Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

haha that was my first drunkpost at ms.

[Eye Urn]

Fro is talking a lot about being scum, but I have no idea what I think that means.

I thought the meaning of my posts was pretty clear? Maybe that IC hat has fallen in front of your eyes.
What would you say town's job is?

Ok, so this is what you're saying is defensive? I think you both misunderstood each other in different ways. Fropome, is English not your first language? I've seen a few other weird things that makes me think you're a non-native speaker. GM said she didn't know what your posts meant on the level of whether you're scum, and from your response I take it that you thought she didn't understand the bare semantic meaning or surface content of the posts. (I didn't notice this particular interaction on first read because Frop didn't quote GM; I actually hadn't considered what it was in response to but do remember that it seemed weird because I didn't recall any trouble anyone had with understanding). Yes, I can see what GM might see as a bit defensive, but I think it's because Frop didn't understand the level of meaning that GM wasn't sure about. GM's vote makes far more sense to me, but I think is ultimately based on a misunderstanding.

[Eye Urn]

ok, I'm back. let me catch up. I do care about this game, just finished another elsewhere, so this one has my attention now. Was just trying to say "hi, i'm here" not lurking, just posting no content.

What's the difference between lurking and posting no content? In terms of usefulness to town, there isn't any - and the latter is much more likely to be scum in my experience. Plus, it's over 7.5 hours later, and you've given us nothing. I'm not liking it. I'm not going to bother changing my vote since it's still early and I already have my vote in a very good place, but without Deras you'd definitely have my vote for this. Both of you need to start contributing real discussion.

[Deras]

Okay so I re-read the whole thread and took notes (thanks Fropome, the idea hadn't even crossed my mind :/) which I feel gave me a better perspective on things, here's the feelings I got:

Fropome: I feel his posts are mostly protown, the overly defensive reaction on post 35 still seems odd but overall I'm inclined to think he's town.

fferyllt: She seems to be the one that's most encouraging of discussion and has a bunch of protown posts, she's the most townie in my eyes.

AlexisTay3: He has participated some, but not overly much (me=hypocrite much?) and hasn't commited to anything. I have him as neutral atm.

Mac: Having just come into the game, and with just 1 post so far, I don't have any read on him yet.

Eye Urn: Seems to be encouraging discussion same as fferyllt, I feel he's townish.

CareyHammer: He's just lurking around, and he doesn't have enough posts for me to get a feel. I'd be inclined to vote for him in order to get him into the game though.

Revenus: He's posted some protown stuff, but I still feel his reasoning for voting for me is shaky (as opposed to Eye arguing about pseudolurking). I'd say neutral.

Goodmorning: Her posts seem protown but I don't know how much of that is actual discussion and how much is just the IC talking. Her vote for Fropome really threw me off as it seems pretty random or wihtout much basis. Probably the scummiest in my eyes other than Carey atm.

If I were to rank them I'd say:

fferyllt>Eye Urn>Fropome>AlexisTay3>Revenus>Goodmorning>CareyHammer.

In post 76, Fropome wrote:
In post 45, goodmorning wrote:
Bit defensive, this.

Not at all, not when there's possibly three scum tells in your post.

Could you point out what those three scum tells are? (Unless it's bad for town, I'm not sure if that's the case)

My vote on Revenus was a knee-jerk reaction so I'm gonna

Unvote

and wait to place a better thought-out vote.

Offtopic: While reviewing the thread I found out that you can check a single player's posts with the menu at the bottom of the page, and you can quote a specific part of a post by selecting it the clicking "Quote", just in case someone else didn't know

[AlexisTay3]

Fro is talking a lot about being scum, but I have no idea what I think that means.

I thought the meaning of my posts was pretty clear? Maybe that IC hat has fallen in front of your eyes.
What would you say town's job is?

Ok, so this is what you're saying is defensive? I think you both misunderstood each other in different ways. Fropome, is English not your first language? I've seen a few other weird things that makes me think you're a non-native speaker. GM said she didn't know what your posts meant on the level of whether you're scum, and from your response I take it that you thought she didn't understand the bare semantic meaning or surface content of the posts. (I didn't notice this particular interaction on first read because Frop didn't quote GM; I actually hadn't considered what it was in response to but do remember that it seemed weird because I didn't recall any trouble anyone had with understanding). Yes, I can see what GM might see as a bit defensive, but I think it's because Frop didn't understand the level of meaning that GM wasn't sure about. GM's vote makes far more sense to me, but I think is ultimately based on a misunderstanding.

