Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

From both of you, I want to hear why you think that post is flail. I personally find it to be one of my less flaily posts ever.

Let's have a look.

It's page 4. If you're expecting a quotewall's worth of case, you're gonna have a bad time. Usually there's not enough substance for that sort of thing til page 7 or 8 at the earliest.

^^ comes off defensive and is interesting in light of your demands for others to explain themselves.

I like I's train of thought, the case is a bit early in my opinion but Deras is one that I might have voted as a pressure-type vote to see if we could get him into the game a bit more quickly.

Here's your post where you complemented Eye's thought process.

In post 53, Eye Urn wrote

:Easy, you pick the person who's only trying to appear to not lurk. Like someone who drops in and posts a brief message on page 3 while only having 1 other post with a random vote and nothing of substance.

VOTE: Deras

It's still pretty early on, but I like the thought process.

I said this looked like you were encouraging the bandwagon without joining it, ie keeping your own hands clean. What you've said doesn't dispute that characterization.

I unvoted Carey because even though it is a decent vote theory-wise, it's useless to pressure someone who's not going to see that he's being pressured.
I voted Fropome as explained in post 87.

The comment about Carey makes no sense. If he reads thread he'll see the pressure. And in fact he's already reacted to the pressure.

Are you implying that newbs can't be Mafia? I'm going after Scum.

Here you throw out a passive-aggressive looking counter. I don't like to use the word "mischaracterize in mafia because it gets overused. But, nowhere have I implied that newbs can't be Mafia.

So yeah, I'm sticking with flail - a bunch of words that don't clarify your position and that in part look like an attempt to pin a position on me (newbs can't be scum) that I haven't espoused.

[goodmorning]

It's page 4. If you're expecting a quotewall's worth of case, you're gonna have a bad time. Usually there's not enough substance for that sort of thing til page 7 or 8 at the earliest.

^^ comes off defensive and is interesting in light of your demands for others to explain themselves.

Explanation, yes. Lots of explanation, no.

I like I's train of thought, the case is a bit early in my opinion but Deras is one that I might have voted as a pressure-type vote to see if we could get him into the game a bit more quickly.

Here's your post where you complemented Eye's thought process.

It's a good connection to make, watching for active lurking is a good start to scumhunting.

In post 53, Eye Urn wrote

:Easy, you pick the person who's only trying to appear to not lurk. Like someone who drops in and posts a brief message on page 3 while only having 1 other post with a random vote and nothing of substance.

VOTE: Deras

It's still pretty early on, but I like the thought process.

I said this looked like you were encouraging the bandwagon without joining it, ie keeping your own hands clean. What you've said doesn't dispute that characterization.

No. The thought process is a good one (i.e., looking for active lurkers). That said, at the time it was a bit too soon to be looking for them. I don't intend encouragement of the bandwagon on Deras as a good "active lurking" bandwagon, because I wouldn't say that it is. I would say that it is a good "pressure" bandwagon.
Is this finally clear?

I unvoted Carey because even though it is a decent vote theory-wise, it's useless to pressure someone who's not going to see that he's being pressured.
I voted Fropome as explained in post 87.

The comment about Carey makes no sense. If he reads thread he'll see the pressure. And in fact he's already reacted to the pressure.

At any rate I have a slight Townread on him now so the point is moot. But I would dispute that he was reading the thread in any seriousness.

Are you implying that newbs can't be Mafia? I'm going after Scum.

Here you throw out a passive-aggressive looking counter. I don't like to use the word "mischaracterize in mafia because it gets overused. But, nowhere have I implied that newbs can't be Mafia.

You accused me of going after "easy newb targets". This does indeed imply that you are not thinking of them as Scum.
I am, I will repeat, going after Scum.
I'm not going to give people a pass just because they're new.
(Meanwhile, you were going after Carey, an obvious sitting duck.)

So yeah, I'm sticking with flail - a bunch of words that don't clarify your position and that in part look like an attempt to pin a position on me (newbs can't be scum) that I haven't espoused.

If my position isn't clear by now you haven't been reading my posts.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, I'll sigbet anyone, the Scum are in {AT3, fff, Fro, Deras}.

Now off to pull out all the questions Fro has left unanswered.

Also to clarify my previous post: "This does indeed imply that you are not thinking of them as Scum." is interesting, as it's something I should have thought about earlier.

