Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:01 am

Post by fferyllt »

AlexisTay3 wrote:
fferyllt wrote:er...it's readable, but I got "questionably" into the middle of "most" somehow.

My typos may be middling to horrific over the next few weeks. I have a new laptop with a larger keyboard than I am used to. And I type pretty fast. I've usually hit enter before the typos register.


I get the feeling this post may have been a bit too deliberate. Town or Scum, it's online, and you have time to review your post. Not a strong read, but definitely something to refer to.

That was mostly an "incoming!" Whether I should review posts before submitting is not up for debate. Whether I do can be empirically tested, and in fact I've got a pile of recent posts on MS from the last couple weeks that testify to my lack of proofreading. I've left a trail of typos since switching to this laptop.

I haven't adapted to the pace of multi-week games yet. Nearly all the games I've played in the past had 12 to 24 hour game days and at times the pace gets brutal. I don't do a lot of review before moving on to the next thing. You can imagine me on the opposite side of your screen obsessively pressing the refresh button.
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:06 am

Post by Deras »

Revenus wrote:
Where I played my previous games lynching lurkers is always a scummy move.


Personally I believe that if people took a more hardline stance on lurkers (aka, line up everyone who lurkers, and kill the scummiest on day 1), then people would be more disinclined to lurk.


How would you pick the scummiest one if they're lurking? I mean, wouldn't that mean you don't have much to go on?
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:29 am

Post by Revenus »

Deras wrote:How would you pick the scummiest one if they're lurking? I mean, wouldn't that mean you don't have much to go on?



There's still content to go off of.



Also, developing a townread on Frompone. Dude has had nothing but towny posts so far.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:17 am

Post by Eye Urn »

Deras wrote:
Revenus wrote:
Where I played my previous games lynching lurkers is always a scummy move.


Personally I believe that if people took a more hardline stance on lurkers (aka, line up everyone who lurkers, and kill the scummiest on day 1), then people would be more disinclined to lurk.


How would you pick the scummiest one if they're lurking? I mean, wouldn't that mean you don't have much to go on?


Easy, you pick the person who's only trying to appear to not lurk. Like someone who drops in and posts a brief message on page 3 while only having 1 other post with a random vote and nothing of substance.

VOTE: Deras

Carey feels most scummy of the rest having only made one post with effectively no content, and if he truly sucks at Mafia perhaps he'll do better as scum to not post much; as such, he's next on my list of lynch candidates for now. Birdman has yet to confirm, so there's no read on that. The rest of you haven't really made any particular impression that would sway me from neutral leaning town by default. Most townish leaning is Fropome, for not pushing the idea from his previous site that it's scummy to lynch lurkers; lynching lurking Town isn't as good as lynching scum, but lurking doesn't help town so in the absence of a scum lead getting rid of someone who's not contributing (or like Deras is only appearing to not lurk) is the best move.

--

I really hate replacements that occur after a significant portion of the game plays out. Part of it is having played a lot of live games where subbing out just isn't even a possibility, part of it is just not really understanding how one should be reconciling reads between two radically different people that you know you should be treating as the same person. Perhaps one should just treat them as confirmed as the same (unknown) alignment and role, and not really worry about the fact they represent the same in-game slot. Replacements due to someone not confirming are much easier, as you can just treat them as someone that was unavailable the first few days.
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:29 am

Post by fferyllt »

Good stuff, Eye. That is two tentative town reads for me.
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:34 am

Post by Eye Urn »

One thing I find rather amusing about our SEs and IC is that they appear to not represent all that much experience. Carey admits he's pretty bad, goodmorning has only been on the site a few months, and Revenus, well, I have a memory of reading through a game where he did something rather objectionable that reinforces the comment by goodmorning about his past behavior. That said, he looks like he's actually interested in this game, which I don't know whether I should put down to site maturity or drawing scum. The somewhat uncharacteristic behavior definitely makes me not entirely trust my slightly town read on him, but we'll have to see what happens as the game progresses.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:09 am

Post by fferyllt »

I'm a little suspicious of goodmorning for getting a townfeel for me as she puts it. My early posts last night were semi-intentionally flaky. My tentative reads she mostly disagreed had basis. As an external observer, to the extent I can get my head there, I'd not have a strong read on someone with my posts at the time she made that post.