I like where Eye is going with this. That's someone up the ranks of my reads.

Other than that, I like how fff didn't outright state her reason (Post #85) for suspicion of GM and led to GM posting her Post #86. I feel that the subsequent discussion between the two of them is definitely something to look back at in later game.

Deras, I like how you unvoted Rev and immediately tried contributing your above post after all that pressure. It looks like an honest town move to me.

Currently, at most scummy, I have GM and Carey. I want to hear what GM has to say to Eye's post above.

At most town, I have Eye and Fro.

[AlexisTay3]

Okay so I re-read the whole thread and took notes (thanks
AlexisTay3: He has participated some, but not overly much (me=hypocrite much?) and hasn't commited to anything. I have him as neutral atm.

Haha, thanks for noting the similarity in our behaviour so far. I would dare say that it's really just my playstyle, at least from how I played in RL games. Conspiracy theorist in the making.

Also, you may take some time to learn how to engage in discussion when what you've mostly been doing is being the moderator for the past few years. It's kinda refreshing becoming a newb all over, wouldn't you say?

[goodmorning]

Goodmorning: Her posts seem protown but I don't know how much of that is actual discussion and how much is just the IC talking. Her vote for Fropome really threw me off as it seems pretty random or wihtout much basis.

Anything where I talk about the mechanics/theory of the game or the mechanics of the forum is probably an IC post. Anything where I talk about player behavior is probably actual discussion. Anything that is neither is probably fluff.
This is a good point though.

This part of this post is kind of IC and player, that does happen occasionally.

Offtopic: While reviewing the thread I found out that you can check a single player's posts with the menu at the bottom of the page, and you can quote a specific part of a post by selecting it the clicking "Quote", just in case someone else didn't know

More fun mechanics include:
the post tags, which will link to a post if you type

Code: Select all

[post]X[/post]

(where X is the post number)

the spoiler tags,

Code: Select all

[spoiler]blacks out text[/spoiler]

and

Code: Select all

[spoiler=X]compresses into hide/show format[/spoiler]

the URL tags,

Code: Select all

[url=http://something.com]URL text[/url]

Yet ANOTHER cool thing is the "Activity Overview" thing in the bottom right. Tells you how many posts a player has, how long since they've last posted AND if you click their number of posts it'll take you to that player's ISO.

This part of this post is IC, and also I love the post tags because they let me build cases that aren't quote walls.

[Eye Urn]

Test post to see what time the forums are showing me.

[Eye Urn]

Indeed, the forums think I am in a different time zone than I think I am in. I shall need to rectify this somehow.

[Eye Urn]

It was a Daylight savings time thing. I apologize for stating that 7.5 hours had passed, when only 6.5 had. But now 10 hours have past without anything from Carey, and Deras has at least contributed something slightly worthwhile.

VOTE: CareyHammer

For implying that not posting and posting worthless fluff were any different, for claiming he was going to start caring about this game but not contributing for as it stands now almost half a day, and of course not saying anything worthwhile.

I'd like to here more from Mac as well, but I don't really have much reason to believe he's scum like with Carey.

[fferyllt]

Okay so I re-read the whole thread and took notes (thanks
AlexisTay3: He has participated some, but not overly much (me=hypocrite much?) and hasn't commited to anything. I have him as neutral atm.

Haha, thanks for noting the similarity in our behaviour so far. I would dare say that it's really just my playstyle, at least from how I played in RL games. Conspiracy theorist in the making.

Also, you may take some time to learn how to engage in discussion when what you've mostly been doing is being the moderator for the past few years. It's kinda refreshing becoming a newb all over, wouldn't you say?

I don't know what the bolded means.

[AlexisTay3]

@ff: I am highly used to trying to outguess playstyles as a mod and also as a player, and so I'm trying to be a good townie by contributing to discussion directly rather than doing "summary posts" like i have been doing so far. Like what I'm doing now. I'm really trying to get used to the pace of online mafia, where responses aren't immediate.

[fferyllt]

This game is going to be verrrryy interesting.
Maybe I won't really have to put on my IC hat?
That said, the debating over theory is an interesting study of playstyles but probably not doing much to advance the gamestate. I mean, keep being awesome and all that, but does anyone have any tentative reads?