[fferyllt]

It's page 4. If you're expecting a quotewall's worth of case, you're gonna have a bad time. Usually there's not enough substance for that sort of thing til page 7 or 8 at the earliest.

^^ comes off defensive and is interesting in light of your demands for others to explain themselves.

Explanation, yes. Lots of explanation, no.

I like I's train of thought, the case is a bit early in my opinion but Deras is one that I might have voted as a pressure-type vote to see if we could get him into the game a bit more quickly.

Here's your post where you complemented Eye's thought process.

It's a good connection to make, watching for active lurking is a good start to scumhunting.

In post 53, Eye Urn wrote

:Easy, you pick the person who's only trying to appear to not lurk. Like someone who drops in and posts a brief message on page 3 while only having 1 other post with a random vote and nothing of substance.

VOTE: Deras

It's still pretty early on, but I like the thought process.

I said this looked like you were encouraging the bandwagon without joining it, ie keeping your own hands clean. What you've said doesn't dispute that characterization.

No. The thought process is a good one (i.e., looking for active lurkers). That said, at the time it was a bit too soon to be looking for them. I don't intend encouragement of the bandwagon on Deras as a good "active lurking" bandwagon, because I wouldn't say that it is. I would say that it is a good "pressure" bandwagon.
Is this finally clear?

I unvoted Carey because even though it is a decent vote theory-wise, it's useless to pressure someone who's not going to see that he's being pressured.
I voted Fropome as explained in post 87.

The comment about Carey makes no sense. If he reads thread he'll see the pressure. And in fact he's already reacted to the pressure.

At any rate I have a slight Townread on him now so the point is moot. But I would dispute that he was reading the thread in any seriousness.

Are you implying that newbs can't be Mafia? I'm going after Scum.

Here you throw out a passive-aggressive looking counter. I don't like to use the word "mischaracterize in mafia because it gets overused. But, nowhere have I implied that newbs can't be Mafia.

You accused me of going after "easy newb targets". This does indeed imply that you are not thinking of them as Scum.
I am, I will repeat, going after Scum.
I'm not going to give people a pass just because they're new.
(Meanwhile, you were going after Carey, an obvious sitting duck.)

So yeah, I'm sticking with flail - a bunch of words that don't clarify your position and that in part look like an attempt to pin a position on me (newbs can't be scum) that I haven't espoused.

If my position isn't clear by now you haven't been reading my posts.

I'll grant that you have explained your position a little better since post 90. In asking me to explain why it looks like flail, your later posts are irrelevant to my impression of this post.

[fferyllt]

Yeah, I'll sigbet anyone, the Scum are in {AT3, fff, Fro, Deras}.

Now off to pull out all the questions Fro has left unanswered.

Also to clarify my previous post: "This does indeed imply that you are not thinking of them as Scum." is interesting, as it's something I should have thought about earlier.

I have a town read on Fropome as of last night. I still need to comb carefully through his posts made today, along with Alexis' posts. Something is bothering me there.

Deras is way down in my unsure pile, very near the scum line. His last couple of posts have moved him up a bit. If he keeps it up, he'll stay there until I have more data to analyze.

[goodmorning]

oh god i'm an idiot

Vote: ffffffffffffff

I'll make the case when I'm done looking for questions ugh I hate myself

P-EDIT: The earlier ones are irrelevant too technicallyyyyyyy

[fferyllt]

lol

[goodmorning]

Alright. Fro:
1. What are the scumtells you think you saw in my post 33? (I know I didn't ask you this, but at least one other player did, and it involves me, so close enough.)
2. Why do you think my 90 looks flaily?
3. Explain what about 35 wasn't an overreaction.
4. Do you agree with ffffff's reasoning (125) in light of my responses (137)?
AND SOME NEW ONES WHILE YOU'RE AT IT
5. Where are you seeing defensiveness?
6. Explain what about 35 wasn't an overreaction and actually make sense instead of trying to spout some garbled bullshit about sarcasm.

Also here's what really strikes me wrong on Fro: he asks a question or makes an accusation, I respond, then he never mentions it again.

ONWARDS TO CASE LAND

[fferyllt]

AlexisTay

104

This bothers me. It bothered me a bit that Eye jumped into the fray trying to clear up a possible misunderstanding between GM and Fropome. In general, I think it's better for players to sort stuff out on their own.