Eye, I find the pace of these games, especially the newbie games to be very slow at times. That said, I also don't like Deras' or Carey's level of engagement so far.
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:18 am

Post by Deras »

I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.

Eye Urn wrote:One thing I find rather amusing about our SEs and IC is that they appear to not represent all that much experience. Carey admits he's pretty bad, goodmorning has only been on the site a few months, and Revenus, well, I have a memory of reading through a game where he did something rather objectionable that reinforces the comment by goodmorning about his past behavior. That said, he looks like he's actually interested in this game, which I don't know whether I should put down to site maturity or drawing scum. The somewhat uncharacteristic behavior definitely makes me not entirely trust my slightly town read on him, but we'll have to see what happens as the game progresses.

While we have their past behaviour to go on, I wouldn't rely too much on it or they might start using that as an excuse. Whatever their experience is, it's probably still more than most of us.

Speaking about experience and because someone mentioned introductions as an alternative way to random voting, I've played somewhere around 10 mafia games, some 5 years ago in another forum. Since I can just go around this forum and check other people's games, I wonder if it's allowed/recommended that I should link you guys to my old forum so you can check some of my games? (If you want to take the trouble of browsing around it)
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:24 am

Post by fferyllt »

Deras, I've seen some players link to off site games. If you want to, there's no restriction against it.

My wiki link button in my miniprofile leads to information about my completed games here. There are only two, so far, but I think at least my town game is fairly well represented. Getting a scum role for my first game on the site encouraged me to take full advantage of not having any site meta.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:34 am

Post by Deras »

fferyllt wrote:Deras, I've seen some players link to off site games. If you want to, there's no restriction against it.

My wiki link button in my miniprofile leads to information about my completed games here. There are only two, so far, but I think at least my town game is fairly well represented. Getting a scum role for my first game on the site encouraged me to take full advantage of not having any site meta.


Ok, thanks. Then just in case anyone wants to stalk me, I used to play here http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewforum.php?f=24

Here are a couple of my old games, the first ones I played I think but there's more I'm sure:
http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewtopic.php?t=11397
http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewtopic.php?t=10707
http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewtopic.php?t=11111

You might also find a reference somewhere around there to me being probably the worst player ever, don't trust them :P
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:37 am

Post by fferyllt »

Deras do you have any reads so far?
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:48 am

Post by Deras »

fferyllt wrote:Deras do you have any reads so far?

Deras wrote:I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.


I don't think there's been enough pression on someone to get them to react, unless you count Fropome on post 35, which does seem like a bit of an overreaction. I don't know/remember enough of the theory to find scum tells this early, but I'm catching up on it.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:06 am

Post by goodmorning »

Eye Urn wrote:
Easy, you pick the person who's only trying to appear to not lurk. Like someone who drops in and posts a brief message on page 3 while only having 1 other post with a random vote and nothing of substance.

VOTE: Deras


It's still pretty early on, but I like the thought process.

Stuff about replacements.

For me, I take a step back for a day or two when someone new replaces in, time permitting, then I read the whole slot again. Some people are very good at turning reads around whether they should be or not.

fferyllt wrote:I'm a little suspicious of goodmorning for getting a townfeel for me as she puts it. My early posts last night were semi-intentionally flaky. My tentative reads she mostly disagreed had basis. As an external observer, to the extent I can get my head there, I'd not have a strong read on someone with my posts at the time she made that post.

1. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you're not on the same team.
2. I think they do have basis, but in some cases... I don't know what I was trying to say here, just don't get lulled into a false sense of security.
3. It took me a little while to feel comfortable with having gut reads. Everyone differs. At any rate, it's not like a pg2 Townfeel makes you confTown.

Eye, I find the pace of these games, especially the newbie games to be very slow at times. That said, I also don't like Deras' or Carey's level of engagement so far.

THEY CAN BE SO GLACIAL
As far as activity levels go: everyone has lives. I had it said to me in an early game here that the expectation is for players to be on probably once a day in Newbie games (though more is of course preferable).

