Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[Eye Urn]

Still reading, responding to say Fe = chemical symbol for Iron = Eye Urn.

[fferyllt]

Ah. Thanks.

[goodmorning]

On a quick scan it looks like you missed my comments about Rev. I know I made some when I posted my overall reads. He's in my town pile but it's not a secure place there.

By comment I meant "recent negative comment"

Sorry for the confusion.

[fferyllt]

I rechecked the rules on page 1. looks like spoilers are ok in this game. They were forbidden in my first newbie game.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, it depends on the mod. Tracey's cool with them probably because she walls often. chk is a pretty brief player, so I'm guessing he doesn't see the need or else they pissed him off for some reason.

I'll go through the rebuttal to my case on you probably tomorrow, I'm kinda tired and there's quite a bit that I saw to respond to.
I can do this one off the top of my head: I found 39 and 50 slightly Town-indicative until I meta'd you, and when I said "I think it is alignment indicative" I kind of expected a Town!you to go "really? How so?" but you didn't. At the time I felt you were Town so I kind of shrugged it off, but it makes more sense from a Scum alignment.

[goodmorning]

EBWODP: "until I meta'd you and discovered they were pure playstyle"

[fferyllt]

Yeah, it depends on the mod. Tracey's cool with them probably because she walls often. chk is a pretty brief player, so I'm guessing he doesn't see the need or else they pissed him off for some reason.

I'll go through the rebuttal to my case on you probably tomorrow, I'm kinda tired and there's quite a bit that I saw to respond to.
I can do this one off the top of my head: I found 39 and 50 slightly Town-indicative until I meta'd you, and when I said "I think it is alignment indicative" I kind of expected a Town!you to go "really? How so?" but you didn't. At the time I felt you were Town so I kind of shrugged it off, but it makes more sense from a Scum alignment.

Answers aren't enough. I need reactions.

[goodmorning]

Reactions...? I don't think I understand.

[fferyllt]

"How so?" gets an answer.

"That pings", "makes me uneasy", etc. gets a reaction.

[goodmorning]

What I'm saying is that I expected you to react to my saying that I thought it was alignment indicative, but you didn't even bring it up (that I said it was alignment indicative).

And paring down quotes is par for the course, even suggested in this forum (just for future reference. I know some people have been quoting my quotewalls and it's totally cool if you break them down and take out the bits you're not responding to/interested in). I keep forgetting to say that, so now I've said it.

[Eye Urn]

Still trying to sort through GM's argument. I agree with like 1/4 of it, but some of it is completely subjective, some is totally irrelevant, some is pointless bickering about people not fully restating their arguments every single time they post, and some of it is arguments that I don't agree with. A few specifics of blatant offenders:

54: It's not sheeping really but that's the closest word I can think of.
snip
69: The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with OMGUS.
snip
183: Suddenly all the players have little things that "bother" her. ALL OF THEM

So what?

"Going after low-hanging newb fruit" also implies that she knows they are not Scum.

How so? Because you say so?

157: This is actually something of a Towntell. Poor lonely thing.
snip
177: This is one of my posts. I am chronicling it here as the "OH SHIT" moment that made me do a complete 180.

You've added two things that are completely irrelevant to your argument. Why?

179: Suddenly considering other suspects, so as to open up other potential mislynches.

Why did you append the reasoning you did to this? Are we not allowed to find both scum at the same time? Must we tunnel in on one of them and not give up? What if we change our mind? What if we don't get enough support? There's more than one scum, we should be free to look for them.

I see serious logical errors and misrepresentation throughout. Such things could be signs of scummy behavior, but I'm actually tallying most of it to confirmation bias. There was one thing that set GM off, and now she can't back away from the conclusion she reached almost subconsciously. That's just how our brains work.