Alexis calling this out as a good thing is kinda weird.

"conspiracy theory" keeps coming up in his posts. He's characterizing it as a marker of his game. I'm not sure the connections he's drawing make sense. 105 114

133Some originality in analysis of Fropome. Most of the rest looks like rework.

151 self-deprecation, expectation setting/lowering?

155Immediate backdown when GM pushes back. "reckless to put it forth so hard".

I push back at this and his response is 158 "I'm not worried about going after someone "so hard". I'm just really thrown off by GM's hostility."

This feels off.

[goodmorning]

Taking a break from case making to point out that I found his backing down there to have a townish feel. Scum would (IMO) be more likely to step up to bat. Weakness is an inherently Town characteristic, it comes from a place of being unsure.

I don't know if that makes sense, my brain's kind of melted from actually making a case with glee rather than revulsion.

[goodmorning]

EBWODP: Backing down there (where I pushed) to have a townish feel.

[fferyllt]

The main thing that is bothering me about Fropome is his apparent lack of paranoia about me.

Also his followyness wrt my analysis of GM. Though, due to timing I may not be leaving much unturned ground. Also, I was misremembering, thinking there were more "^^This" type posts than there actually were, and he does appear to have some analysis of his own that isn't a reprocessing of what other people have said.

There are a couple of things I need to mull over here, I think

[fferyllt]

Taking a break from case making to point out that I found his backing down there to have a townish feel. Scum would (IMO) be more likely to step up to bat. Weakness is an inherently Town characteristic, it comes from a place of being unsure.

I don't know if that makes sense, my brain's kind of melted from actually making a case with glee rather than revulsion.

That's interesting.

I am suspicious of too easy of a back-down. Most of my major episodes of head-butting have been with players who turned out to be town.

[Mac]

Time for a bit of a recap from my PoV. But first, my apologies for lack of activity (I like to call it 'lacktivity') lately because I've just been pushed down with work at the moment. I should've went V/LA in hindsight, but all I have to do is work tomorrow then I'm on holiday pretty much.

Reading as I go then:

Spoiler: wall

Hello everyone!

I may be SE, but I suck at mafia, so don't expect too much from me.

Reading back, this seems sooooo anti-town. I seem to keep coming back to Carey at the moment but I just can't help but feel this is laying the foundations for lurking as scum. Or poor 'town' play later, and justifying it with "look, I said I suck!" Maybe I'm just being paranoid. But he hasn't helped with his lack of presence in the thread so far (Pot. Kettle. Black. I know. I'm working on it.)

I thought the meaning of my posts was pretty clear? Maybe that IC hat has fallen in front of your eyes.
What would you say town's job is?

This is a strangely aggressive post. I don't particularly like it much, considering GM said she didn't know what his previous posts meant for her.

I've usually hit enter before the typos register.

This strengthens my Townfeels.

What? This is a poor reason to strengthen your town feeling in my opinion, GM. I know it's gut, and I understand why you think that - but I don't think you should use this as a reason to class fferyl as town just yet. Or let it strengthen your town feel. Because that sorta line can just as easily be slipped in by scum as it could be by town.

Aaah At3 seems to be sorta on the same track as me in 48. The way I see it is you were to scumslip hard later on, you can always point back and point out how you already said you had a new keyboard. Just check your posts, man. If you slip later on because of this keyboard and we mislynch you (assuming you are town here and making a newb slip) it obviously won't be beneficial to us (yeah, Captain Obvious, I know.)

I haven't posted more because I'm not actually sure what kind of behaviour is scummy or not on the first day, specially with all the random stuff that flies around, and I haven't gotten any reads on anyone.

Alarm bells going off now. Justifying your active lurking with "I don't know what kindof behaviour is scummy" is worrying, mainly because if you were town, you wouldn't particularly care if you were scummy because you'd know you were town. Obviously you wouldn't want to be mislynched but you get my point. There are 56 posts before this and you felt you couldn't get involved in some sort of replying because you didn't know if it was scummy? Being over-cautious has made m feel very uneasy with you.

Really? This is a really bad post. It feels like you're fishing for other people to call Fropome scum, and at the same time, you're saying "well, I haven't found anything really scummy".

If you haven't found any scum tells this early, why mention the overreaction? Is it scummy? Or did you just mention it for kicks?

This is a good point.

