Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

Actually, GM, how about some specific similarities in my play between the two games?

[Deras]

I'd also like for someone else to compare my first game to this one so far, and see if you agree with GM. I may be the individual least aware of exactly what my scum game consists of, but to me, there is very little resemblance between my play in this game and in that one.

I just skimmed throught that one since it's sunday night and I'm sleepy but one thing that caught my eye is how much talkative you are in this game, you have 61 posts already in this one while it's still Day 1, whereas in your scum game you had 127 posts overall (including some after the game ended).

I think that willingness to talk, as long as it's actual discussion which I believe you have, is a protown since a scum talking that much would give themselves more chances to get caught (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I'll do a more thorough comparison tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

Yeah, I want to sleep on this too.

Thatt huge disorganized "case" was such a huge lot of work that I want to think it's more likely to be a town player's product than a scum player's work. As scum, I would have built the mos tight, succinct, consistent, comprehensible case I could manage. Not some huge rambling WoT.

But, what I'd do as scum, and what others may do as scum are not always identical, or I'd have no trouble spotting scum in most games.

[CareyHammer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eye Urn


Yeah, AFK for the next 48 hours.

Terrible post. You better explain why you made this vote.

In fact, I expect an absolutely stunning post from you when you return, otherwise I'm switching my vote to you because there is 0 excuse for your behavior so far.

Sorry, spring break hit right when this game did, so I've been a little overwhelmed.
Give me some time once school starts back up.

[CareyHammer]

I have 10 pages to study

[CareyHammer]

Carey feels most scummy of the rest having only made one post with effectively no content, and if he truly sucks at Mafia perhaps he'll do better as scum to not post much; as such, he's next on my list of lynch candidates for now.

ok, I'm back. let me catch up. I do care about this game, just finished another elsewhere, so this one has my attention now. Was just trying to say "hi, i'm here" not lurking, just posting no content.

What's the difference between lurking and posting no content? In terms of usefulness to town, there isn't any - and the latter is much more likely to be scum in my experience. Plus, it's over 7.5 hours later, and you've given us nothing. I'm not liking it. I'm not going to bother changing my vote since it's still early and I already have my vote in a very good place, but without Deras you'd definitely have my vote for this. Both of you need to start contributing real discussion.

Re: GM/Frop and posts 33/35

Re: Carey

I'm totally shocked. I expected to wake up this morning and see him actually have posted something of substance much like Deras eventually did, but instead I see nothing. And I don't see this as a mere policy lynch. An hour after he says AFK for 2 days, he posts another absolutely worthless comment. What was he doing in that hour? If he was away from the game, why did he come back after an hour when he said he'd be gone for 2 days, and why did he post such meaningless drivel after that hour? It seems to me that even if he doesn't really have much interest in the game (even though he once said he does), he's actively avoiding trying to discuss anything at all - presumably because he can't come up with anything to say due to an inability to play scum effectively. He's doing the absolutely worst kind of pseudo-lurking of posting once a day and not even bothering with a few gameplay related comments. If his level of involvement so far is truly the only thing he's capable of due to other commitments, he should be replacing out. By actually wanting to stay in the game with his level of involvement so far, I definitely expect to see a massive amount of commentary the next time he manages to get on.

I've posted no content because I've been spending my time in San Francisco partying all week. I dont appreciate you counting the hours since my last posts. What have I been doing for 7.5 hours? I've been living real life. You should try it sometime. It's just a game and we have weeks before deadline. Don't be totally shocked by my inattention to you. You sound like a whining little child. Give me some time to actually read the thread and you will have some content from me. I'm also trying to mod Risk, Craps, and Blackjack, and play a few games of chess all simultaneously so forgive me if i can't be posting here 24/7.

My play has been absolutely null. Nothing scummy or townie about it. So whoever voted me so far is just parking on an easy target because they suck at scumhunting.

Yes, I said it. You suck. Get off my case.
Jesus Fv(k!n6 Christ.