Deras wrote:I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.

Just post. Don't worry about looking scummy. If you do something that looks scummy, better to find out D1 than D3. Plus there is at least one other person on your team; even if you die, you won't necessarily lose.
Some people form reads later than others. That's cool too. If you notice anything you think is unusual from a player, that's usually a good place to start.

While we have their past behaviour to go on, I wouldn't rely too much on it or they might start using that as an excuse. Whatever their experience is, it's probably still more than most of us.

Good point. How much
can
you trust meta? I've no idea.

Since I can just go around this forum and check other people's games, I wonder if it's allowed/recommended that I should link you guys to my old forum so you can check some of my games?

You're welcome to if you like. It's not really necessary, though, and 5 years is quite a long time.

Whoops. Another quote wall. Oh well.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:30 am

Post by Revenus »

meta is only useful if a player doesn't change their playstyle. If a player is concious of the meta someone else mentions, it's useless, and in the case of determining whether someone is scum, if the player is good enough, they can change their behavior more easily than you think.


As far as @
Deras
goes.


I don't think there's been enough pression on someone to get them to react, unless you count Fropome on post 35, which does seem like a bit of an overreaction. I don't know/remember enough of the theory to find scum tells this early, but I'm catching up on it.


Really? This is a really bad post. It feels like you're fishing for other people to call Fropome scum, and at the same time, you're saying "well, I haven't found anything really scummy".

If you haven't found any scum tells this early, why mention the overreaction? Is it scummy? Or did you just mention it for kicks?
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:52 am

Post by Deras »

Revenus wrote:Really? This is a really bad post. It feels like you're fishing for other people to call Fropome scum, and at the same time, you're saying "well, I haven't found anything really scummy".

If you haven't found any scum tells this early, why mention the overreaction? Is it scummy? Or did you just mention it for kicks?


I was asked if I had any reads and I replied that no, I don't, this thing jumps to my attention but I don't think it's really scummy, just peculiar.
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:53 am

Post by Revenus »

So it's not scummy, just peculiar?

I still don't like this

Vote:deras
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:13 am

Post by Deras »

Voting for me just because I point out something that sounds weird to me seems like a poor excuse to get a bandwagon going in my opinion.

Vote:Revenus
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:26 am

Post by goodmorning »

@Revenus: I pointed things out and didn't call them alignment-indicative. Why jump on Deras and not on me?
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:50 am

Post by Eye Urn »

Deras wrote:I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.


That is, you're afraid of giving yourself away with what might be obvious scum tells, so you're not posting at first to see what others do before copying town players. Nice idea, but I see through it. At least you're posting, but all I can see is more scummy behavior.

Deras wrote:
fferyllt wrote:Deras do you have any reads so far?

Deras wrote:I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.


I don't think there's been enough pression on someone to get them to react, unless you count Fropome on post 35, which does seem like a bit of an overreaction. I don't know/remember enough of the theory to find scum tells this early, but I'm catching up on it.


Well hopefully this puts more pressure on you to get you to try to be more pro-town. You've done nothing but post a single ambivalent reaction to one person, so that means you've done nothing at all to help us out. You also seem to be focusing on what behavior is scummy, and while that's important, it's just as important to voice your views about whose actions you feel are town.

Deras wrote:
Revenus wrote:Really? This is a really bad post. It feels like you're fishing for other people to call Fropome scum, and at the same time, you're saying "well, I haven't found anything really scummy".

If you haven't found any scum tells this early, why mention the overreaction? Is it scummy? Or did you just mention it for kicks?


I was asked if I had any reads and I replied that no, I don't, this thing jumps to my attention but I don't think it's really scummy, just peculiar.


That is, you're really stretching for thing to say because you're under pressure with trying to come up with reads when you already know who is and isn't scum.

Deras wrote:Voting for me just because I point out something that sounds weird to me seems like a poor excuse to get a bandwagon going in my opinion.

