a really shitty townbenmagegame.

So are we convinced Shitgames = Benmagetown yet?

How about that dragon reference from ACoK:

I've seen Benmage play town, in WoT Mafia and another game (I think one of the Freaktowns). There, he was super-aggressive, abrasive, controversial, made a lot of crappy arguments and weak attacks on obvtown, and was a major lynch target. But he was totally unconcerned with what other people though of him. I see a difference here. He keeps

stalling for time

, ingratiating himself to people who aren't I doubt it, playing nice and going with the flow, blatantly bandwagoning, etc. He never even reacted emotionally to my attack on him on Day One. I think that if he were town, he'd get a lot more heated in response. Dude, I called him a PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE BULLY.

Can you please stop it?

Lol! Stop being me. I get complained about not being me. You awake the dragon and complain. Listen if you're gonna play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

OHHHH YEAH.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/8cdYSMuhiZJG

Mafia invictus scum qt. Post 128 DGB tells us to strategically lurk. Post 130 I say lurking as scum is lameeee.

I've always found lurking as scum horrrible.

But I just showed several examples of me dropping the ball as town, and zero examples of me dropping the ball as scum.

Sure this could be some predesigned meta excuse... or it could just be history repeating itself.

This is the difference that made me nervous. The latest post is old Benmage, but he was still pretty intense in self-meta'ing during WF.

[Nachomamma8]

my reads have gone to shit

Vote: Llamarble

[Llamarble]

I know you need me to be mislynched to have any chance at all of winning and so forth, but it just isn't going to happen

Lynch CES, lynch nacho, reread, probably lynch OGML though DV also looks promising.
We haven't done awesomely on lynches so far but the rest of the way looks pretty easy.

[DeasVail]

Sorry! I'll finish off my reads over the weekend.

[Benmage]

Why does it matter when the replace out noticce came? This isn't me being snarky, I just don't understand what the difference is.
Also Bemnage's counter to OGML is that OGML is a terrible player and omg he's attacking Benmage's abs. Yeah.

I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS LYNCH AND I WON'T PUT MY HANDS UP AND SURRENDERyou know there is no good way to work in the rest of the lyrics.

So you think I distanced CTD, and I am buddying CES/manipulating my PERFECT meta... for this game?

[Benmage]

You do realize OGML has like 16 posts the entire game, and only one where you can accept it as a passable post, the rest is fluffy.

But no, I'm sure he's a phenomenal player zzzzzzzzzz...

[OhGodMyLife]

How much more refuge in audacity does Benmage have to take before people get their heads out of their asses?

[Zachrulez]

Back to N for a moment:

Tierceflail

What is this? N has seen me as Town and as scum, he has been my scumbuddy, and this is all he has to say about me so far. I ask him for reads, he gives an empty Nacho read and doesn't do anything else. It's hollow, doesn't have any meat, and doesn't feel like the Town-N-pissed-off-at-the-game in general that I know and love. THAT N is participative, throws his weight behind what he believes in, does stuff. This feels much closer to the lurkerscum N that occasionally snipes in with a pretense at weak commentary.

Aw, I didn't know you cared.

I've noticed in quite a few of my games I've alienated people and gotten myself mislynched, so I'm trying a new thing. I'm not sure what you're exactly expecting from me (have you gotten my meta mixed up with someone else's?), but I can go through the whole thread and make snarky comments if you'd like?

This bothers me because N basically makes an excuse for his play looking like his scum meta. What this amounts to is an admission that he's playing to his lurkerscum meta and the explanation is "mixing up his play." to try to dismiss how scummy this observation should look to Tierce.

I don't really like the "I'm not sure what you're exactly expecting from me" either. It seems pretty clear what she expected.

This inclines me to keep my vote right where it is.

I still maintain the replacement thing is null.

[Benmage]

How much more refuge in audacity does Benmage have to take before people get their heads out of their asses?

Tunnel blinds.. pretend for one second you aren't as bad as you appear to be.

News flash, if I don't flip scum, then what??!? BAM mindfucked dumbasss scub. (Remind me in the next invitational to take OGML off... fucking scrubs in this game, disgusting..) Go fluff another 50+ pages with less than 20 posts, you are USELESSSSSS

[Benmage]

Oh ogml was replacement derp myself... I guess one can't be too nitpicky with replacements in general. They always ruin games. See OGML is mafia yoloville.

[Llamarble]

How much more refuge in audacity does Benmage have to take before people get their heads out of their asses?

Tunnel blinds.. pretend for one second you aren't as bad as you appear to be.

News flash, if I don't flip scum, then what??!? BAM mindfucked dumbasss scub. (Remind me in the next invitational to take OGML off... fucking scrubs in this game, disgusting..) Go fluff another 50+ pages with less than 20 posts, you are USELESSSSSS

Your play is pretty feeble too Benmage.
We'll get to which of you two dies later.
You can help it be not yourself by voting CES.