Fro is talking a lot about being scum, but I have no idea what I think that means.
fffffffff is giving me Townfeels so far.
Revenus is behaving himself. This is interesting.

I thought the meaning of my posts was pretty clear? Maybe that IC hat has fallen in front of your eyes.
What would you say town's job is?

Bit defensive, this.
Town's job is to play to their wincon, which is usually along the lines of "get rid of all threats".

Revenus is behaving himself. This is interesting.

Luckily for you, I'm in a good mood today.

Hahaha, sorry. The only game of yours I've seen involved you either self-hammering or being modkilled, I don't remember, but I recall the rest of the playerlist being mildly annoyed with you.

I liked Revenus' question to Fropone.

This is probably the best (most reliable) thing from your readslist, though I'm not sure I agree.

Carey's self-deprecating "don't expect too much of me" is probably the thing that sticks out mos questionablyt atm.

On this: I would agree with you if it were from a Newbie, but it's not the most surprising thing ever coming from Carey. It's definitely something to look back at though.

Alexis Tay, at your service. I'm new to the site and and I really love the game, so please teach me a thing or two! I'm really into the whole theory about mafia mostly because I used to mod RL games.

I like that you're confident coming into this. That's also something to look back at.

I've usually hit enter before the typos register.

This strengthens my Townfeels.

On Fropome's point above, I believe you're trying to say that lurking simply makes it easier for the scum to find someone to target, but I also don't get how it is a great place for them to hide.

I'm sure someone's probably answered this, but basically it means they don't have to say anything that could incriminate them, PLUS Town is sometimes wary of lynching lurkers because 1. they could be Town (or even PRs) 2. It can look scummy to try and drive a lynch on a lurker or 3. they just plain forget about the lurkers.

I'm interested to know where goodmorning got his read on you from.

Gut, mostly. I've played a few Newbie games, I tend to trust my gut for the first couple pages.

Also, I'm kinda keen to understand what purpose a vague hedgy no-read note on me might serve.

It reminds me to look at that in your ISO later to see how it bounces off the rest.

Besides that I'm not sure I found her post particularly helpful, considering she seemed to redirect the subject to "replacements" and softened the import for town in the same move.

Sorry you feel I redirected. This is my first time ICing, I'm trying to figure out where the hat should go exactly.
As for the replacement issue: you're mostly right, 90% of the time replacements hurt the Town. But there are replacements that hurt Scum (I'm only harping on this because I was Scum in a game like that really, but eh.)

My point is that town have no reason to lurk, even newbie town who are afraid they might make mistakes, newb town mistakes can still be sources of useful information for town.

QFT.

Sorry for quotewalling you, it should get less bad as we get into the game.

Easy, you pick the person who's only trying to appear to not lurk. Like someone who drops in and posts a brief message on page 3 while only having 1 other post with a random vote and nothing of substance.

VOTE: Deras

It's still pretty early on, but I like the thought process.

Stuff about replacements.

For me, I take a step back for a day or two when someone new replaces in, time permitting, then I read the whole slot again. Some people are very good at turning reads around whether they should be or not.

I'm a little suspicious of goodmorning for getting a townfeel for me as she puts it. My early posts last night were semi-intentionally flaky. My tentative reads she mostly disagreed had basis. As an external observer, to the extent I can get my head there, I'd not have a strong read on someone with my posts at the time she made that post.

1. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you're not on the same team.
2. I think they do have basis, but in some cases... I don't know what I was trying to say here, just don't get lulled into a false sense of security.
3. It took me a little while to feel comfortable with having gut reads. Everyone differs. At any rate, it's not like a pg2 Townfeel makes you confTown.

Eye, I find the pace of these games, especially the newbie games to be very slow at times. That said, I also don't like Deras' or Carey's level of engagement so far.

THEY CAN BE SO GLACIAL
As far as activity levels go: everyone has lives. I had it said to me in an early game here that the expectation is for players to be on probably once a day in Newbie games (though more is of course preferable).

I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.

Just post. Don't worry about looking scummy. If you do something that looks scummy, better to find out D1 than D3. Plus there is at least one other person on your team; even if you die, you won't necessarily lose.
Some people form reads later than others. That's cool too. If you notice anything you think is unusual from a player, that's usually a good place to start.