[Revenus]

I'm gonna get to the 800 pages since I've last posted, but first I want to do this

Vote:Careyhammer

Terrible. Replace out instead of whining like a child if you're still not going to contribute. The very fact that you won't while busy screams to me that you want to be in the game contributing nothing.


To whoever made excuses for CH; You said that carey might just be doing this to get his newbie games out of the way? He's the other SE. Don't make excuses for him. Minor scumpoints for whoever said this.

[CareyHammer]

OMGUS!

Did you not hear me say that I am on spring break?
Who has time to read 321 posts while on V/LA?

I am not replacing out.
If you mislynch me, you only have yourselves to blame.

Damn it, I want to play.
Only I haven't had the time to even get started.
Carey will shape up, dont worry about me.

Sorry for the abuse, but everyone is so demanding.
Look at you, Mr. 16 post count.

What is the vote count now?

[Mac]

I'd also like for someone else to compare my first game to this one so far, and see if you agree with GM. I may be the individual least aware of exactly what my scum game consists of, but to me, there is very little resemblance between my play in this game and in that one.

I just skimmed throught that one since it's sunday night and I'm sleepy but one thing that caught my eye is how much talkative you are in this game, you have 61 posts already in this one while it's still Day 1, whereas in your scum game you had 127 posts overall (including some after the game ended).

I think that willingness to talk, as long as it's actual discussion which I believe you have, is a protown since a scum talking that much would give themselves more chances to get caught (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I'll do a more thorough comparison tomorrow.

Question for you Deras: do you think the increase in posts

could be

a change to throw people off the meta=scum argument? I mean, if fferyllt was scum, she'd probably try and play a completely different game to the last time, no?

[Revenus]

I'd also like for someone else to compare my first game to this one so far, and see if you agree with GM. I may be the individual least aware of exactly what my scum game consists of, but to me, there is very little resemblance between my play in this game and in that one.

I just skimmed throught that one since it's sunday night and I'm sleepy but one thing that caught my eye is how much talkative you are in this game, you have 61 posts already in this one while it's still Day 1, whereas in your scum game you had 127 posts overall (including some after the game ended).

I think that willingness to talk, as long as it's actual discussion which I believe you have, is a protown since a scum talking that much would give themselves more chances to get caught (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I'll do a more thorough comparison tomorrow.

Question for you Deras: do you think the increase in posts

could be

a change to throw people off the meta=scum argument? I mean, if fferyllt was scum, she'd probably try and play a completely different game to the last time, no?

To add onto this; meta arguments are really only valid if the person isn't aware that their behavior is this way.

That being said, I really don't think scum fferyllt would have double the posts of the next highest poster in the game.

[fferyllt]

Post count is not a good way to differentiate my scum game from my town game. I can and usually have posted a ton when I am scum.

[Revenus]

Ok, so I'm trying to catch up with the pages I've missed and all I'm going to say is that the quote walls are really disorienting.

If you guys think someone is scum, it doesn't really help to try to convince that person that they are scum. The quote walls are really hard to follow and really aren't doing much to convince me of either of your cases (fferylt/goodmorning)

Let's see;

I love 157 by fferylt. How anyone isn't townreading this guy is beyond me.


And then just quotewalls thrown back and forth. If I get anything significant from these I'll let you guys know, but again, trying to convince each other that the other person is scum is distracting IMO.


pedit: You're also towny in other ways, and in general, I haven't played a game with scum who leads in post count.

[Revenus]

Look at you, Mr. 16 post count.

All of my posts have content. None of yours do. If I could double vote you I would.

[Revenus]

One thing fferylt; please slow down on the quote walls with goodmorning. If you can, can you summarize a case on him? The speed at which you and him are interacting is really making it hard for me to catch up on the argument. You guys have about half the posts in the game combined.

[Fropome]

Alright. Fro:
1. What are the scumtells you think you saw in my post 33? (I know I didn't ask you this, but at least one other player did, and it involves me, so close enough.)

I outlined them to fer, I've recounted them since, most recently to Eye on the very pagebefore you posted this load of shit. You are not reading my posts, as evidenced by the fact that you keep on misdirecting what I say.