I find it super-odd that she explicitly asked me for a read of herself. Usually you ask people for reads of others, as reads for yourself don't really help you find scum. Reads for yourself would help scum evaluate how good of a job they are doing so far and whether they need to change tactics. That request leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, and I am now leaning very heavily towards GM being scum. Not that I'm letting Deras or especially Carey off the hook but this is the first active, non-pseudo-lurking scum move I've seen.

Consider my vote to be available for GM.

[Eye Urn]

Probably should have reworded the paragraph starting with "I see serious" after the vibe I picked up with that read request. I had thought that way when I wrote what I did, but I hadn't really considered the effect of that read request in the way I do now until I was typing the response.

[Eye Urn]

Yeah, it depends on the mod. Tracey's cool with them probably because she walls often. chk is a pretty brief player, so I'm guessing he doesn't see the need or else they pissed him off for some reason.

I'll go through the rebuttal to my case on you probably tomorrow, I'm kinda tired and there's quite a bit that I saw to respond to.
I can do this one off the top of my head: I found 39 and 50 slightly Town-indicative until I meta'd you, and when I said "I think it is alignment indicative" I kind of expected a Town!you to go "really? How so?" but you didn't. At the time I felt you were Town so I kind of shrugged it off, but it makes more sense from a Scum alignment.

Answers aren't enough. I need reactions.

I have to echo GM's "huh?" at this.

[Eye Urn]

(I have a vague suspicion carey is playing to get out of newbie hell early, by getting lynched day 1 for playing useless as he did in his previous game, and now this. I think it's a downside of the site's newb restriction that it creates this kind of incentive to get into the bigger games by playing like a dick in newbville to get lynched early. Although, I've noticed blacklisting is not uncommon here, which I like).

If there is some experience requirements for other games, I would hope to hell that the mods would actually look at the games people they were unfamiliar with played and not just see "Oh, they finished 5 games, I'll take them." I suppose some mods are just lazy and think it's important enough to want to appear to be giving people a newbie-free game, but that's not in general the vibe I've gotten here.

[Eye Urn]

Yeah, I'll sigbet anyone, the Scum are in {AT3, fff, Fro, Deras}.

What sort of terms are involved in such a bet?

[fferyllt]

What I'm saying is that I expected you to react to my saying that I thought it was alignment indicative, but you didn't even bring it up (that I said it was alignment indicative).

And paring down quotes is par for the course, even suggested in this forum (just for future reference. I know some people have been quoting my quotewalls and it's totally cool if you break them down and take out the bits you're not responding to/interested in). I keep forgetting to say that, so now I've said it.

Where did you say it was alignment indicative?

[Deras]

Deras: I've already given out three townreads, they haven't changed and you should know where you and carey stand.

The people I haven't given reads on:

Yeah sorry, I meant on those you hadn't.

The good news is that Scum can't NK me or I'll flip, so if there's a Doc it throws the choice "IC or Towniest, who will Scum kill" right out the window.

I don't like this reasoning, I feel like you're setting up an excuse because you KNOW you won't be NK no matter what.

129: Comes after several people have given reads, and doesn't really cover much new ground (if any). In one sentence accuses me of going after easy targets while staying off of the... easy... targets? SEEMS LEGIT.
Seriously, ask yourself: Who are the easiest targets in this game? Carey and Deras, right? Who's been going after them again? JUST SAYING. JUST. SAYING.
132: Who goes easy on someone acting scummy? SCUM

Unless I'm misinterpreting this, the second point seems to contradict the first, on 132 you're arguing against ff for going easy on me because of perceived scummy behaviour, but in the first one you said going after Carey and me was the easy (and thus scummy) thing to do?

[Deras]

Yeah, I'll sigbet anyone, the Scum are in {AT3, fff, Fro, Deras}.

What sort of terms are involved in such a bet?

I believe a sigbet means whoever loses changes their signature to whatever the person who wins wants.