While we have their past behaviour to go on, I wouldn't rely too much on it or they might start using that as an excuse. Whatever their experience is, it's probably still more than most of us.

Good point. How much

can

you trust meta? I've no idea.

Since I can just go around this forum and check other people's games, I wonder if it's allowed/recommended that I should link you guys to my old forum so you can check some of my games?

You're welcome to if you like. It's not really necessary, though, and 5 years is quite a long time.

Whoops. Another quote wall. Oh well.

Your post seems to be addressed to Deras, like you're describing his experience as a mod. Has he moderated mafia games?

[fferyllt]

Oh geez. I was working on an isolated read of goodmorning's posts earlier. Forgot that I had a bunch clicked for multiquote. The post I was replying to was AlexisTay's post 111.

[AlexisTay3]

Sorry if my language confused you, I was just suggesting generally that when you're used to being the mod you just can't help but to try and think like one and simply observe the gameplay. Deras hasn't mentioned anything about him modding and I have no knowledge regarding that. But, I was referring to his acknowledgement that simply saying that I haven't participated "overly" isn't something I believe he should get alarmed about for the reason stated vis a vis my past RL modding.

In short, I just want to start talking to people, but I fall to the habit of observing and coming up with conspiracy theories.

[fferyllt]

Ah. Ok Interesting. I usually moderate somewhere between 6 and 18 games a year. The experience of watching games from the outside definitely brings something different to the table in terms of analysis. I guess I have played often enough that my detachment as a moderator hasn't become a part of my game as a player.

[Revenus]

Oh my god what the hell happened in 112.


ffeyrllt; so you iso'd goodmorning again; anything new to say?

[CareyHammer]

ok, I'm back. let me catch up. I do care about this game, just finished another elsewhere, so this one has my attention now. Was just trying to say "hi, i'm here" not lurking, just posting no content.

What's the difference between lurking and posting no content? In terms of usefulness to town, there isn't any - and the latter is much more likely to be scum in my experience. Plus, it's over 7.5 hours later, and you've given us nothing. I'm not liking it. I'm not going to bother changing my vote since it's still early and I already have my vote in a very good place, but without Deras you'd definitely have my vote for this. Both of you need to start contributing real discussion.

Hey, Happy Easter Sunday to you too!

[CareyHammer]

It was a Daylight savings time thing. I apologize for stating that 7.5 hours had passed, when only 6.5 had. But now 10 hours have past without anything from Carey, and Deras has at least contributed something slightly worthwhile.

VOTE: CareyHammer

For implying that not posting and posting worthless fluff were any different, for claiming he was going to start caring about this game but not contributing for as it stands now almost half a day, and of course not saying anything worthwhile.

I'd like to here more from Mac as well, but I don't really have much reason to believe he's scum like with Carey.

Give me an effin' break!

VOTE: Eye Urn/vote]

[CareyHammer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eye Urn


Yeah, AFK for the next 48 hours.

[AlexisTay3]

It was a Daylight savings time thing. I apologize for stating that 7.5 hours had passed, when only 6.5 had. But now 10 hours have past without anything from Carey, and Deras has at least contributed something slightly worthwhile.

VOTE: CareyHammer

For implying that not posting and posting worthless fluff were any different, for claiming he was going to start caring about this game but not contributing for as it stands now almost half a day, and of course not saying anything worthwhile.

I'd like to here more from Mac as well, but I don't really have much reason to believe he's scum like with Carey.

Give me an effin' break!

VOTE: Eye Urn/vote]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eye Urn


Yeah, AFK for the next 48 hours.

We will if you at least give us something useful. Coming up with reasons to afk right off the bat and blaming others for pressuring you is bad play. Help us out, we're all trying to scum hunt/town hunt.

[CareyHammer]

Nice avatar. Why do dudes put pretty girls in their avatar pic?

[AlexisTay3]

Well, I would suppose it's because they think they're nice to look at. Thanks for the compliment anyway.

[AlexisTay3]

@ffery: Well, too much modding and too little playing can have its effect, so yeah.

[Revenus]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eye Urn


Yeah, AFK for the next 48 hours.

Terrible post. You better explain why you made this vote.

In fact, I expect an absolutely stunning post from you when you return, otherwise I'm switching my vote to you because there is 0 excuse for your behavior so far.