2. Why do you think my 90 looks flaily?

Because that's what flail looks like.

3. Explain what about 35 wasn't an overreaction.

I love the way you premise your questions with your own fake assumptions included.
It was sarcasm about your post. Read it, you'll see two sarcastic statements, one about the meaning of my posts being clear, and one about your failure to understand. I get it made you sore or w/e, but your emotional response is your own reaction.

4. Do you agree with ffffff's reasoning (125) in light of my responses (137)?
AND SOME NEW ONES WHILE YOU'RE AT IT

Problem with your responses is most of them are none responses. yes I pretty much agree with ffer. This is one of those things which happens in mafia, people agree with each other's statements.

5. Where are you seeing defensiveness?

6. Explain what about 35 wasn't an overreaction and actually make sense instead of trying to spout some garbled bullshit about sarcasm.

If you can't recognise sarcasm, I can't help you. Calling it bullshit doesn't make it so, anyone can read for themselves (apart from you, apparently).

Also here's what really strikes me wrong on Fro: he asks a question or makes an accusation, I respond, then he never mentions it again.
ONWARDS TO CASE LAND

Some of your responses are hardly worth pursuing, I'm not interested in exchanging WoTs with someone who uses language so dishonestly as you do.

I'll take your sig bet!

[Fropome]

eta, 5 - the whole dishonest redirection and reformulation of what has been said, the dismissal of the obvious, you're either scum, or just pathologically dishonest.

[Fropome]

The main thing that is bothering me about Fropome is his apparent lack of paranoia about me.

Lol, I pretty much got what I wanted to see from you quite early on. I'm slightly paranoid, but I know if you're town you're an asset and I'm giving it more time for that to develop. Later in the game I may start to get more paranoid, but for now there are scummy players around and you don't look like one of them.

Also his followyness wrt my analysis of GM. Though, due to timing I may not be leaving much unturned ground. Also, I was misremembering, thinking there were more "^^This" type posts than there actually were, and he does appear to have some analysis of his own that isn't a reprocessing of what other people have said.

There are a couple of things I need to mull over here, I think

I agreed re: gm, mot follow. And come on, I prodded this exchange into life with GM after you were initially quite satisfied with the townyness of his post. That made me a little paranoid, but then you "sheeped" my read about GM's read of you and that too made me wonder, but for now my point was relevant and valid, and your agreement/recognition is what I would expect anyway.

[Fropome]

In post 45, goodmorning wrote:
In post 35, Fropome wrote:
I thought the meaning of my posts was pretty clear? Maybe that IC hat has fallen in front of your eyes.
What would you say town's job is?

Bit defensive, this.


Not at all, not when there's possibly three scum tells in your post.

@Fropome, could you please clarify what scumtells you saw in GM's post back here?

Before you even asked:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4825759
Since you asked the first time:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4830708

[fferyllt]

One thing fferylt; please slow down on the quote walls with goodmorning. If you can, can you summarize a case on him? The speed at which you and him are interacting is really making it hard for me to catch up on the argument. You guys have about half the posts in the game combined.

I think my iso is a good summary:

125[/post and [post]126

The post Deras made highlighting her "scum won't dare NK me" thing also was interesting. I actually made a similar statement when I was last scum. Someone pointed out to me that in the prior scum game I'd played about 6 months earlier I'd made an almost identical statement.

Town point-wise, as I said last night, the sheer time and effort involved in that WoT case looks like something town would do more than scum would. I'm reading one of her scum games this morning to see how her case-building in it compares to that post.

[fferyllt]

The main thing that is bothering me about Fropome is his apparent lack of paranoia about me.

Lol, I pretty much got what I wanted to see from you quite early on. I'm slightly paranoid, but I know if you're town you're an asset and I'm giving it more time for that to develop. Later in the game I may start to get more paranoid, but for now there are scummy players around and you don't look like one of them.

Also his followyness wrt my analysis of GM. Though, due to timing I may not be leaving much unturned ground. Also, I was misremembering, thinking there were more "^^This" type posts than there actually were, and he does appear to have some analysis of his own that isn't a reprocessing of what other people have said.