Voting for me just because I point out something that sounds weird to me seems like a poor excuse to get a bandwagon going in my opinion.

Vote:Revenus

Ironically, the reason you say Rev is voting you is the

exact

reason you voted him back. I'm not getting particularly good reads from Deras at the moment.

@Revenus: I pointed things out and didn't call them alignment-indicative. Why jump on Deras and not on me?

Another good point, although should Deras flip scum in the future, it's worth noting this down as soft defending Deras.

#68 is another cracking post. Eye Urn looks not only competent but very pro-town for pushing Deras for his scummy behaviour.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you're not on the same team.

Also. Case or it didn't happen, I don't want you guys to get in the habit of (and keep) voting without any reasoning at all.

You may not want to share ALL your reasoning right now (there are arguments about how it may help Scum, though I personally am for complete transparency at the moment), but at least one reason.

My case is mostly your lack of case for voting Fropome, while indicating you liked Eye's deras case/vote.

You're going after low-haning newb fruit.

Not sure about this, GM feels that a Fropome vote is better than a Deras. That doesn't mean she can only focus on Fropome and not Deras, you know.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eye Urn


Yeah, AFK for the next 48 hours.

Another post from Carey that made me go "what the hell" - again, what is this?

Nice avatar. Why do dudes put pretty girls in their avatar pic?

Followed by this, completely ignoring the point of AT3's post which was "contribute more" pretty much.

Carey - no content. excuses. OMGUS vote on Eye. He'd be hard pressed to look worse. It's like he's trying to look so bad that players will think "he can't possibly be scum. No scum player would do that - it's too obviously scummy".

Yep, liking this part of your post. Playing VI is sometimes employed by scum: this could be Carey's game plan. Although, that said, I think VI is sometimes part of his townstyle too.

I sense hostility. I admit, it was reckless of me to put it forth so hard.

Putting your ideas forth hard is pro-town. provoking reactions you can evaluate is protown.

This post of yours looks scummy to me. You shouldn't be worried about going after someone "so hard" if you are town.

Very true. Mentioned it above with Deras. Puts AT3 back to a null read for me.

Uhhh that took longer than expected. This game is really fun though so far. Hope these make sense. and I imagine I've been ninja'd about 3 pages or so by now.

I'd like to see GM's case on fferyllt too.

[goodmorning]

@fff: His back-down on you is a bit suspicious because he kind of used it as a redirect. His back down on me looks pretty innocent, though the lack of response to my six points was disappointing.

And yes, many Town step it up too.

@Mac: Couple things I want to point out real quick before I go back to casebuilding:
1. Soft defending is usually Town IMO.
2. Actually there is no 2, you're Town and I'm glad. The case is coming. You may want to meta fffff tomorrow, she's got this quote on her wiki ("fferyllt - Nothing has sparked for me in a negative way at all. Either super town, or exceptionally good at flying under the radar." - Chenoan, Bugenhagen's Bungalow) and I don't doubt its veracity.

[fferyllt]

You should iso my posts in that game GM. I will never play another scum game at MS in that vein. I slammed the door to acting like a diffident and inexperienced player the instant that game ended.

[goodmorning]

I did. Then I read the whole thing. (Then I looked at polygamist too.)
The "diffident and inexperienced" is gone this game, yes. What lies behind that, however...

Everyone has a distinct scumgame behind all the trappings. Some are better at hiding it than others. I know I'm in gut territory here, but there's just a certain way you word things when you're Scum that's different than when you're Town.

When I compare your scumgame to your towngame and hold them both up to this game, I know which one this is more like.

[fferyllt]

Interesting.

From my perspective, this is the first game at MS where I've really felt like I'm playing "my" town game. The lovers game had an odd design and was nightless. I was feeling my way trying to figure out what

was

protown in that game.

The proof is in the pudding. Once I flip that at least will be established.

[fferyllt]

People expounding on my towniness early in a game raises my hackles, though. I'd rather have some genuine suspicion and paranoia than a ton of "town reads". Because there are scum somewhere among the folks who give me town reads usually.

The lovers game gave me fits. Though in that game the only person who consistently called me suspicious throughout the game was scum.

Different site. Different meta.

[goodmorning]

Curiouser and curiouser (and interesting).

[goodmorning]

@fffffff: Just meta'd. Very interesting and not at all inconsistent with your play here.