[Llamarble]

Also for all the town-assuming we're doing for Tammy/Empire/Tierce, I would like to see a lot more out of them.
Empire's effort level is decidedly medium and contains a lot of 'look at me reading all this meta about people' and basically zero "I have found a convincing scumbag guys let's lynch them for the following decent reasons."
Tierce
Benmage
DV
Tammy
Nacho
3 of the 5 people on Empire's NEVER LYNCH EVER list have solid chances of being scum. Good Jorb.
And come on. What is 990.
I'll take Tierce and Tammy and deadVi's word for it, but yeah.

Anyway, I grow bored lets lynch CES.
CES is scum because he can't not be, which is less fun than catching someone's specific scumplays or scum attitude but will still result in town winning.

[Nachomamma8]

CES is scum because he can't not be, which is less fun than catching someone's specific scumplays or scum attitude but will still result in town winning.

Why can't CES be town?

[Llamarble]

You're a funny one to say that. Pose to me how we get to our current situation without CES being scum.
You mean to tell me a town containing Vi, CES, Tierce, me, and various other good players mislynched twice against a scumteam of Benmage, OGML, and DV? I don't think so.

Given that you are voting me, and that your IQ is over 40, you pretty much have to be scum too at this point.
Can you seriously read over all my play from D1, all my play from D2, and all my play from D3 and not hear the voices say TOWN TOWN TOWN?
CES isn't pretending I'm scum; he's aware he has a much better chance of surviving by trying to get me to lynch somebody else than trying to lynch me.
You should learn from the wisdom of your scum-brother.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Town mislynching doesn't really take much + you're implicitly just arguing that Vi and me can't have an argument while both town which is silly.

(Really, if you ever feel the need to phrase your argument in generalities such as those, it's probably a bad argument. Good arguments survive contact with the thread.)

[DeasVail]

OhGodMyLife:

421 and 641 are maybe a bit 'show-off-ish'. As in instead of just asking what it means, N needs to make some kind of show out of it.

Overall though, I still think N's play is not how he'd approach the game as scum (I think there would be more effort put into looking town) and his attack on Empire is another thing that I think is townish.

Now onto OGML:

I thought 832 was scummy because it's a bit silly to expect people to be interested in a Benmage wagon when he hasn't even read the thread properly or provided any reason for Benmage being scum. It seems more likely that it's scum trying to think of something to say so that their prod-dodge isn't just a nothing post.

I think his attack on Benmage is pretty town though, so he can be a townread, but I'm not too sure.

Nacho

1056 seems like an attempt to look town maybe?

He seems a little more town with his meta stuff on Benmage. Still probably less so than CES/Benmage though.

I'll probably continue this afternoon (mainly just want to read through Shadow again although a quick skim right now and she still looks town), but I think I'll be going with Nacho and I still haven't decided who I'd prefer out of Benmage/CES (hopefully I won't need to?).

[Nachomamma8]

You're a funny one to say that. Pose to me how we get to our current situation without CES being scum.
You mean to tell me a town containing Vi, CES, Tierce, me, and various other good players mislynched twice against a scumteam of Benmage, OGML, and DV? I don't think so.

hold on. let me paint you a picture:

Oh hey

less than a day left

and rapidly approaching a point where claims are too little too late.

Well we need a lynch.

And plus we can use this mislynch against Vi.

Day 2, Votecount 15

Vi (1) - Tammy
Untrod Tripod (1) - Deasvail

Shadoweh (6) - Tierce, Cogito Ergo Sum, Vi, Llamarble, Untrod Tripod, Empire

Benmage (3) - Nachomamma8, OhGodMyLife, Shadoweh
OhGodMyLife (1) - Benmage

Not voting (1) :

Zachrulez

• With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 22nd of March at 11:59pm GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-22 19:59:59)
  
• No One V/la

I added an extra 24+change hours to the deadline.

VOTE: Untrod Tripod
Claim!

VOTE: Untrod Tripod
Claim!

town roleblocker!

^fuck that
HRMMM
-------------------[]

unvote vote Untold Tripod

boom goes the dynamite.

[Llamarble]

Town mislynching doesn't really take much + you're implicitly just arguing that Vi and me can't have an argument while both town which is silly.

(Really, if you ever feel the need to phrase your argument in generalities such as those, it's probably a bad argument. Good arguments survive contact with the thread.)

I think that if the scumteam does not contain CES, and we're not wrong about TET, any scumteam composed of the remaining options should be in tatters by now.
CES is good at town, and so are lots of others. We haven't lived up to our expected collective proficiency, which I find much more likely if one of our highest-potential-usefulness players is scum.
Yesterday's shadoweh wagon was all town unless CES is scum or TET has scum. I find CES scum easiest to believe given Shadoweh's play yesterday.
We also had a 4 person CES wagon containing presumed towns and OGML. This sounds pretty good to me; I'm starting to lean away from OGML scum anyway.
I don't see the CES driving townie vigor I've seen in the past.
And where don't you agree with my PoE process?
Not me, not TET, not Zach
Probably not Shadoweh
Maybe Benmage / DV / OGML
Probably Nacho
You

That's not exactly a large pool to deal with, and you've been guardian of the CTD / voter of people who have flipped town, Shadoweh, and OGML.

How do you feel about Nacho? I think he's the most likely non-you lynch today.

Do you agree that we probably win if we lynch everyone but me / TET / Zach / Shadoweh?