Vote:Revenus


As much as I am a bit suspicious of Revenus in his last few posts, this is a terrible reason to vote for someone. Bandwagons are not bad things; you need them to lynch people, and you need to lynch people to kill the scum. You clearly don't want the pressure placed on you and are trying to deflect it somewhere else in any way you can.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:41 pm

Post by fferyllt »

Deras wrote:
fferyllt wrote:Deras, I've seen some players link to off site games. If you want to, there's no restriction against it.

My wiki link button in my miniprofile leads to information about my completed games here. There are only two, so far, but I think at least my town game is fairly well represented. Getting a scum role for my first game on the site encouraged me to take full advantage of not having any site meta.


Ok, thanks. Then just in case anyone wants to stalk me, I used to play here http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewforum.php?f=24

Here are a couple of my old games, the first ones I played I think but there's more I'm sure:
http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewtopic.php?t=11397
http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewtopic.php?t=10707
http://forums.nexuswar.com/viewtopic.php?t=11111

You might also find a reference somewhere around there to me being probably the worst player ever, don't trust them :P

Oh my god a 90 page mini-game.

Deras are you familiar with the mafia abbreviation OMGUS?
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:45 pm

Post by TraceyLyn11 »

VOTE COUNT 1.1


[L-4] Fropome: (AlexisTay3)

[L-5] fferyllt:

:right:
[L-3] Deras: (Eye Urn, Revenus)

[L-5] AlexisTay3:

[L-4] Birdland: (CareyHammer)

[L-5] Eye Urn:

[L-4] CareyHammer: (goodmorning)

:right:
[L-3] Revenus: (Fropome, Deras)

[L-5] goodmorning:


Not Voting:
2 (fferyllt, Birdland)

  • With nine alive, it takes five to lynch.
  • Day One's deadline: April 18, 2013 CST or in (expired on 2013-04-18 20:45:00).
  • V/LA: No one.


goodmorning wrote:Also HIIIII TRACEYYYYYYY
HIIIIIIII GOOOOOODDDDYYYYY


Fropome wrote:My first game here, it's been a painful wait but I'm pleased it landed to Tracey who is an excellent mod from what I've seen (Hi Tracy, and happy (belated) birthday!)
D'aaaaw, thanks. :]
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~Currently on a hiatus of an indefinite time period~
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:47 pm

Post by TraceyLyn11 »

It has been forty-eight hours and Birdland has not posted. He will be replaced.

Searching...
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:30 pm

Post by goodmorning »

Eye Urn wrote:You also seem to be focusing on what behavior is scummy, and while that's important, it's just as important to voice your views about whose actions you feel are town.

YES. Townhunting is a very good (and vastly understated) tool in this game.

TraceyLyn11 wrote:
It has been forty-eight hours and Birdland has not posted. He will be replaced.

Searching...


THIS IS GOING TO TAKE FOREVER*

*forever is an amount of time defined by x, where x is always < 10 seconds

I'm pretty excited to see who gets the spot...
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:31 pm

Post by goodmorning »

CAPSLOCK FOREVER <3
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:32 pm

Post by Deras »

Eye Urn wrote:
Deras wrote:I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.


That is, you're afraid of giving yourself away with what might be obvious scum tells, so you're not posting at first to see what others do before copying town players. Nice idea, but I see through it. At least you're posting, but all I can see is more scummy behavior.

:/ I meant I'd like to see more in order to get a better read on people and since I had nothing I'd rather not make just contentless posts

Eye Urn wrote:That is, you're really stretching for thing to say because you're under pressure with trying to come up with reads when you already know who is and isn't scum.

No, I just don't have any reads yet so I just pointed out the only out of the ordinary thing I noticed, and inmediately after I did so Revenus went for me, which I find odd.

Eye Urn wrote:As much as I am a bit suspicious of Revenus in his last few posts, this is a terrible reason to vote for someone. Bandwagons are not bad things; you need them to lynch people, and you need to lynch people to kill the scum. You clearly don't want the pressure placed on you and are trying to deflect it somewhere else in any way you can.

My point is he seemed to jump at the opportunity of getting someone, anyone, lynched, in what is, in my admittedly biased eyes, a flawed argument.

fferyllt wrote:Deras are you familiar with the mafia abbreviation OMGUS?

I wasn't but now that you mention it I guess that's sorta what I did.
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