Spoiler: THE CASE

10: The jokey "So, are you Scum?" Maybe I'm pulling confirmation bias here, but it just strikes me wrong.
37: This list of her tentative light Townreads mostly consists of behaviours that can be displayed by either side, several of which she displayed as Scum in that other Newbie game.
39: This post initially gave me slight (though granted, playstyle-based) Townfeels. Posting without reading is not something Scum often do. She has before. (Also, in one of my responses, I expressed the opinion that this was alignment-indicative (which I don't feel now). She ignored this.)
46: I might be imagining a bit of tiptoeing. I might not.
50: Same as 39.
54: It's not sheeping really but that's the closest word I can think of.
56: Suddenly we're suspicious where we weren't before with no reasons to feel that way that we didn't have the last couple of times we posted.
69: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with OMGUS.
82: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with the "lurker=Scum" mentality. (In case someone doesn't know why this is a scumtell: it is much easier to accuse someone with no content than to try to find fake scumtells in the content of active townies.)
85: Votes me, no appended reason.
88: "Lack of case on Fro" when the post before was my case on Fro. "indicating you liked Eye's case/vote" when I stated that I liked his thought process. "going after low-hanging newb fruit" when the object of the game is to go after Scum, no matter their join date. "Going after low-hanging newb fruit" also implies that she

knows

they are not Scum.
92: Compare this with her later feelings, particularly those pertaining to the Fe/Deras thing. Even with no new developments in the situation she gets much harder on this point each time she revisits it.
96: Unmitigated WIFOM. Also ignores the point of my "interesting" read of it even though it's been rehashed to death by that point.
125: Assumes 39 is alignment neutral (which it is, but at the time wasn't 100%). Assumes I was calling her tentative reads not alignment indicative when I said "they are indeed usually Town, but good Scum can fake it." Ignores 2/3 of the points I made in explanation. Harder on the issues from 92. Accuses me of OMGUS, despite the fact that my suspicions of Fro predate his suspicions of me (unless you think he was suspicious of me in 35, which is questionable).
126: Made me sad. Also fails to provide reasoning as to why she thinks it is flails (yes, she's done it since, I'm getting there, she should have done it here).
129: Comes after several people have given reads, and doesn't really cover much new ground (if any). In one sentence accuses me of going after easy targets while staying off of the... easy... targets? SEEMS LEGIT.
Seriously, ask yourself: Who are the easiest targets in this game? Carey and Deras, right? Who's been going after them again? JUST SAYING. JUST. SAYING.
132: Who goes easy on someone acting scummy? SCUM
135: Gave me an "interesting." All the "Oh no, I don't know if I'll still be alive, oh darn" is just trying a little too hard. Plus it's basically saying "I'm just gonna go after one scumread at a time." Why? Can't come up with enough fakery for two?
145: Fluff.
157: This is actually something of a Towntell. Poor lonely thing.
175: Rather than just saying "I found it defensive and didn't like the Fe/Deras thing or your lack of vote on Carey," took the game back almost 100 posts and recycled arguments that had been responded to.
177: This is one of my posts. I am chronicling it here as the "OH SHIT" moment that made me do a complete 180.
179: Suddenly considering other suspects, so as to open up other potential mislynches.
181: This is classic nervous Scum trying to masquerade as relaxed and groovy Town.
183: Suddenly all the players have little things that "bother" her. ALL OF THEM (except Rev, I suppose) (interesting) (and Mac, but I don't know if he really counts yet)
Let's have a look:
me - lots of things.
Fro - lack of paranoia(!) and similar reads to others (HALF THE PLAYERLIST HAS THE SAME GODDAMNED LIST)
Fe- stepping in on the 33/35 thing
AT3 - approval of Fe stepping in and also his backing down
Carey - lurking and uselessness
Deras - lurking and absorbing tips on gameplay which sets his bar higher for her
Mac - nothing, he's posted all of four times
Rev - nothing (interestinggggg)

I await some response eagerly, though I want to urge that we can suspect each other and still be nice. It's not a scumtell to back off of something if it's only frustrating you and not actually accomplishing anything.

@Everyone else: Thoughts?

@Fe: Noticed your last real read of me was around a hundred posts ago. What is it now?

@Deras: There's probably enough content in the game now for you to post lots of substance. Please do.

@Carey: If this game is going to frustrate you, don't play it. But if you're not going to play it, be replaced. Replacement SE slots go hella fast.