[Eye Urn]

And I probably should say something about Fropome's explanation of 33/35. I remember now that I initially had read it as being somewhat in jest because of the mention of the metaphorical IC hat. When GM blew it up into a major controversy, I totally forgot about that reading. Also, the joke was pretty bad when written out as it was nonsequentially and seemed far more like a legitimate misunderstanding. An actual skit where someone said one line after the other might have been decently funny, but that flipped majorly.

[fferyllt]

Yeah, it depends on the mod. Tracey's cool with them probably because she walls often. chk is a pretty brief player, so I'm guessing he doesn't see the need or else they pissed him off for some reason.

I'll go through the rebuttal to my case on you probably tomorrow, I'm kinda tired and there's quite a bit that I saw to respond to.
I can do this one off the top of my head: I found 39 and 50 slightly Town-indicative until I meta'd you, and when I said "I think it is alignment indicative" I kind of expected a Town!you to go "really? How so?" but you didn't. At the time I felt you were Town so I kind of shrugged it off, but it makes more sense from a Scum alignment.

Answers aren't enough. I need reactions.

I have to echo GM's "huh?" at this.

My reply to her didn't make it clear?

How about this from my second game to finish? That post provoked a couple pages worth of reactions and interactions, and resulted in my getting a town read on the player I quoted in that post. When the interaction started, I thought he might be scum.

[Deras]

Alarm bells going off now. Justifying your active lurking with "I don't know what kindof behaviour is scummy" is worrying, mainly because if you were town, you wouldn't particularly care if you were scummy because you'd know you were town. Obviously you wouldn't want to be mislynched but you get my point. There are 56 posts before this and you felt you couldn't get involved in some sort of replying because you didn't know if it was scummy? Being over-cautious has made m feel very uneasy with you.

Regarding this, my meaning was more of a "I'm don't see any of YOU as scummy, so I don't think I have anything worthwhile to contribute". It hadn't ocurred to me that verifying town was as important as hunting scum, but I'm trying to rectify that.

[Eye Urn]

Yeah, it depends on the mod. Tracey's cool with them probably because she walls often. chk is a pretty brief player, so I'm guessing he doesn't see the need or else they pissed him off for some reason.

I'll go through the rebuttal to my case on you probably tomorrow, I'm kinda tired and there's quite a bit that I saw to respond to.
I can do this one off the top of my head: I found 39 and 50 slightly Town-indicative until I meta'd you, and when I said "I think it is alignment indicative" I kind of expected a Town!you to go "really? How so?" but you didn't. At the time I felt you were Town so I kind of shrugged it off, but it makes more sense from a Scum alignment.

Answers aren't enough. I need reactions.

I have to echo GM's "huh?" at this.

My reply to her didn't make it clear?

How about this from my second game to finish? That post provoked a couple pages worth of reactions and interactions, and resulted in my getting a town read on the player I quoted in that post. When the interaction started, I thought he might be scum.

Ok, now I understand what you meant.

[Deras]

In post 45, goodmorning wrote:
In post 35, Fropome wrote:
I thought the meaning of my posts was pretty clear? Maybe that IC hat has fallen in front of your eyes.
What would you say town's job is?

Bit defensive, this.


Not at all, not when there's possibly three scum tells in your post.

@Fropome, could you please clarify what scumtells you saw in GM's post back here?

[Eye Urn]

The good news is that Scum can't NK me or I'll flip, so if there's a Doc it throws the choice "IC or Towniest, who will Scum kill" right out the window.

I don't like this reasoning, I feel like you're setting up an excuse because you KNOW you won't be NK no matter what.

Completely brand-new argument from Deras that I didn't see anyone else type out (but was certainly in my head). Deras moves up significantly in my eyes.

[fferyllt]

I'd also like for someone else to compare my first game to this one so far, and see if you agree with GM. I may be the individual least aware of exactly what my scum game consists of, but to me, there is very little resemblance between my play in this game and in that one.

It's pretty much horrifying, in fact, since I was making no effort at all to even emulate my town game there. That game was a blank canvas.