There are a couple of things I need to mull over here, I think

I agreed re: gm, mot follow. And come on, I prodded this exchange into life with GM after you were initially quite satisfied with the townyness of his post. That made me a little paranoid, but then you "sheeped" my read about GM's read of you and that too made me wonder, but for now my point was relevant and valid, and your agreement/recognition is what I would expect anyway.

I guess it's my turn to be the paranoid one then :/

[CareyHammer]

Check my meta, I'm completely insane!

Anyway, still waiting for a vote count.

[goodmorning]

Town point-wise, as I said last night, the sheer time and effort involved in that WoT case looks like something town would do more than scum would. I'm reading one of her scum games this morning to see how her case-building in it compares to that post.

Effort isn't correlated with alignment.
I've experimented a bit with different types of case-building, but I think the chronological ISO type is what I've been doing most recently.

And the playstyle thing I'm talking about is kind of ethereal? Honestly it's kind of embarrassing because I'm usually an extremely logical person, but it's just kind of a gut thing. And when I say gut, I mean that there's probably something actual that is the same but small and not something I'm conscious of. And it wouldn't matter what you were emulating because it's sort of a foundational thing? I'm kind of rambling in the incredibly weird ~woo~ sort of area, so I'll stop now. If it's unclear... it is unclear and I have no idea what else I can say to clarify.

There was one thing I think saw but I've forgotten what precisely it was now. If I have time tonight after getting to the 2 pages of posts that have popped up I'll go back and reread that game again to try and find it.

@Carey: I agree that you're a waste of a lynch. I also agree that your slot is being wasted. This game is moving incredibly fast for a Newbie, IMO. I would encourage you to replace out for the simple fact that reading this game is going to take up all the time you have for it, and posting content will fall by the wayside. There are other games, and they need replacements all the time. I'm sure you could find one that would suit you better than this (though I suppose the mod wouldn't be as supercool as Tracey).

@Rev: You're somewhat right about the quotewalls. That said, making cases and pointing out to people things that you think are scummy is how you play the game, how you get them on your side to lynch the player you think is scummiest. Please don't try to keep people from playing just because quotewalls inconvenience you.

@Eye: Terms of the sigbet are few:
If I'm right, you have some sort of signature about how cool I am for some length of time (a week is probably more than enough, sigs are a pain)
If I'm wrong, I have some sort of signature of your choice for some length of time (again probably a week, but it mustn't be too vulgar)
If either of us ends up Scum, the bet is rendered void (because betting when you know the outcome is no bet at all)

@Fro: You're pissing me off. Good news is your playstyle is beginning to remind me of another I've come across before, so that's one thing.

If anyone is curious, I have

actual basis

(!) for playstyle comparisons. It netted me scum here, where I compared SafetyDance to a different player I was familiar with, Zaicon. Some people just play very similarly. (And this is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about foundational play, though in this case I was able to pick out a specific thing: types of questioning.)

Geez, even when I quickpost I wall.

[goodmorning]

Also I'm still waiting to be put at L-1. As a high scumread for so many people, it's extremely interesting that my wagon is being useless.

Though no-one's mentioned it, the wagon stalling would in my opinion be the biggest and only scumtell against me right now.

(IC STUFF: If this happens to you, and you are Town, try and figure out why your wagon is stopped. It may be helpful to you in determining who the scum are if you look for motives first.)

UPDATED READSLIST:

Town

Mac
Fe
Carey
Rev

Null

Deras (technically he's null-leaning-Town)

Null

AT3
Fro
ffffffff

Scum

[fferyllt]

"It's woo, it's gut, it's ethereal". Awesome case. Nothing to dispute.

Jesus.

If you are town you should go stand in a corner or something. Horrible.

[Eye Urn]

Ok, since GM didn't comment on this, I'll ask quite directly, and offer anyone the chance to answer:

Why would player A ask player B about player B's read of player A and only player A?

I cannot come up with an answer that satisfies me other than player A is scum and is trying to gauge how well they are coming across.

Back to work for now.