[goodmorning]

And when I say "just meta'd" I mean that it took me like 2 hours to do this, taking frequent breaks. Casemaking is my least favourite part of this game.

[fferyllt]

Jesus christ. Wondering if I should try to tackle that in one post or in several.

On a quick scan it looks like you missed my comments about Rev. I know I made some when I posted my overall reads. He's in my town pile but it's not a secure place there.

Nobody gets a secure place on day 1.

[Mac]

I'm waaaay too tired to comprehend that case. Will have a reread tomorrow/Tuesday have preseny my thoughts.

[fferyllt]

I've removed the spoilers here.

Actually, I thought we weren't supposed to use spoilers in this game.

@fffffff: Just meta'd. Very interesting and not at all inconsistent with your play here.

10: The jokey "So, are you Scum?" Maybe I'm pulling confirmation bias here, but it just strikes me wrong.

This post right here is why my eyelid twitched when you said you had a townfeel. My early posts were jokey. No questiion. Fropome and I know each other from elsewhere, btw. These posts were hellos/light sparring to see how he reacted and I imagine his to me were the same. I was happy with the results at the time.

37: This list of her tentative light Townreads mostly consists of behaviours that can be displayed by either side, several of which she displayed as Scum in that other Newbie game.

Yep. hence tentative.

39: This post initially gave me slight (though granted, playstyle-based) Townfeels. Posting without reading is not something Scum often do. She has before. (Also, in one of my responses, I expressed the opinion that this was alignment-indicative (which I don't feel now). She ignored this.)

claiming to get a townfeel off that post imo is weird and possibly scummy. Like looking for reasons to say "town" buddying up scummy. I thought I said that it is NOT alignment indicative. Will get back to this later.

46: I might be imagining a bit of tiptoeing. I might not.

caginess for sure. You'd jangled my scumdar by then. Oh and look...cautious comment about Revenus.

50: Same as 39.

Another "townfeel" on a null post? And you wonder why I've gotten a scum vibe here?

54: It's not sheeping really but that's the closest word I can think of.

So, getting a town feel off a post is sheeping? Is that what you'd been doing?

56: Suddenly we're suspicious where we weren't before with no reasons to feel that way that we didn't have the last couple of times we posted.

I have no idea what this means. At that point in the thread, I had enough off notes to wonder if it was a pattern and I put out my suspicion to see how you reacted.

69: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with OMGUS

.

The beginning of what appears to be an outbreak of OMGUS votes.

82: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with the "lurker=Scum" mentality. (In case someone doesn't know why this is a scumtell: it is much easier to accuse someone with no content than to try to find fake scumtells in the content of active townies.)

Interesting. I don't like lurking but I don't automatically default to "lurker = scum". I've been pretty patient with Mac IIRC. Carey's behavior IMO goes beyond ordinary lurking.

85: Votes me, no appended reason.

I think it was pretty clear what drew my vote at that point.

88: "Lack of case on Fro" when the post before was my case on Fro. "indicating you liked Eye's case/vote" when I stated that I liked his thought process. "going after low-hanging newb fruit" when the object of the game is to go after Scum, no matter their join date. "Going after low-hanging newb fruit" also implies that she

knows

they are not Scum.

It implies no such thing. n00bs are hard to read

because

they tend to react in scummy ways no matter what their alignment. I take my time in assessing n00bs for that reason.

92: Compare this with her later feelings, particularly those pertaining to the Fe/Deras thing. Even with no new developments in the situation she gets much harder on this point each time she revisits it.

I had a solid town read on Fropome at that point. At the moment the only thing shaking that is a certain lack of paranoia about me.

[

post=#4828816]96[/post]: Unmitigated WIFOM. Also ignores the point of my "interesting" read of it even though it's been rehashed to death by that point.

You may have a point here. It would be a first in my experience but it's not completely out of the question that a n00b scum would make a big deal about an earlier successful scum game.

125: Assumes 39 is alignment neutral (which it is, but at the time wasn't 100%). Assumes I was calling her tentative reads not alignment indicative when I said "they are indeed usually Town, but good Scum can fake it." Ignores 2/3 of the points I made in explanation. Harder on the issues from 92. Accuses me of OMGUS, despite the fact that my suspicions of Fro predate his suspicions of me (unless you think he was suspicious of me in 35, which is questionable).

I thought he was suspicious of you in 35. As for the rest...there's nothing to refute there IMO.

126: Made me sad. Also fails to provide reasoning as to why she thinks it is flails (yes, she's done it since, I'm getting there, she should have done it here).

I think this is a style thing. I make short posts to get reactions. WoTs come after I have the reactions. I'm not likely to change this style of play unless I find that it doesn't get results. So far, it's gotten results. I think a look back at my lovers game will show the same pattern of push-analyzie-push-analyze.

129: Comes after several people have given reads, and doesn't really cover much new ground (if any). In one sentence accuses me of going after easy targets while staying off of the... easy... targets? SEEMS LEGIT

.I think you'll find that I've telegraphed most of those reads in earlier posts. IIRC the only one where I had a lot of recent posts to think about was Alexis'. And yes, I've made the point more than once that it looked like you were ENCOURAGING a bandwagon while staying off it yourself. TBH, I think you can find that I've done something similar, though, and that would be a more legitimate argument - I'm not unhappy with votes on Carey, though I've chosen to focus on you.

Seriously, ask yourself: Who are the easiest targets in this game? Carey and Deras, right? Who's been going after them again? JUST SAYING. JUST. SAYING

.

Not sure what your point is here.

132: Who goes easy on someone acting scummy? SCUM

Who initially goes easy on someone acting n00b? Someone who has mislynched a lot of n00bs. n00bs get better with game experience and pointers. That's what we're all here playing for, right? If helping n00bs improve isn't the reason why we're playing this game, then I'm playing the wrong game.

135: Gave me an "interesting." All the "Oh no, I don't know if I'll still be alive, oh darn" is just trying a little too hard. Plus it's basically saying "I'm just gonna go after one scumread at a time." Why? Can't come up with enough fakery for two?

Bit of inconsistency here. Make up your mind. Am I going after too few players or too many?

145: Fluff.

Not fluff. I'd called your vote-post a thinly veiled omgus without linking to it IIRC. That was to document my earlier comment.

157: This is actually something of a Towntell. Poor lonely thing.

This comment right here, this is where the level of condescension dripping from your posts goes critical mass. I'm going to try to take the rest of your post seriously, but it's not going to be easy.

175: Rather than just saying "I found it defensive and didn't like the Fe/Deras thing or your lack of vote on Carey," took the game back almost 100 posts and recycled arguments that had been responded to.

You need to decide whether you want short and sweet or detailed and thorough.

177: This is one of my posts. I am chronicling it here as the "OH SHIT" moment that made me do a complete 180.

How nice.

179: Suddenly considering other suspects, so as to open up other potential mislynches.

Lots of posts by other players happened while we barked at each other. I got around to them. Once again, make up your mind. Am I scummy for focusing only on you? Or am I scummy for widening my focus? Short answer, I'm not scummy. I'm scumhunting.

181: This is classic nervous Scum trying to masquerade as relaxed and groovy Town.

Get me lynched and we'll find out. Town can have a town bandwagon to analyze along with a whole bunch of reads from a confirmed town player.

183: Suddenly all the players have little things that "bother" her. ALL OF THEM (except Rev, I suppose) (interesting) (and Mac, but I don't know if he really counts yet)

Go back and read my list of reads. There was stuff that bothered me about every player, including my town reads in that list. Except possibly Fropome. I expected him to come back to the thread and get the heebies about my going after his nemesis. he didn't.

Let's have a look:
me - lots of things.
Fro - lack of paranoia(!) and similar reads to others (HALF THE PLAYERLIST HAS THE SAME GODDAMNED LIST)
Fe- stepping in on the 33/35 thing
AT3 - approval of Fe stepping in and also his backing down
Carey - lurking and uselessness
Deras - lurking and absorbing tips on gameplay which sets his bar higher for her
Mac - nothing, he's posted all of four times
Rev - nothing (interestinggggg)[/spoiler]

Who's Fe again? And did you find my niggles about Rev? Or did you not look?

I await some response eagerly, though I want to urge that we can suspect each other and still be nice. It's not a scumtell to back off of something if it's only frustrating you and not actually accomplishing anything.

Ditto. If I come out of this with a town read on you I'll consider it a positive. It's going to take some doing, though, given where I am at right now.

deleted the stuff addressed to other players beyond this point.